Keeping cool in soaring temps, without air conditioning (natural, winter, panel)

[newenglandgirl]

Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming

I'll just add some information on dealing with extreme heat.

First, drink cool water in large amounts. Some of use may remember when the Marine Corps. was known for hot weather hikes during which most of the trainees collapsed. It was considered a mark of weakness or bad endurance. They still have those hikes today but a far higher percentage of the recruits complete them successfully. The reason is that they are overhydrated. They are required to drink very large amounts of water. I don't recall the exact amounts but at least a gallon is reasonable. Force yourself.

If your cat starts panting on a hot day he's in trouble and very likely to have a heat stroke.. Cats do not pant as dogs do in normal conditions. Get your cat into the coldest water immediately and cool him off. Use a shower or bathtub if one's available. No, they don't like it but it will save their lives.

If a dog is digging in his water dish or showing any sign of distress do the same. Get him into water immediately.. It's a sign of a coming heat stroke.

If a person stops sweating and his skin becomes hot and dry get him into a cold bath. Dump ice into the water if you have it.

Heat stroke requires immediate attention. It's fully as dangerous as a heart attack or a stroke.

In 1995 Chicago experienced a long and extreme heat wave in which more than four hundred people died. Most were elderly. Many had air conditioning but had refused to turn it on; some wouldn't even open wwindows or use fans which are useless in extreme heat. Many were afraid to open windows because of fear of criminals. Many, however, complained about the cost of using air conditioners and were known to have said they couldn't afford to run them. They saved their money but now they're dead. I'm sure that some considered artificial cooling to be bad for some reason. Few if any realized the danger of extreme heat.

Thousands of small animals died. Just as their small bodies chill quickly in cold temperatures they heat up more quickly than a person's in hot temperatures.

A heat wave is not the time to show how natural and healthy you are unless you're prepared to die. Cool off. Make everyone drink immense amounts of water and protect your animals. If you take a Red Cross first aid course you'll learn this and more. They're cheap. Forget what the clerk at the health food store told you about air conditioning hurting the immune system. That's nuts.

Four hundred people don't die from the cold in Chicago every winter. The number is probably single digit or barely above. It's far easier to get warm than to cool off. Extreme heat is far deadlier than extreme cold.

First of all, good points all, especially about drinking water. My son's a builder and when you're working in the heat you need tons of water. But everyone else does too.

Second, no "clerk at the health food store" advised that air conditioning is hurting the immune system. It's general knowledge among those who attempt to live more naturally that artificial conditions lessen our human ability to adapt to our environment as it changes in the event that we no longer have these artificial conditions.

My point was not to argue whether or not to turn on the air conditioning, nor its benefits. Since this is the survival and preparedness forum, I would assume everyone on here is not only putting by food and supplies but are also preparing in other ways, such as potential environmental and economic disasters that will not keep us in some protected cushy living room environment artificially controlled at 60 degrees in searing summer heat.

So sure, we should all make ourselves comfortable as we see fit. And we should know how to survive outside our comfort zones, and perhaps not remain so dependent on luxuries we take for granted in the event we find ourselves without them.

People lived for thousands of years adapting themselves to extreme weather conditions and only the foolish, unfortunate, or uninformed suffered or died. Even today there are those who do not have access to air conditioning. So any tips outside of an air-conditioned environment would be welcomed, at least to me.

[newenglandgirl]

Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming

Humidity has the worst of both heat and cold. It makes hot weather feel hotter and cold weather colder. You can find maps showing humidity and those showing length of growing season. If you want pleasant weather avoid the humid and the long growing season areas. These places (and I am deadly serious) make the hottest summer days in Utah seem delightful in comparison. I suggest a trip back east at this time of the year. You'll come back with a new appreciation for Utah.

We've had 100 degree weather here in New England in June, and it may get worse in July and August, not only here but all over the country. I have also lived in Missouri, twice (in St Louis and mid-Mo). Certain days one would not go outside and stay outside after 9:00 a.m. or before 8:00 p.m. You just adapt. You find ways that work for you, with or without air conditioning. Just like living in a place like Phoenix in 110 degrees. You know when to do certain things and when not. You learn how to keep your body cool, and in the case of emergency or disaster you find out ways of surviving. The Native American Indians have a lot to teach us and there's lots to read on native plants, herbs, etc that cool the body. No one who is informed needs to get heat stroke and die. The ones who have it the most difficult are those who live in inner cities surrounded by blacktop, in walkup apartments with little or no air conditioning. Not everyone lives on a farm. In a widespread blackout it would be wise to know what to do, in any season.

News today: http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/30/us/ext...html?hpt=hp_t1

[Happy in Wyoming]

Originally Posted by newenglandgirl

Since this is the survival and preparedness forum, I would assume everyone on here is not only putting by food and supplies but are also preparing in other ways, such as potential environmental and economic disasters that will not keep us in some protected cushy living room environment artificially controlled at 60 degrees in searing summer heat.

It's very difficult to predict an environmental disaster and there are all sorts of different disasters. I've made preparations that I believe are reasonable. If an asteroid this planet or the Yellowstone caldera blows there's really no suitable preparation. Not even Cheyenne Mountain could withstand a near hit. The Yellowstone caldera would almost certainly not blow unexpectedly. Given the amount of monitoring there would likely be months to leisurely pack and evacuate.

Buit to move into the realm of the far more likely, why should we plan to reduce our standard of living? I'm not. The preprations for financial disaster (we're now in the midst of one) are very straightforward as are preparations for a long power failure.

Originally Posted by newenglandgirl

So sure, we should all make ourselves comfortable as we see fit. And we should know how to survive outside our comfort zones, and perhaps not remain so dependent on luxuries we take for granted in the event we find ourselves without them.

We're not comfortable outside our comfort zone by definition. The preparations are again straightforward and any intelligent individual can learn what he must in technique. Have you?.

Originally Posted by newenglandgirl

People lived for thousands of years adapting themselves to extreme weather conditions and only the foolish, unfortunate, or uninformed suffered or died. Even today there are those who do not have access to air conditioning. So any tips outside of an air-conditioned environment would be welcomed, at least to me.

First, we do not adapt to extreme weather conditions. Our biology limits us and almost every other species to a very narrow range of survivable temperatures. See the Lundin book listed below.

I gave you ample information to survive in my last post. If you're really interested in learning more buy books on desert survival and wilderness medicine. Oh yes, stay out of the sun. That last sentence is not flippant. During Chicago's killer heat wave a jogger in a black sweat suit collapsed and died. We might call her foolish.

Those who have backup generators should have a backup to that, perhaps more than one, for critical use. If I were in the humid east where I can't cool off adequately with evaporative cooling one generator would be dedicated to an air conditioner during a dangerous heat event. A backup room air conditioner is also essential. You might have a problem with your central air.

Here's a low-tech solution. Fill your bathtub with cold water and lie in it. Cover your head with a wet washcloth. You will need to refresh the water. Furthermore you'll need to be careful to avoid hypothermia. If you have no running water or no bathtub use a pond or creek. This technique will definitely keep you alive if not very comfortably. No preparations are required if you have running water, a bathtub, and a washcloth. But if you wish to prepare for a water failure store extra water. It's easy to store a thousand gallons in even a small house. I rarely mention what I have; but I will say that I store plenty of water.

Remember this. Redundancy can avoid problems. It's much easier to not deal with a problem than to deal with it, even succssfully.

I can recommend all of the following books. Easterners need to make do as I know of no books on swamp survival and humid heat is certainly more dangerous than dry heat. The Lundin book treats both heat and cold; it's one of the best survival books I've ever read. Medecine for Mountaineering goes far beyond first aid.

These books are in my library.

Amazon.com: Medicine for Mountaineering: And Other Wilderness Activitites (9781594850769): James A. Wilkerson: Books

http://www.amazon.com/The-Ultimate-D...esert+survival

Amazon.com: Desert Survival Skills (9780292704923): David Alloway: Books

http://www.amazon.com/98-6-Degrees-K..._bxgy_b_text_c

[Nor'Eastah]

Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming

Buit to move into the realm of the far more likely, why should we plan to reduce our standard of living? I'm not. The preprations for financial disaster (we're now in the midst of one) are very straightforward as are preparations for a long power failure.

I congratualte you, Happy, on having the guts to call this "economic downturn" what it really is. It is a financial disaster, and the sooner some of the "snoozers" on this board wake up and realize what is going on, the better. I have posts in several threads, outlining what is really happening and its causes, only to have someone skip over my post as if it weren't there, and continue with the previous chatter. Those who do not investigate, research, and understand that we're not in a "recovery", will find themselves with a far reduced standard of living. Perhaps they should be preparing now, to live without air conditioning!

Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming

We're not comfortable outside our comfort zone by definition. The preparations are again straightforward and any intelligent individual can learn what he must in technique. Have you?.

Good observation. In my case, I maintain that living in a far-northerly latitude will enable me to sidestep air-conditioning, which is far more power-consuming than simply heating the place in winter, by wood. But just for the hail of it, I'm bringing 2 new A/C units up north with me!

Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming

First, we do not adapt to extreme weather conditions. Our biology limits us and almost every other species to a very narrow range of survivable temperatures.

Boy, you got that one right! Those of us with ancesters from cooler climates understand this from childhood. There was a good reason why they sent astronauts into orbit, and to the moon, in special space suits. They would have fried on the spot, or frozen solid, without artificial surroundings. There are places right here on earth that are not habitable by man, without special equipment. We should not assume that all humans (presumably same species) have the same comfort zones, or would survive in the same latitudes. I would need a space suit to survive in TX or AZ!

Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming

Those who have backup generators should have a backup to that, perhaps more than one, for critical use. If I were in the humid east where I can't cool off adequately with evaporative cooling one generator would be dedicated to an air conditioner during a dangerous heat event. A backup room air conditioner is also essential. You might have a problem with your central air. Remember this. Redundancy can avoid problems. It's much easier to not deal with a problem than to deal with it, even succssfully.

Right again. Not only 2 powerful air conditioners, but 2 powerful generators, and plenty of fuel to power them!

[AK-Cathy]

Here's something we did when our car A/C died in the middle of a long trip in 100+ weather. First of all it was pretty miserable but we were smart about human physiology and there was no ill effect for any of us in the car, admittedly all young people. The car A/C went out early in a trip from Colorado to eastern Kansas and we found that it couldn't be fixed on the road (lots of little towns) and it was a Subaru (in the 70s) and we all had jobs that we needed to get home to and 300+ miles to go under blazing sun to get home.

We soon found that keeping the windows rolled down was creating more problems than it solved as we were getting too dehydrated and not cooling as we expected. Our plan was to stop at every small town, spaced roughly 20 miles apart and buy great big drinks, a jug of water, jugs of juice and rubbing alcohol. We kept the windows rolled up until we were covered with sweat and rolled them down long enough to dry off then up they went. Up and down, up and down. We drank most of our liquids and stopped at the next town. When we'd get too miserable we'd break into the rubbing alcohol and mop it on pulse points and opened the windows. It felt great. I read aloud (poor radio reception back then) to distract us from the misery. Ironically the book was Gone With the Wind, which has a similar reading aloud for distraction passage. We got home at sundown, tired, hot, sticky, desperately in need of showers but no worse for the wear. Given all that we drank there was surprisingly very little urinating.

Part of being able to withstand heat of course is acclimatizing to it. Just like being in Alaska all these years has adapted me physically to deal with cold. Because we have been snow-birding for 5 years, I have lost some of that ability. Coming home through the Rockies in northern Canada every spring I feel the loss. Folks up here call it "thicker blood". I don't think that thick blood is the physiology but there is an adaptation just the same. My brother and his family moved from interior Alaska to central Georgia and they said the first year was the worst. After that they acclimatized.

I'm serious about the trip if folks have the means or ability to do it. When we finally leave Alaska (which I dread) we plan to snow-bird in reverse. We will take our travel trailer and visit those cooler northern, north coastal and mountainous areas that we just pass through on our way south during the height of summer when one is mostly stuck indoors by heat anyway.

BTW, the loss of appetite is adaptive. Your body knows best. Eating nutrient dense foods like high glycemic level carbs that will spike the metabolism and high protein and fatty foods that will keep it there, is counterproductive. Cooling foods like most vegetables are better summer fare.

Good topic.

[scarlet_ohara]

Originally Posted by SCGranny

High heat and high humidity usually means crops grow far faster and with far less watering - of course, it also means that rot and mold are problems. I used to have a year-round garden in SC - my problem was things growing that I didn't want there! So High heat and high humidity are not all bad.

Depends on where you were. We are having a typical 3 day heat wave for this time of year. Today is 100 and humidity is 40. Yesterday was 102, humidity was 55. Along the coast, and in a few other parts, humidity ranged in the 70s-80s. Typical humidity here is 30-40%. However, that is still unpleasant but preferable to some of the other parts. In the absence of rain, daily watering is required in all but the permaculture areas. We don't have year-round gardens in these parts.

Generalizing too much leads to misconceptions and that is why I mentioned the possibility of microclimates in MO. I am no longer acclimated to such high levels of humidity or to days on end of 100+ temps that some parts of MO and bordering states experience. Folks shouldn't go by what others say too much anyway. They should do their own independent research which is more reliable than what folks say. Take into account maps like Happy linked to, but also look more closely because those are very generalized.

Heat is heat as far as I'm concerned. People who defend the 100-110 in AZ say, "But it's dry heat."

Um, yeah. I say heat your oven up to 100-110, then open it up and stick your head in it and see how that feels. That is dry heat too.

[Jrsygrl51]

Originally Posted by scarlet_ohara

Depends on where you were. We are having a typical 3 day heat wave for this time of year. Today is 100 and humidity is 40. Yesterday was 102, humidity was 55. Along the coast, and in a few other parts, humidity ranged in the 70s-80s. Typical humidity here is 30-40%. However, that is still unpleasant but preferable to some of the other parts. In the absence of rain, daily watering is required in all but the permaculture areas. We don't have year-round gardens in these parts.

Generalizing too much leads to misconceptions and that is why I mentioned the possibility of microclimates in MO. I am no longer acclimated to such high levels of humidity or to days on end of 100+ temps that some parts of MO and bordering states experience. Folks shouldn't go by what others say too much anyway. They should do their own independent research which is more reliable than what folks say. Take into account maps like Happy linked to, but also look more closely because those are very generalized.

Heat is heat as far as I'm concerned. People who defend the 100-110 in AZ say, "But it's dry heat."

Um, yeah. I say heat your oven up to 100-110, then open it up and stick your head in it and see how that feels. That is dry heat too.

Too true!

[newenglandgirl]

Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming

It's very difficult to predict an environmental disaster and there are all sorts of different disasters. I've made preparations that I believe are reasonable. If an asteroid this planet or the Yellowstone caldera blows there's really no suitable preparation. Not even Cheyenne Mountain could withstand a near hit. The Yellowstone caldera would almost certainly not blow unexpectedly. Given the amount of monitoring there would likely be months to leisurely pack and evacuate.

Just perhaps.

Buit to move into the realm of the far more likely, why should we plan to reduce our standard of living? I'm not. The preprations for financial disaster (we're now in the midst of one) are very straightforward as are preparations for a long power failure.

Not expecting you to deprive yourself of anything you want and need and have. Financial and food preparations are major, but not the entire preparedness pie.

We're not comfortable outside our comfort zone by definition. The preparations are again straightforward and any intelligent individual can learn what he must in technique. Have you?.

Apparently, there are different notions and plans about survival in extreme conditions. Knowing how not to be dependent on our usual comforts is one of the first steps imo.

First, we do not adapt to extreme weather conditions. Our biology limits us and almost every other species to a very narrow range of survivable temperatures. See the Lundin book listed below.

Unfortunately we as a species may have devolved rather than evolved in terms of being able to naturally adapt to extreme conditions. If our biology limited us, I don't think any of us would be here today. Those of us who cannot adapt without technology, if technology should fail us due to any number of reasons, will simply die off.

I gave you ample information to survive in my last post. If you're really interested in learning more buy books on desert survival and wilderness medicine. Oh yes, stay out of the sun. That last sentence is not flippant. During Chicago's killer heat wave a jogger in a black sweat suit collapsed and died. We might call her foolish.

i don;t live in the desert, nor do I do foolish things if I can help it.

Those who have backup generators should have a backup to that, perhaps more than one, for critical use. If I were in the humid east where I can't cool off adequately with evaporative cooling one generator would be dedicated to an air conditioner during a dangerous heat event. A backup room air conditioner is also essential. You might have a problem with your central air.

You might have a problem with getting gas (found that out in last year's emergency).


Here's a low-tech solution. Fill your bathtub with cold water and lie in it. Cover your head with a wet washcloth. You will need to refresh the water. Furthermore you'll need to be careful to avoid hypothermia. If you have no running water or no bathtub use a pond or creek. This technique will definitely keep you alive if not very comfortably. No preparations are required if you have running water, a bathtub, and a washcloth. But if you wish to prepare for a water failure store extra water. It's easy to store a thousand gallons in even a small house. I rarely mention what I have; but I will say that I store plenty of water.

Good idea.


Remember this. Redundancy can avoid problems. It's much easier to not deal with a problem than to deal with it, even succssfully.

I can recommend all of the following books. Easterners need to make do as I know of no books on swamp survival and humid heat is certainly more dangerous than dry heat. The Lundin book treats both heat and cold; it's one of the best survival books I've ever read. Medecine for Mountaineering goes far beyond first aid.

These books are in my library.

Amazon.com: Medicine for Mountaineering: And Other Wilderness Activitites (9781594850769): James A. Wilkerson: Books

http://www.amazon.com/The-Ultimate-D...esert+survival

Amazon.com: Desert Survival Skills (9780292704923): David Alloway: Books

http://www.amazon.com/98-6-Degrees-K..._bxgy_b_text_c

Good titles.

[ChrisC]

Originally Posted by newenglandgirl

...Those of us who cannot adapt without technology, if technology should fail us due to any number of reasons, will simply die off...

We've thrown this around a bit here, and I generally agree with you. In fact, there have been more than a few arguments here because I pretty strongly agree with you.

But we have to be a little careful about becoming too "binary" in our mindset. I'd prefer to say that if modern technology failed us... not just technology failed us. Because if we just say ALL technology as a blanket statement, suddenly we're standing in a cave with some sticks, stones, hides, and possibly a fire.

The way I think of this is more along the lines of (for example), what if the backhoe we depended on to dig that ditch were suddenly permanently unusable (all of them!)? Well, if we know how to use a shovel, we will spend a lot more time on the ditch, but we can still get the job done. But, that shovel is still "technology." The question is, is it more likely we have (or can develop) the skills to craft some sort of shovel on our own, or is it more likely we have the skills to build/machine a backhoe on our own, drill the oil well on our own, refine the fuel on our own, manufacture the plastic and rubber parts on our own... you get the picture. It's a matter of simple technology vs complex technology. But it's all still technology. If, in that situation, we can keep it simple and low-tech, we have a better chance of keeping some semblance of livable conditions.

Or farming: are we going to depend on our ability to make fuel (assuming we can't purchase it) for our tractor to plow that field, or do it by hand/draft horse/oxen? Which are we more likely to be able to do without our modern technological support system? At the risk of taking some flak, I maintain it's the latter. Sure, you need some level of technology to use and maintain a team of horses on a farm; but it's at a lower technological level (maybe we could call it an "artisan" level) than using/maintaining a tractor with no fuel or spare parts. Given time, I can craft a double tree or a set of reins with only primitive resources (compared to what we have today), but I'm certainly not going to craft a gearbox or fuel refinery on my own with primitive resources.

Anyway, sorry, I just wanted to point out that we may not mean "technology" in a universal sense in this context.

[SCGranny]

Originally Posted by scarlet_ohara

Depends on where you were. We are having a typical 3 day heat wave for this time of year.

Just FYI, in SC, what you describe is considered LOW humidity; the norm - winter and summer - is 85-100% humidity. And that - without precipitation.