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I've got the "Foxfire" series of books so i know how to make black powder. Saltpeter can be extracted from urine and charcoal is easy to make in the backyard. But, I don't know where the nearest deposit of sulfur might be.
My Gamo Shadow 1000 .117 air rifle has provide many a squirrel for dinner. That would work but I have never seen a pellet mold.
Archery skills will prove better long term. Arrows can be made from easy to find river cane.
I find there is a bit of difference between book learning and hands on doing.... I have the same books, I have more books and i have a lot of links too, but so far my powders are not as good as i can buy.
Also books have a bad habit of being written by someone who read about doing something, and it turns out they never did either! This is why it took me 1 full year to make fire by bow drill.
I made a lot of smoke for a year, but never got flames... Then one day it dawned on me what was wrong..
As kids we would go to the drug store and pick up some potassium nitrate- a big can of old fashioned yellow sulfur...Go home find some nice and dry hard wood charcoal and make a batch of black powder...It was common back then.. You would prepare the stuff and experiment with test batches...if you want a fast burn or a slow one...you would adjust the amounts..till you got it right...as for using the stuff in a muzzle loader..It would be difficult to keep the quality high...The only experience I had with a black powder rifle was using a well made replica of a 50 caliber muzzle loader....It has a lot of impact and of course the size of the ball made things interesting...big boom- lots of smoke...lots of fun...As for a weapon....forget it..They rarely shoot straight and by the time you reload...it's to late.
I don't understand.....
"The only experience I had with a black powder rifle was using a well made replica of a 50 caliber muzzle loader"............................. "They rarely shoot straight"
Huh? A good gun will shoot dead straight. I know guys who shoot better than me and who can split a ball in a double bit ax breaking 2 clay pigeons..
I believe that in a time of extreme hardship only primitive weapons will still be able to work since all the ammo for (if they don't take all you modern guns away) modern weapons will be gone or in military only hands.
Both black powder and adult air guns can put food on the table as well as defend your home.
What say you?
Please no chest pounding false gun lover bravado since this topic is about how to carry on in a post apocalypse world. NOT owning several high power guns and automatic weapons.
Go elsewhere to discuss them.
Air guns? Forget it. There may be a few small game animals you can get with an air gun { rabbit, squirrel, a bird if times are really tough } but just not a good choice. Better than a rock, yes. But probly my last choice in weaponry. And defending your shelter and loved ones against marauders? LOL. If you come at me with a BB gun, all you're gonna do is p**s me off.
All you need for all the concerns you listed above is a simple, pump action, 12 ga. shotgun. Common type, so ammo is plentiful and readily available, not to mention cheap as all get out. You can kill a deer or other large game animals with it, as well as smaller game, and best of all, it will sit a threat on the ground in a heart beat, even with bird shot. Everytime you get paid, take $20 bucks, and go get a combo of bird shot and slugs for it. You can get about 30 rounds of bird shot for 8 bucks. Do this every month and by the time society crumbles, there is a good chance you'll have stockpiled enough ammo to last you until some semblance of civility within society has returned.
I think you're pretty safe as far as the Government is concerned to. They are looking to take away all the AR's, hi-cap mags, and so on, not the boomstick of the lowly duck hunter.
Air guns? Forget it. There may be a few small game animals you can get with an air gun { rabbit, squirrel, a bird if times are really tough } but just not a good choice. Better than a rock, yes. But probly my last choice in weaponry. And defending your shelter and loved ones against marauders? LOL. If you come at me with a BB gun, all you're gonna do is p**s me off.
All you need for all the concerns you listed above is a simple, pump action, 12 ga. shotgun. Common type, so ammo is plentiful and readily available, not to mention cheap as all get out. You can kill a deer or other large game animals with it, as well as smaller game, and best of all, it will sit a threat on the ground in a heart beat, even with bird shot. Everytime you get paid, take $20 bucks, and go get a combo of bird shot and slugs for it. You can get about 30 rounds of bird shot for 8 bucks. Do this every month and by the time society crumbles, there is a good chance you'll have stockpiled enough ammo to last you until some semblance of civility within society has returned.
I think you're pretty safe as far as the Government is concerned to. They are looking to take away all the AR's, hi-cap mags, and so on, not the boomstick of the lowly duck hunter.
I was going to make a nice long comment on how wrong you are, but instead I will just look at how foolish your post was and just keep my own piece of mind.
Air guns? Forget it. There may be a few small game animals you can get with an air gun { rabbit, squirrel, a bird if times are really tough } but just not a good choice. Better than a rock, yes. But probly my last choice in weaponry. And defending your shelter and loved ones against marauders? LOL. If you come at me with a BB gun, all you're gonna do is p**s me off.
All you need for all the concerns you listed above is a simple, pump action, 12 ga. shotgun. Common type, so ammo is plentiful and readily available, not to mention cheap as all get out. You can kill a deer or other large game animals with it, as well as smaller game, and best of all, it will sit a threat on the ground in a heart beat, even with bird shot. Everytime you get paid, take $20 bucks, and go get a combo of bird shot and slugs for it. You can get about 30 rounds of bird shot for 8 bucks. Do this every month and by the time society crumbles, there is a good chance you'll have stockpiled enough ammo to last you until some semblance of civility within society has returned.
I think you're pretty safe as far as the Government is concerned to. They are looking to take away all the AR's, hi-cap mags, and so on, not the boomstick of the lowly duck hunter.
Your post is both off topic and unwelcome since it is some of that "chest pounding false gun lover bravado" that we ask all to post ELSEWHERE!!
There always has to be at least one that either can't follow instructions or think they are "special".
Please do not respond to this selfish person so we can keep this thread on topic.
Air guns? Forget it. There may be a few small game animals you can get with an air gun { rabbit, squirrel, a bird if times are really tough } but just not a good choice. Better than a rock, yes. But probly my last choice in weaponry. And defending your shelter and loved ones against marauders? LOL. If you come at me with a BB gun, all you're gonna do is p**s me off.
All you need for all the concerns you listed above is a simple, pump action, 12 ga. shotgun. Common type, so ammo is plentiful and readily available, not to mention cheap as all get out. You can kill a deer or other large game animals with it, as well as smaller game, and best of all, it will sit a threat on the ground in a heart beat, even with bird shot. Everytime you get paid, take $20 bucks, and go get a combo of bird shot and slugs for it. You can get about 30 rounds of bird shot for 8 bucks. Do this every month and by the time society crumbles, there is a good chance you'll have stockpiled enough ammo to last you until some semblance of civility within society has returned.
I think you're pretty safe as far as the Government is concerned to. They are looking to take away all the AR's, hi-cap mags, and so on, not the boomstick of the lowly duck hunter.
You are correct on air guns. They're such a bad choice that they're scarcely worth discussing. In an environment that allows us to buy the high velocity models they do have their uses but in the society postulated by the OP I can't see their availability.
Now, let's see what the government does with our modern guns. During the aftermath of Katrina they took everything. They made the rounds to pick up guns bought at dealers; they also accosted people who were out and removed any guns they had. The lesson here is buy your guns off paper, no excptions, none.
We no longer dare write of expedient weapons in Obama's America. But start looking; they're there.
I would note that Lewis and Clark around 150 years ago brought along a "Air Gun" on their expedition in case the powder got wet and ruined but also because it was .45 calibre with a rate of fire of about 20+ shots per minute. It's muzzle velocity wouldn't have been 3000fps like a hunting rifle but it's going to be enough to shoot larger game and of course people.
The euro-armies of the time equipped their sniper\skirmishers with them. *ahem*
It proved highly valuable and they often demo-fired it to Indian tribes as a nice way of expressing that they could kick arse if someone were to choose that course of negotiation.
A little google searching will show you modern equivalents you can find that are not even remotely "daisy bb-gun" type wheapons.
Basically, I think that if Lewis and Clark thought it was a good idea out in the wild and demonstrated it's effectiveness in real conditions....using 150yo technology....it would probably be worth considering.
P.S. I would further note that they don't make a big boom....so if you are lying low in a survival situation it's nice not to alert people miles off to your presence....and you don't have to waste your good ammo.
mathguy it was 1805 to start, your 150 years is a tad shy..... That air gun wasn't gonna git no buffers either, nor bears, nor prong horns nor nuthin out west.. They used Muskets of 1798 vintage, which were smoothbore and flintlock, and the Harpers Ferry rifles we read about were still only on paper. That would be the 1806 model.
It was simply too late and they were gone up the river to far to get any..
I am not up to date on air guns, but so far as I know there isn't a thing over .22, and none will kill a deer with any reliability.
If people messed and tinkered about with black powder more they would find out modern gun writers are not always correct about much...
I have personally shot a TC 50 cal hawken (not a historically accurate gun) at a burned out toyota station wagon from apx 50 yards... The test was to see what damage a maxi ball could do over 100 grains of FFg powder.
The ball hit and passed thru the following steel, albeit softened some by heat..
2 layers of tail gate thinner steel, a thicker sheet steel of the rear seat back, 4 layers of the drivers seat back rest, cutting thru the curled edge, cut the wire which is the frame for a steering wheel but the plastic has been burned away leaving just a heavy wire, passed thru the steel dash angling back to the center some, past thru the fire wall a fairly heavy thickness, and smashed a hole apx 3 x 4 inches into the cylinder head stopping on a cylinder wall.
I was unable to recover any of the soft lead maxi ball....
For me 50 cal is mid sized.. I prefer 60 cal and up to 75 cal.. I am in the market for a .62 jager or poor boy in either a right or left flint lock.
The euro-armies of the time equipped their sniper\skirmishers with them. *ahem*
Except the British, and the Germans who were arming their skirmishers with a Baker Rifle (and the Jager in Germanies case). Both are pretty similar (since the British army presented Mr. Baker with a Jager and said we want a rifle like this...). Sniper were not really a fixture of armies until World War I where Germany specifically trained and equipped people in the role of Sharpshooter (now known as Snipers). Prior to that there were sharpshooters, just they were people who were in their regiments who could shoot better than average, sometimes much much better.
The French didn't use them either, they were using Muskets, since Napoleon did not think that the lower rate of fire was worth the additional accuracy. Most Napoleonic Skirmishers were either Hussars or Chasseurs (either mounted or foot) Foot carried the Charleville 1777 musket, and the Chasseurs of Hussars either an equivalent carbine musket, or pistols.
That doesn't really leave a lot for other armies in Europe in 1805... Since there really wasn't any other armies of note other than Germany/Prussian Empire, British Empire, and the French Empire.
Longest kill shot made was 600 yards with a Baker, at a retreat to La Coruna, the shooter killed General Colbert, and then just to prove it wasn't a fluke, shot his Aide too not too shabby from a .62 Caliber BP Flintlock Rifle.
The DragonClaw has been around for a while, well proven, and a decent weapon.
The main drawback is that it needs a lot of high pressure air to recharge it, usually a scuba tank or similar as it apparently charges to about 3000 psi.
It can shoot a 335 grain 50 cal projectile at around 750 FPS. It is a serious rifle, if not very practical as you need specialized compressors to reach the PSI required.
The link shows that rifle being shot at 25 yards.
There are other models available from other makers as well.
While it would not be my first choice, the low noise and recoil would make it a good gun for hunting if you didn't want people to notice you, and if you couldn't use a bow for some reason.
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