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While I can see the theoretical advantages of pooling resources and distributing the work load, I must admit that the social aspects of a commune-style living arrangement makes my flesh crawl. I'm way too much of an independent introvert to ever be able to live in close confines with more than a couple people... and by close quarters, I mean within a quarter mile. Even living in the middle of my 80 acres with just my husband, I still need a corner of the house to myself and still get aggravated by new neighbors moving in around us (we used to have the whole square mile to ourselves). If I had to live in a dorm, or even in a personal hut, surrounded by others and have communal baths and kitchen and recreational space... well, I'd probably ram a fire poker through my eye before the end of the month. But that's me... the social aspects far outweigh any resource benefits from my perspective.
However, we are a part of a mutually-assisting community out here, a very loose federation of mostly self-reliant independent homesteads spread out hither and yon through the boonies. Folks who need social interaction can hang out in the Trading Post or Roadhouse to chat or attend the various functions organized at the community hall; but no one thinks poorly about the folks (like us) who only come in for fuel and mail. The more extroverted folks live closer into the village proper, the more introverted folks are on the fringes and outskirts. Everyone knows that they only need to ask for help to receive it and we all do things for each other as we're able and watch out for each other. Folks who are "slackers" and "users" don't get tolerated for very long.
Federation....I like that word....I like it alot...
You don't hear it applied much to communities in the U.S...or Canada...or anywhere else...except on Star Trek...
You have just added a word to my vocabulary, in regards to communities...
'A Federation of communal communities'...nah...
'National Federation of Communes'....nah...
'Federation of independent dwellers'...hmm...maybe....
I don't understand why some of you all are so impressed with the Soviet Union...
When I think of communes or mountain communities...I'm thinking more on the lines of Grizzley Adams...remember that show...?
Or even 'The sound of music'...how they had that palace in the Swiss Alps, maintaned by a maid....
I'm thinking more in the lines of how people use to live during frontier times...and I don't think there was anything Soviet Union about that...
In order to be a Soviet Unionist, you have to have an ideology to go with it...(I hardly doubt 20-30 people living together are going to start mass producing tanks, and make plans to take over the world, as I've mentioned before)
There is no ideology in the community I want to build or be a part of...
Just people living together, who want to be together, on land, or in a lodge ect ect,
and simply slowing down the modern day pace of life...
so you can once again breath, enjoy the morning, the sunset...get back to basics...
Modern day life just scoots you along so fast...no time to take in things...
I want quality again...most of us have been seperated from the things that really make you happy in life...
What all these have in common is that they imply several smaller independent, autonomous units joining forces to achieve a common goal... but doesn't necessarily imply that those units give up their autonomy or independence just because they are part of the larger unit, or that they (must) act together in any other interest.
That's where I think the commune idea fails, or at least falls short. The common implication of a "commune" is a multitude of people living and working together in close confines organized as a single interdependent unit. This means that you have to have some sort of well-defined structured law/regulation and enforcement, community resources/buildings/services, financial and effort accountancy, and the development of some sort of politics or hierarchy... these all have a certain amount of overhead costs that drain time, effort and money from productive projects. While you may reap the benefits of economy of scale and returns to scale in the short term, eventually you will run into the law of diminishing returns and other diseconomies of scale (such as the above-mentioned increased "management" overhead). These are the benefits and drawbacks of centralization.
However, a (con)federation/alliance/coalition of autonomous units within a given clustered area with common self-interests join forces through agreement to achieve common goals. This is often more sustainable and less invasive. You have nearly zero non-productive overhead since each unit remains autonomous outside the pact or treaty -- there is no need for additional legislation/regulation, law enforcement, judicial systems, upper management, non-productive community buildings (city hall, etc) or large accounting systems. Communal resources (usually big ticket items) are obtained and used through agreement, and only for that resource (like, say, a tractor that everyone can use). The economies of agglomeration are less drastic and less immediately apparent than those of scale, but the diseconomies are also less apparent and less potentially catastrophic with proper planning and growth control. These are the advantages and disadvantages of distribution.
Last edited by MissingAll4Seasons; 12-21-2011 at 07:28 AM..
What all these have in common is that they imply several smaller independent, autonomous units joining forces to achieve a common goal... but doesn't necessarily imply that those units give up their autonomy or independence just because they are part of the larger unit, or that they (must) act together in any other interest.
That's where I think the commune idea fails, or at least falls short. The common implication of a "commune" is a multitude of people living and working together in close confines organized as a single interdependent unit. This means that you have to have some sort of well-defined structured law/regulation and enforcement, community resources/buildings/services, financial and effort accountancy, and the development of some sort of politics or hierarchy... these all have a certain amount of overhead costs that drain time, effort and money from productive projects. While you may reap the benefits of economy of scale and returns to scale in the short term, eventually you will run into the law of diminishing returns and other diseconomies of scale (such as the above-mentioned increased "management" overhead). These are the benefits and drawbacks of centralization.
However, a (con)federation/alliance/coalition of autonomous units within a given clustered area with common self-interests join forces through agreement to achieve common goals. This is often more sustainable and less invasive. You have nearly zero non-productive overhead since each unit remains autonomous outside the pact or treaty -- there is no need for additional legislation/regulation, law enforcement, judicial systems, upper management, non-productive community buildings (city hall, etc) or large accounting systems. Communal resources (usually big ticket items) are obtained and used through agreement, and only for that resource (like, say, a tractor that everyone can use). The economies of agglomeration are less drastic and less immediately apparent than those of scale, but the diseconomies are also less apparent and less potentially catastrophic with proper planning and growth control. These are the advantages and disadvantages of distribution.
Are you a college Proffesior?
I will have a much more substantual response once I read up on all those terms and figure out how to incorporate them into my grand scheme...
Yes, Federation is a cool word, and a cool concept. So are Alliance, Coalition, and Confederation....
-- there is no need for additional legislation/regulation, law enforcement, judicial systems, upper management, non-productive community buildings (city hall, etc) or large accounting systems.
Methinks what most people would like is a government servant, but wound up with a government master. And it likes to justify asking / taking more revenues by any means it can.
Let's say if government was limited to only securing rights, and nothing else, then it would be minimal, at most. And much more tolerable.
jetgraphics just put an idea in my head I forgot to mention...
One day...Prisons structures, will become fortresses to keep the bad out...
The utilization of Prison buildings will be reversed...and instead of keeping bad people in...they will be utilized to keep bad people out...
Prisons are some of the most secure, safe modern day forts out there...
They offer great security, in the future, those with resorces will realize that...
And people will flock to get inside of prisons, for protection...they're like castles....
That's just a bit of congective prophecy though...
Prisons will one day be safe havens, for those trying to hide....
Wanna hear a funny story about this photo?
I took this photo while in Wyoming a few months ago...when I drove...
I was at a truck stop...bored, and decided to just go treking through the desert...
Well I thought I was in the middle of nowhere when after I climbed a hill I came upon this prison...
My first thoughts were 'Oh my gosh, a prison in the middle of the desert, what if they think I'm an escapy or something...??
What if they send patrol out to capture me...mistakingly thinking I escaped or something?
So after I took the photo, I worked my way back to the truck stop....
There's lots of hidden things in the deserts that most don't know about...
I love the desert landscape...and many don't realize how much of the SW and parts of the NW are desert...very beautiful terrain....
But I do believe one day prison facilities will become fortresses to keep the bad out...their built perfectly for that...
One day...Prisons structures, will become fortresses to keep the bad out...
Seeking sanctuary in high-security prisons and military bases has been explored in several post-apocalypse/zombie movies.
Even back in the day when fortresses were more commonplace, they were nearly always heavily fortified military posts or prisons (or both!). While we have romantic representations of fortified villages housed within walls snugged up against a castle, very few fortresses were actually designed that way. The few castled fortresses that did exist were only fortified because it was the governmental seat (i.e. the ruler of the land lived there), therefore the military that served them and the prisons were they held offenders were also housed there.
No, I just read a lot and am interested in production theory and the implications of human nature on complex systems, especially as it relates to modern industrial method.
Basically, how humans, plants and animals aren't orderly, interchangeable machines; so all the nifty theories that political/industrial theorists try to apply to society and living organisms just don't really work the way they are supposed to
No, I just read a lot and am interested in production theory and the implications of human nature on complex systems, especially as it relates to modern industrial method.
Basically, how humans, plants and animals aren't orderly, interchangeable machines; so all the nifty theories that political/industrial theorists try to apply to society and living organisms just don't really work the way they are supposed to
Well since your willing to be my friend...I'd like to share this photo with you also...that I took on a top secret military base in New Mexico...
It's Air Force 1...well the retired version...actually it's Air Force 2...flown in by Al Gore...he was the last active Vice President to use it before they retired it...
I wasn't really suppose to take photos, but did not care...and now that I know longer work for this particular company...don't care at all...
But i did blur out other odd missle stuff next to the plane...just to be safe...
Last edited by Time and Space; 12-21-2011 at 08:22 PM..
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