What a nightmare! (lake, water, barn, homestead)

[QuixoticHobbit]

Originally Posted by ChrisC

Hmmm. Interesting. Rather surprising, since Utah is supposedly one of the most conservative states in the union. Sometimes the liberal statist tendencies here disturb me, and generally come as somewhat of a surprise.

Why surprising? Conservatives tend to want to control and monitor everyone's lives, not liberals.

[Happy in Wyoming]

Originally Posted by QuixoticHobbit

Why surprising? Conservatives tend to want to control and monitor everyone's lives, not liberals.

You are half right. You'd be completely right if you said that both wish to monitor people's lives. I'm libertarian and a Ron Paul supporter and voter. But since I can't have that world I do prefer conservatives. The things that they wish to monitor and suppress are of far less importance than what liberals want to monitor and suppress. Conserrvatives are at least willing to leave my guns alone and take less of my money.

[Think4Yourself]

I like home gardening because my wife and I want to know what we're feeding our kids and doing it ourselves is one way to absolutely control that, we pack a bit extra away just in case of a power outage or a natural disaster (nothing like some of you people here though) and I like having the tools and materials I need on hand just in case I need them but that said... Working yourself into a fright over a bad dream doesn't seem very sensible to me. It comes off as slightly irrational.

Surely there are better things to worry about which will allow you to put your efforts to more practical effect?

[ChrisC]

Originally Posted by QuixoticHobbit

Why surprising? Conservatives tend to want to control and monitor everyone's lives, not liberals.

Really? How so? Is that why I'm going to be forced to buy a service against my will that I have no interest in? Is that why 90% of the taxes I pay is funding useless BS that I have no desire to fund? What you call "conservatives" is certainly the lesser of the two evils in my opinion. Neither side is truly interested in individual liberty, but the group you call "liberals" is responsible for the lion's share of the shackles around my ankles. Both groups are screwing us all good; one side just puts a bit more force into it and has a bigger smile on its face.

But then again, perhaps I didn't hear you quite right--it's hard to hear what you are saying over the rattle of your chains.

[Nor'Eastah]

Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming

You are half right. You'd be completely right if you said that both wish to monitor people's lives. I'm libertarian and a Ron Paul supporter and voter. But since I can't have that world I do prefer conservatives. The things that they wish to monitor and suppress are of far less importance than what liberals want to monitor and suppress. Conserrvatives are at least willing to leave my guns alone and take less of my money.

I still maintain that everyone is brainwashed who thinks there is any meaningful difference between the 2 parties. Certain "powers" want us all squabbling and fighting amongst ourselves over the big difference between elephants and jackasses. That way, we won't all be looking beyond Toto's curtain at who's really pulling the levers and switches. "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!"

[Mac_Muz]

Nor'Eastah, I agree, and question if it is worth the trouble to go vote....... Mitt and Obama are the same thing as I see it. I could go vote and write in Ron, but what for.

And then the popular vote won't matter much anyway.

Last year the Feds were all about voting home gardens out, and that news was short lived and forgotten, but it will come back to haunt us. I mean to say 'we' can't be growing food the FDA isn't aware of, and hasn't approved can we?

Grow foods with out paying taxes and with no Govt Controll??? Gasp ! That has to be heresy!

The way I see things WDC is getting to be more like the Soviet form of Govt.

[Think4Yourself]

Originally Posted by ChrisC

Really? How so? Is that why I'm going to be forced to buy a service against my will that I have no interest in? Is that why 90% of the taxes I pay is funding useless BS that I have no desire to fund?

I'm really not sure why people would say that as all of us will need health care eventually so insurance is something I would buy anyway and I believe that is true with most people. Just the cost of having our children justifies it. Also I seriously doubt 90% of the budget is "useless BS". Is national defense useless BS? What about social security or medicare? I honestly believe your 90% figure is a large exaggeration.

[Think4Yourself]

Originally Posted by Mac_Muz

Last year the Feds were all about voting home gardens out,

I do not for a second believe that. These are the types of lies and exaggerations you often find in partisan media but they are not factually based. Just like, around two years ago, some blogs claimed the President wanted to outlaw fishing... Only the claim was completely made up BS with absolutely no factual foundation in reality. I'm hardly an Obama supporter but I do like to at least keep my objections based in reality instead of fantasy; we should all do the same. There is enough real stuff to object about without blogs of questionable value inventing lies.

[ChrisC]

Originally Posted by Think4Yourself

I'm really not sure why people would say that as all of us will need health care eventually so insurance is something I would buy anyway and I believe that is true with most people. Just the cost of having our children justifies it. Also I seriously doubt 90% of the budget is "useless BS". Is national defense useless BS? What about social security or medicare? I honestly believe your 90% figure is a large exaggeration.

We disagree. You've made your conclusions; I've made mine. That isn't going to change. I'll just say that from the research I've done, the biggest factor in pathetically high medical cost IS the insurance (usury) industry. So how do we fix it, in all our wisdom??? With insurance!!! How intelligent! It's like fighting a gasoline fire by dowsing it with more gasoline.

How did people pay for their doctor fee before the insurance racket took over? Did they manage or did they just lay down and die? It seemed to work out for them before Al Capone's "protection service" was commercialized and nationalized. The doctor even came to see the patient in his/her own home much of the time. A fair fee for the service rendered was paid and that was that. Hell, if the patient didn't have enough to pay, the doctor would often barter for their services or product. Of course, that was before this nation went to hell. But it was even still a little bit like that when I was a kid. Mom paid the doctor when I went in for a visit and that was that. And it wasn't a huge fee, either. But then, there is no point arguing it here because it has been argued out 1000 times. You are a statist, I am not. That will not change no matter what is said--it's in our blood.

As for useless BS, anything beyond national security, protection of personal liberty, and a few other very basic infrastructure services is useless BS in my book.

And before you go and tell me how much better things are today (with all our insurance, social programs, technology, specialization, etc) than they were for our great great grandparents, why don't you explain why nowadays for the typical family, the mother and father BOTH are indentured to work 60 or 70 hour per week jobs just to keep their family afloat, whereas back in great, great granddaddy's time, the work may have been harder, but by-and-large financial solvency was achieved with only one income (and that was with the huge families they typically had), and quite often, granddaddy worked for himself rather than as a cog in some giant Leviathan? If you don't believe me, read some first-hand accounts of early America (observations, journals, etc)--the ones that were written before the revisionists poisoned our minds. As you read through some of that, make sure you understand that "making it" today means something far different than "making it" meant back then.

[Think4Yourself]

Originally Posted by QuixoticHobbit

Why surprising? Conservatives tend to want to control and monitor everyone's lives, not liberals.

I don't want to get into an ideological fight but it does strike me that (no matter which side says what) both side just love big government. They just want government to get bigger in ways they like.