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General Patton, in his march through Europe, remarked that fixed fortifications are a monument to the stupidity of man. Everyone, on nearly every survivalist board, has the exact same idea: Go to the boonies and hunker down in your SuperBase. My question I seek to present to everyone in this thread is has anyone given any thought to the idea of staying mobile? My plan has always to buy myself an Army puptent and a bicycle and stay on the move. Canada in summer, Texas in winter, anywhere there is water and space.
Everyone is so willing to make themselves sitting ducks. Is there any credence to the idea of staying mobile?
General Patton, in his march through Europe, remarked that fixed fortifications are a monument to the stupidity of man.
I think you misunderstand the context of Patton's view. No one worships Patton more than I, except possibly Al Haig (whom I also worship).
Patton was speaking of field fortifications during the age of mobile warfare. In that context, Patton is absolutely correct. In the distant past, fixed field fortifications made perfect sense. In the not-to-distant past, let's say around the advent of the cannon/mortar, fixed field fortifications were not as useful, but still provided a base from which to conduct operations in your Zone of Control. In the age of mobile/motorized warfare, fixed fortifications are totally useless.
In the post-Apocalyptic/post-Armageddon world, mobility doesn't provide much of a threat, and so fixed field fortifications make sense, provided they are used properly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizzles
Everyone, on nearly every survivalist board, has the exact same idea: Go to the boonies and hunker down in your SuperBase.
That's good, because those people will die, and you won't have to expend any effort or resources to eliminate them.
The idea of running off to the boonies is totally insane. No one is going to accept or even tolerate "outsiders," so fleeing to the boonies is a death penalty, unless you happen to have some rare unique talent that no one else possesses.
Hunkering down in their bunker or basement is another incredibly stupid idea. They'll emerge 9-12 months later, pasty-white, near blind from the Sun, and with all the strength of an 8-month old baby. There won't be anything to hunt because (depending on population density) everything within 30-150 miles will have already been hunted to near extinction. They won't be able to farm because they don't have enough people to farm and to do the other chores and tasks that are necessary, so they starve to death and die.
They won't be able to join with any other groups either. There'll be a lot of resentment by those who actually lived through "it" and who were putting their lives on the line to protect others and make things happen. The basic sentiments would run along the lines of "Well, you were too good to get your ass in the grass with the rest of us, so take a flying freaking hike." Plus, most communities will already be settled and probably at max capacity, leaving no room for the bunker pukes. And then of course, the obvious distrust. How do you know they aren't spies trying to infiltrate and gather intelligence for a group of thugs who are just waiting to roll in and take over?
And of course it totally defies Allee’s Law, which states that for humans, there is both a positive correlation and relationship between individual fitness and either the number or density of individuals. This can be simplified to the old adage that there is safety in numbers. Humans and animals gathering in groups for protection diminish the threat that each individual faces from a predator. An individual bird that is attacked has only a 5% chance of survival; with several other birds those odds increase to 75%; and with a very large number, say 50-100 birds, the chance of survival increases to 99%.
So birds and their bird-brains are smarter than your basement/bunker pukes. How sad is that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizzles
My question I seek to present to everyone in this thread is has anyone given any thought to the idea of staying mobile? My plan has always to buy myself an Army puptent and a bicycle and stay on the move. Canada in summer, Texas in winter, anywhere there is water and space.
Everyone is so willing to make themselves sitting ducks. Is there any credence to the idea of staying mobile?
That just won't work.
You would die of starvation within a short period. Most small rural communities will have organized and set up borders, check-points and patrols, and they will be hostile to outsiders and trespassers.
If you're anywhere near an urban area, you'll be constantly dodging thugs.
During a Nuclear Winter scenario, whether by volcanic eruption or asteroid strike, the military will be active early on, and will restrict movement. Nothing like having a drone up your ass.
The best thing to do is as I suggested on another thread here, and that is assess the carrying capacity for your county, to see how many people are going to die, examine your geographical location to see if threats exist from high density urban areas, and then judge accordingly.
As I demonstrated, many counties that have small populations have decent carrying capacity, so the die-off will be marginal, and if people work together, they can survive.
However, I also proved that many counties, even with small populations, have low to no carrying capacity, and so they will struggle and probably not survive.
In high density population counties, such as were I live, the only hope is to take control of what farmland, orchards and live-stock exists and protect it from being destroyed by others.
If you are talking about becoming a refugee, my strongest advice is DO NOT.
Refugees will stand the highest risk of being killed. Having a fixed base -- in the right place -- increases your survival odds tremendously. Whether you set up your own retreat or join someone else's group, you're going to need that community around you. You'll also need the time to become familiar with the roads, the neighbors, the land topography, the waterways...which will be impossible if you're on the road all the time.
One other thing. Being continually on the road, away from home or any fixed base, can be very stressful for most people. Add to that the high stress level inherent in any unstable situation, and we're talking nosebleed stress! And then...what do you do if gas is difficult or impossible to get?
I moved a lot as far as my home and the only thing I want is 1 good home where I can set some roots and truly belong to. It can be soo tiring and I dont have the oppurtunity to immerse myself into things other people like to do. I dont think any shtf scenario changes that. The post shtf could be more permenent besides.
There will be so many soft targets that a well fortified spot will be passed by. Don't expect a Patton or a Rommel to mount an attack on your collection of dry beans or my MRE's.
Not just mental and emotional stress, but actual physical stress.
As many calories as it takes to settle, protect, and take care of a homestead, the calories expended by someone on the move will be far, far more. It's one thing to walk for a day - or even to hike a trail for a week - in balmy temperatures and calm weather. It's another thing entirely to feed yourself while it is raining for that week, or while it is cold, with wet snow putting out your campfire and soaking, then freezing, everything you own.
If you really like Patton, check out the part in the movie where it shows the soldiers marching and leaving bloody footprints in the snow. They at least eventually succeeded, with strong leadership, a definitive direction, superior arms and strategy, and a goal of being able to rest in towns where they had defeated the enemy (if they were lucky enough to live that long) or have a hot meal at last. Someone alone, or even with a small group, constantly on the move will have no such opportunity or goal to envision. Or you could even watch The Grapes of Wrath, about the families who traveled with California as a goal for their land of 'milk and honey'. (I suggest movies because so few people with fantasies of survival have ever actually done it, or done without, for any length of time, and sometimes pictures help.)
Too many people think that they can always find water or food, all they have to do is to start walking. Unfortunately the reality is the same as the Joads discovered - by the time you get there, someone else already owns it - and if you are lucky you might get slave wages to help them work it. If you are unlucky, you'll end in an unmarked grave...and, exhausted, starving, dehydrated, wet, cold, and miserable, you might get to the point where you would appreciate the latter.
I think you have to be mobile to a point. Possibly not the travel 20 miles a day mobility, but quite possibly within a 2-5 mile radius of your base. Depending on where you are established, resources may not be readily available. Obviously if you are near a larger urban center, the first order of business may be to organize before the need arises to extend your search area. If the SHTF, tourism will be passe and the need to see the country will probably take a back seat to security and comfort.
I think you have to be mobile to a point. Possibly not the travel 20 miles a day mobility, but quite possibly within a 2-5 mile radius of your base. Depending on where you are established, resources may not be readily available. Obviously if you are near a larger urban center, the first order of business may be to organize before the need arises to extend your search area. If the SHTF, tourism will be passe and the need to see the country will probably take a back seat to security and comfort.
If you plan on forting up and it's a bad enough SHTF deal you'd better be able to maintain this amount of movement! OP/LP's, roveing patrols, ambush patrols, movement in force. all will be the rule of the day!!!
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