Michael Bunker? (coyote, room, ground, doctors)

[ChrisC]

Interesting. I don't know either of you. I do know that there is always two sides to a story.

I guess all one can do at this point (not knowing any of the specifics to the "story") is hope that things work out best for both of you.

[Preacher717]

I lived in the community Bunker and Sifford rule over and I would have to agree with Christian Woods aka Johnboy1970. The problem with dealing with Bunker is his hypocrisy and lies. He says one thing that seems right on yet his actions do the oposite. He makes an agreement with you and then changes it and cannot recall the orignal agreement.

Bunker is a very intelligent man but lacks character, the Off Off Grid book is pretty good, it is one of the reasons I went and bought land out in his and Sifford community. But, what I found was not what I read, I found oppressive dress codes, mandatory meetings, fines for not wearing a hat or leaving a gate open. How much you ask? Hows $100.00 if you guest comes on your property and forgets to close the gate?

It was a very hard and disappointing experience mainly due to Bunkers hypocrisy and laziness. Did you know that he has to go to a hotel when he writes. Pretty off off grid don't you think?

The one thing I would like to say regarding what I learned from Bunkers life and off grid living was what not to do! When I went to build a pig pen, I looked at his and ssaw how not to do it, also with the chicken coop and gardening. He watered his garden by running a gas powered water pump for 3 to 5 hours a day. I developed a gravity water feed system that required 1/2 hour of running time a month on my water pump. It cost me around $2500 to build it. He went on line after I explained how mine worked and first tried to raise $4000.00 to build one then it went to $10,000.00 and finally ended up at $40,000.00 to build one.

Did you know i lived full time in the community for just under a year and had a shower, Bunker has been there 7 or so years and still has not built one. Curious isn't it? I have seen hundreds of empty bottles of booze come out of his office building when they were cleaning out a room. You would think he could slow down on the cigars and booze and buy the material for a shower to bless his wife and children.

Bottom line Bunker talks a good game but lacks the character to pull off what he started.

[glad he is gone]

My husband started listening to the Michael Bunker Radio Show in July 2012. He then started downloading past sermons off of the web site (there are hours of them on the site) to his MP3 player and listened to nothing else and became an obsession! He became very reclusive and stayed by himself, listening to the sermons over and over and was drinking heavily. He also became very verbally abusive, stating that I was the worst sinner God had ever seen and Micheal Bunker had led him to see the light. I am a christian woman and feel I was a good wife. He left our homestead we had built together the first of this month to join Michael Bunker's cult. When Paul sent an email telling Bunker he was ending our marriage and wanted to repent and be moving to the cult, Paul received an email back from Michael Bunker stating that he was glad to hear it and offered to help in any way he could.He left me with all of the chores, snow removal, critters ect. to take care of. We had dreams for our small homestead in the middle of nowhere, but he said that Michael Bunker opened his eyes and he needed to move to the cult and repent. I wish him the best!

[ChrisC]

Originally Posted by glad he is gone

My husband started listening to the Michael Bunker Radio Show in July 2012. He then started downloading past sermons off of the web site (there are hours of them on the site) to his MP3 player and listened to nothing else and became an obsession! He became very reclusive and stayed by himself, listening to the sermons over and over and was drinking heavily. He also became very verbally abusive, stating that I was the worst sinner God had ever seen and Micheal Bunker had led him to see the light. I am a christian woman and feel I was a good wife. He left our homestead we had built together the first of this month to join Michael Bunker's cult. When Paul sent an email telling Bunker he was ending our marriage and wanted to repent and be moving to the cult, Paul received an email back from Michael Bunker stating that he was glad to hear it and offered to help in any way he could.He left me with all of the chores, snow removal, critters ect. to take care of. We had dreams for our small homestead in the middle of nowhere, but he said that Michael Bunker opened his eyes and he needed to move to the cult and repent. I wish him the best!

I'm sorry to read of this. But I have to say that your husband probably had some problems to begin with. I've read most of Bunker's material, his "homesteading stuff" (which I have enjoyed the most), some of his religious stuff (I have some disagreements here), and his fiction (which is usually quite entertaining). But, after reading all of that stuff, I haven't lost my marbles yet.

Folks need to learn how to be able to read everything from the bible to the constitution to the communist manifesto to stephen king, and glean that which is useful while discarding that which is harmful. Too many people do not have the ability to do this. Then you get Jim Jones type situations.

I happen to agree with much of Bunker's ideas on "homesteading/lifestyle philosophy," but just because I do, it doesn't mean I have to become a zombie. One still has to think for oneself, no matter how appealing a given lifestyle may be. And no man is a god.

Good luck with continuing your own path to liberty. Not to sound like a jerk, but it sounds like you will probably be better off without him. You need someone that is 100% into what you want to accomplish through your own efforts. Not someone ready to traipse off, looking for Nirvana.

[glad he is gone]

thank you so much for your support. He actually wanted me to take a second mortgage on our homestead, so he could give the money $30,000.00 to Michael Bunker when he arrived.

[=^..^=]

Originally Posted by ChrisC

If you had, say 60 acres of land, and were able to have just enough surplus from your labors on the land to pay the taxes, but otherwise you had all your basic needs provided for by your land, yet it was labor intensive and largely the lifestyle of the 1870s, would you do it?

No. I don't believe it's even possible in this day and age. Also, who wants a life of drudgery from sun up to sun down? That's existing, not living.

Keep in mind, you'd not need anything from the store. You wouldn't need money.

So when your clothes wear out you go naked or wear animal skins? Where do you get free ammo to hunt? Who pays the Dr when you get sick? The taxpayers?

You wouldn't need to "make a living" in the system. Yet what you would need to do is far more labor intensive. All your basic needs are taken care of (by you), BUT you have no electricity, no refrigeration, no AC, no auto.

That sounds crazy to me. Why would anyone choose to go back in time like that? He sounds like a loner, someone who either dislikes other people or can't deal with them. What would his point be?

No dependency on anything besides your own labor. Water comes from your well. Food comes from your barnyard, canning, drying, fermenting, and your root cellar. Heat comes from the wood you chop from your wood lot (NO chainsaw, only a bucksaw, ax, and wedge). The hardest labors come from your team of horses. You have no need to ever really leave your land for anything except some emergency. Of course, you'll never fly to Paris. You'll never hang in the mall. You'll never bull**** around the water cooler. You'll never polish your Lexus. You'll never catch the latest movie. You'll never do what we're doing right now--surf the internet. You are free from our system, but by the same token you are excluded from it.

Still willing?

I truly believe there has to be something wrong with a person to want and to choose such a life of endless drudgery. As for the Amish, even they have some kind of life and do things together to make life more interesting. They also have gas fridges and some other modern things to help make life easier.

And that is an encapsulation of where this guy is headed.

I think he's either a man in need of some serious therapy or he's full of male bovine excreta looking to sell books to preppers.

[=^..^=]

Originally Posted by ChrisC

Once that happens, folks who have no real reason to do it will do everything they can to throw a monkey wrench into your plans.

Unless children were suffering and the/or the animals abused or neglected, why would they? That makes no sense.

On the other hand, I could see the general population finding some lame excuse to call in the feds. It has happened before.

Call the Feds for what? To complain you live without electricity and running water? That's not a Federal offense. It's not illegal. That makes no sense either. Why would the general rural population care if you used an outhouse and bathed in a basin? They wouldn't know nor would they care.

I think the thing to keep in mind here is that there is a spectrum of self-sufficiency. We are all somewhere along that spectrum. Maybe we even have multiple parallel prepping universes or prepping astral planes or something. And I know most folks here say "do as you like"... while at the same time giving reasons it's impossible, impractical, or too hard. But as I said, it's not impossible because it's about 99.9% of human history.

But they lived in family GROUPS. In clans, so it was possible. They weren't one person trying to survive on his or her own. Are you planning to take some family members with you?

We wouldn't be here today if it were impossible. And please note, I'm saying it's POSSIBLE, not that it's easy and cushy like we are all used to these days. Grrrrrr.

Start taking clothes-making courses.......

[=^..^=]

Originally Posted by Nor'Eastah

But somebody here has to say it: hard work does not kill you. Hard work makes you live longer. Nobody else in either of their families lived as long as they did. Scott outlived his own son John Scott by many years.

I read years ago that they lived that long not because of hard work alone, but because they ate healthy foods (no junk or fast foods) and they didn't smoke. They weren't obese and they got plenty of exercise.

[ChrisC]

Originally Posted by glad he is gone

thank you so much for your support. He actually wanted me to take a second mortgage on our homestead, so he could give the money $30,000.00 to Michael Bunker when he arrived.

Well... you know the old saying about a fool and his money. Luckily, you didn't fall into the fool category there. When someone wants to start outright giving (what I'm assuming to be) large, otherwise important, sums of money for a "cause" like that... that generally spells trouble.

[=^..^=]

Originally Posted by ChrisC

As I've said in every post here, we all think differently. We all have different motivations. I think it takes a certain personality type to even aspire to such things. Obviously I have that defect--quite introverted, very nearly a misanthrope... but don't worry, I'm gentle as a lamb. No Unibomber here. Just into that little-cabin-way-out-in-the-middle-of-nowhere thing...

I suspected this. But you have to consider other things as well. What happens if you get injured or really sick and have no phone? Do you lay there and die? No wife (or anyone) with you? What happens when you hit 65 and have no social security check to live on - and can no longer chop your own wood, butcher animals, pull weeds etc? Are you depending on society to take care of you then?

What I'd really like to see here is some reference or link to others practicing this lifestyle who are successful (Of course, they won't be on the internet if they are purists), or well on the road.

And you're willing to give up TV, the radio, your phone and your computer?

There are some. This guy (OP reference) seems to be plugging along pretty well. I also know of a (religious) group here in Utah that do pretty well out in the middle of the desert. They, however, use some modern technology. There are more out there, I'm sure.

Note the word GROUP! That makes all the difference in the world.