Finishing the garage YOUR way.. (how to?) (quietness, water, good)
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I would like to transform our detached garage into a room.
It is kind of small as it was built in 1931..
Brick on three sides, metal roof.
Several years ago we put a regular metal clad door, and one window in the front.
We had an electrician put in 5 outlets and an overhead fan on the center rafter.
There is an old cement floor and we always have mice in there, and an occasional snake..
How can I (we) finish this properly, to not have mice, snake etc.. but mostly to stay warm in the winter and cool in the summer so I can utilize this space like a real room.
(we'd like to get a propane tank for heat rather than burn wood, in this instance).
The floor has only leaked once or twice only near the door in torrential rain.
Okay. What should I do next? I want to do it right so I bring it to this forum.
(that's a compliment )
Can you give a ballpark on your climate? Is it insulated?
Are the interior walls and the ceiling already finished?
Are you saying the concrete floor is all messed up? (Cracking, chunks missing...)
OK, enough questions. The first suggestion I have is for your finished floor. Not sure what sort of theme you want for decorating but garage floor tile works very nicely. Easy to install & keep clean, very durable and looks sharp.
Ours has been in place for probably 5 years now and after cleaning, it still looks like new. Oh, and we park 2 vehicles on it daily and have crappy winters so it does see its fair share of grime, salt...
First thing I would do if I wanted to use that as living space, would be to frame in some floor joists right on top of the cement (at least 2x6), and pour in insulation everywhere, using a vapor barrier both underneath and above the 2X's, then nail down a new subfloor. This is going to make an enormous difference in comfort, heat retention, and quietness in the finished space. To keep the critters out, first seal up any cracks in the concrete and do a thorough caulking job around the perimeter outside. Sprinkling diatomaceous earth around the outside should keep out soft-bodied critters like snakes. For mice, you might just want to throw down poison before building the under-floor.
As RyanR stated, insulated walls and a dropped ceiling with insulation above it will make a world of difference. Just a raised floor and insulation everywhere are going to turn that ex-garage into a comfortable living space.
A picture is worth a thousand words.
Can you give a ballpark on your climate? Is it insulated?
Are the interior walls and the ceiling already finished?
Are you saying the concrete floor is all messed up? (Cracking, chunks missing...)
OK, enough questions. The first suggestion I have is for your finished floor. Not sure what sort of theme you want for decorating but garage floor tile works very nicely. Easy to install & keep clean, very durable and looks sharp.
There's many mfgr's of garage floor tile but here's the brand we used. They have tiles or carpet. Garage Flooring Styles | RaceDeck
Ours has been in place for probably 5 years now and after cleaning, it still looks like new. Oh, and we park 2 vehicles on it daily and have crappy winters so it does see its fair share of grime, salt...
Here in Virginia we have winter, but more mild than our northern neighbors. It does dip into the single digits
once in a while. 15 or 17 degrees is not unusual for a week or so in January.
There is no insulation.. nothing is finished on the inside. The concrete floor has cracks but not seriously damaged.There is about a one inch height stepping up and through the entry door from outside to inside.
After we seal up the cracks I wanted to have more cement poured over the top (and here's why). Mentally it seems like it would seal out anything that crawl, (even the ants)... but if that's not really necessary, because it can be done another way, then let's forgo wasting time & money. Maybe just sheets of cement board, then the tile..
I may be doing projects out there that will not be carpet friendly (Painting, using glue, art stuff).... so, no carpet.
I checked out the tiles you mentioned.. oooh!! swanky! Thanks for sharing the idea.
First thing I would do if I wanted to use that as living space, would be to frame in some floor joists right on top of the cement (at least 2x6), and pour in insulation everywhere, using a vapor barrier both underneath and above the 2X's, then nail down a new subfloor. This is going to make an enormous difference in comfort, heat retention, and quietness in the finished space. To keep the critters out, first seal up any cracks in the concrete and do a thorough caulking job around the perimeter outside. Sprinkling diatomaceous earth around the outside should keep out soft-bodied critters like snakes. For mice, you might just want to throw down poison before building the under-floor.
As RyanR stated, insulated walls and a dropped ceiling with insulation above it will make a world of difference. Just a raised floor and insulation everywhere are going to turn that ex-garage into a comfortable living space.
Bear with me.. be kind, I am really listening and have an earnest capacity to do this.
>>>>> WHen you say "pour in insulation".. can you explain what poured insulation is?
also, if I nail down the sub floor over the insulation won't it poke holes in the vapor barrier?
The enormous difference you suggest is most definitely what it will take to make this garage comfortable.
Because it is brick and the long wall faces south.. sun on it for hours it gets like an inferno in there, (a brick oven....pizza anyone?).
Should we use a different caulk on the outside (weather-proof?) than the inside?
Should I use ordinary 2 X 6's .. or that green kind?
We had a black snake slither out of the garage a few weeks ago..(yuk.. it was 5 feet long)
DH took care of it for me. How wide do I make the path of the diatomaceous earth, in inches or feet?
Throw down poison for mice before "pouring in" the insulation? yes?
You sound very knowledgeable, and I will do everything to the letter, but I don't want to presume I understand unless I know what I just heard, thus the questions..along with my thanks. It ought to be quite grand in comparison to what it looks like now.
Bear with me.. be kind, I am really listening and have an earnest capacity to do this.
>>>>> WHen you say "pour in insulation".. can you explain what poured insulation is?
also, if I nail down the sub floor over the insulation won't it poke holes in the vapor barrier?
The enormous difference you suggest is most definitely what it will take to make this garage comfortable.
Because it is brick and the long wall faces south.. sun on it for hours it gets like an inferno in there, (a brick oven....pizza anyone?).
Should we use a different caulk on the outside (weather-proof?) than the inside?
Should I use ordinary 2 X 6's .. or that green kind?
We had a black snake slither out of the garage a few weeks ago..(yuk.. it was 5 feet long)
DH took care of it for me. How wide do I make the path of the diatomaceous earth, in inches or feet?
Throw down poison for mice before "pouring in" the insulation? yes?
You sound very knowledgeable, and I will do everything to the letter, but I don't want to presume I understand unless I know what I just heard, thus the questions..along with my thanks. It ought to be quite grand in comparison to what it looks like now.
Sorry , sometimes I lapse into guy mode, and assume people know what I'm talking about!
Yes, the poured-in type insulation (usually cellulose) comes in bags and is the cheapest way to go for floors and attics. It's hard to use in walls unless you get crazy with laths and such...that's where you use the batting-type insulation, which usually costs more! The "vapor barrier" I referred to in regard to the floor is not the type you find in batting. It's just a sheet of plastic, which you stretch across the floor joists before nailing down the particleboard (flooring sheets). The only nail holes would be directly over the joists, not into the insulation. Or, you can use a portable drill and screw them down, which is a better and less-squeaky idea! The reason I suggested plastic both above and below the joists is that concrete can get damp, and you want to keep that dampness out of your nice new room! You also want to protect the new floor joists from rot. You should be able to use regular 2x6's, not the green kind, which is treated to resist outdoor-type rot, and can smell kinda chemically . Diatomaceous earth can be bought in bags and poured around your building to about 2' out, if you wish. It really irritates the heck out of amphibians, reptiles, and soft-bodied bugs. If you throw blocks of "mouse chocolate" (poison) under the floor, that would help with the rodents, too. Definitely use exterior caulking on the outside, especially around doorframes, windows, and the base where mice usually get in. You can use either interior or exterior on the inside.
Hope I was some help...as I said, I can get just assume a lot!
We both speak english.. but really.. you do a much better job at explaining things!
I'll be showing DH your thoughts and get back to you if there are more questions..
THANK YOU SOOO MUCH!
Sometimes "poured-in" insulation is called "blown cellulose" if that helps anything... of course, you don't have to blow it in with a machine, you can pour or pack it in by hand.
For the cracked concrete floor, I'd just patch the cracks and spread a thin skim coat of the self-leveling concrete patching compounding across the floor to get a good surface. Then use a good concrete sealer or floor epoxy paint to protect the surface and stop water seepage (this acts like the bottom vapor barrier Nor'Eastah mentioned). These products are fairly inexpensive and way cheaper than repouring a floor. It might take a weekend or two to complete the project.
Then I'd go ahead and frame a new raised floor like Nor'Eastah, using pressure treated joists if you think the garage might flood/leak badly, or just regular lumber treated with a deck sealer/preservative if you think it might leak a little again. But depending on what finish floor you want, you may not even need to frame in a raised floor.....>>>>
You may want to consider using foamboard insulation on the floor and walls rather than fiberglass or cellulose... it forms it's own vapor barriers, it won't water-log or rot if it gets wet, it doesn't attract critters, and it has good r-value per inch. In VA, you could get by with 2-3" foamboard glued right to the brick & concrete with the proper construction adhesive so you wouldn't have to frame anything out, and you can glue your wall and floor sheathing directly to it. Then install a floating floor or vinyl/linoleum or carpeting on top of that subfloor. This saves you the trouble and expense of addition framing.
If you want to leave the ceilings open to the rafters for a more spacious feel, foamboard or spray urethane in the rafter bays and sheating on the underside of the rafters will give you the insulation you need on the roof. If you want to install a ceiling for heating efficiency, sheathing the current ceiling joists (assuming you have them -- some 1-story brick buildings don't) and insulating the loft (fiberglass or rockwool batts, blown fiberglass or cellulose are least expensive) should do the trick. If you want a ceiling and don't have ceiling joist you can either hang joists from the side walls, or suspend a ceiling from the rafters.
Depending on how much you end up raising the floor, and if you have the head room on the side walls, remove the doors and raise the jambs so that the new threshold is level with the new floor. It's a tripping hazard (and possibly a code violation) to open a door and have to step up onto the finish floor. Caulk really well around windows, doors and any wall infiltrations (cables, plumbing) to minimize drafts and critters.
Diatomaceous earth and borax should help significantly with the beasties. Make sure to keep the perimeter of the building clean and clear to help minimize welcoming hidey-holes, and keep attractive habitats like low shrubs and woodpiles at least 10' from it... especially for snakes and mice who don't like to travel out in the open. Likely, if you get rid of the mice, you'll get rid of the snakes
ETA: And consider adding a small porch roof over the door area, and proper gutters if you don't have them, to help eliminate the water problems after heavy rains.
Very great descriptions.. I can visualize it.
My husband has read all of the input.
Thanks everybody..
One eyebrow of his went up like a modified Scooby Doo head tilt.
He loved it too. You're the best peeps..
I'd send photo's if I could find that wire which is MIA
I'd ditto a lot of Missing's suggestions however finishing a space for use other than intended often creates it's own set of problems. Finishing this garage will be somewhat like finishing a basement. Though your space is above grade you have some water intrusion issues and a surround of masonry on three sides.
First you need to find out where your critters are coming from. I'd suspect the expansion joints and cracks in your concrete floor, masonry gaps in your brick, gaps where the brick and non-brick wall/floor joins or through your roof perimeter. Snakes and mice are able climbers and will exploit any hole, even one 10 feet or more above ground, especially if you have trees nearby. Find the gaps and holes and plug them up properly with tuck pointing cement in the brick, wood repair, brass wool, caulk and fine steel screening over any vent as needed. Don't assume that you are done if you find one hole. There are probably several to many in a building of this age.
The very first thing needed in a project such as this is to be sure that your envelope (exterior) of your building in in good shape so clear out around it and fix any gaps and the roof against weather and critters. Look at every surface, joint, eave, the roof itself and penetrations for cracks and gaps and get them tightly closed. Once that is done throughly clean the inside. Take a few weeks to get used to what the space feels like without the weather and critters coming in. This also allows you to check to see that you in fact have no more critters coming in. Take care cleaning those mouse infested areas as indicated by droppings so as not to stir up and subsequently inhale the dust from cleaning. Link regarding hantavirus with some precautions:
You mentioned water near the door. Is the grade of the ground sloping towards the building? If so you will want to correct that before putting any wood or insulation (even foam) anywhere to avoid a moldy mess even if it is just a few times in heavy rain. Solving this problem might be as simple as guttering on the roof. Whatever causes your water (or critter) intrusion fix it before finishing anything. You don't want mold and you don't want dead things under a floor or behind walls smelling up your craft room creating an unhealthy or worse unusable space.
Sadly none of what I am suggesting is fun or inspiring but as a serial remodeler I see way too many projects gone awry where folks have slapped often enough very nice finishings on top of improperly prepared surfaces only to have those unaddressed first steps come home to roost eventually wasting time and money and hurting resale terribly. Anything worth doing is worth doing right and success is normally 90% preparation, 10% application. Once you get all that done, come back and we'll talk utilities and finishes.
Good luck.
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pictures through words
, sometimes I lapse into guy mode, and assume people know what I'm talking about! 
The reason I suggested plastic both above and below the joists is that concrete can get damp, and you want to keep that dampness out of your nice new room! You also want to protect the new floor joists from rot. You should be able to use regular 2x6's, not the green kind, which is treated to resist outdoor-type rot, and can smell kinda chemically 
. Diatomaceous earth can be bought in bags and poured around your building to about 2' out, if you wish. It really irritates the heck out of amphibians, reptiles, and soft-bodied bugs. If you throw blocks of "mouse chocolate" (poison) under the floor, that would help with the rodents, too. Definitely use exterior caulking on the outside, especially around doorframes, windows, and the base where mice usually get in. You can use either interior or exterior on the inside.
