America's fascination with the apocalypse. (houses, bullets, United States, buying)

[MTSilvertip]

It isn't a Biblical quote, but predates the Bible.
God helps those who help themselves - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is based in observation of those that work and strive to exceed will have more opportunities and wealth than those sitting on their hindquarters griping that a benevolent God or gods isn't providing for them.

Perhaps you would prefer the quote,

"By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.”

That one is in the Bible, Genesis 3:19

As to the Appocolypse, from day one people have feared the unknown. If you want a fastination with death, try south of the border in the Latin American countries. Ust as an example, the way the "Day of the Dead" is celebrated in Mexico, or perhaps the Death Cults that existed in Ancient Greece and worshiped Hades, or any of the other death cults that have existed throughout time.

It is simply part of the human experience. Humans understand we are finite beings with a short livespan, perhaps the only animal with that knowledge, so we are always wondering what comes next.

[Trance750]

Originally Posted by High_Plains_Retired

A lot of Americans now believe in an apocalyptic world and anti-capitalist Hollywood capitalizes on the trend.

Meh. Hollywood looks to make a buck, like they have always done. Nothing new, here.

[gwynedd1]

Originally Posted by itsMeFred

Or not even necessarily decide, but the theory is always that they'll be those who get to survive. Because they're somehow more deserving and knowledgeable (through their preparations, of course) than the sheeple.


It is an old line.
For ten points, tell me where you find it in the Bible.

Its implied. God made man. Man has arms and legs with no strings attached. On the other hand an archaeologist may yet find the garage door opener of Jesus.

[ChrisC]

Originally Posted by itsMeFred

It is an old line.
For ten points, tell me where you find it in the Bible.

There are many quotes in the bible that say essentially the same thing. This one is long-winded, but essentially the same message: Matthew 25:1-13

[iknowftbll]

“Although our intellect always longs for clarity and certainty, our nature often finds uncertainty fascinating.”
– Karl Von Clausewitz

This is why we are fascinated with the apocalypse. Many on this thread have referenced Hollywood, so my apologies for repeating their points. But take a good look at how many movies are out there that deal with the near-destruction of the human race, or the aftermath of such destruction. It is awesome entertainment. For 100 minutes we get to live by our wits, survive armed militias, eat grubs because that's all we can find, or fight off alien attackers. Yes, it is awesome entertainment, so long as we get to go back to our homes and eat good food and live safe from fear of attack.

And it is not just Hollywood. Preparing for the worst is becoming its own industry of late. While there is a demand for it on one level, I believe the industry is propelled forward by "created demand." That is, planting the idea in one's head that they need a product that they had previously had no knowledge of its existence.

Meanwhile we have those who will attempt to become de-facto governments in a worst-case scenario. Posters have already alluded to this group on this thread. I believe these types don't trust government but are prepared to replace it with their own equally corrupt system of "justice." If you don't know the secret hand shake, you're off the ranch. Or worse.

And of course, there are those who actually legitimately are preparing because they believe it to be the prudent thing to do. I don't think this crowd is sitting around and hoping for anything to go wrong, they just want to be ready in case it does. I do think that these people would attempt to help others if they were able to do so.

So the interest in the apocalypse varies. It is not that we are all sitting around and waiting for the day to come, and hoping for it. Some may be. But I think most of us are just trying to ensure that we are able to take care of ourselves and our loved ones in a bad situation.

[nightbird47]

Originally Posted by ChrisC

I think this is a legitimate attitude toward the whole thing.

Mine is a little different, but perhaps at least in the same ballpark (maybe). As far as I'm concerned, "The Apocalypse" started a long time ago and is ongoing. Of course, it may get much worse. I don't claim to have the magical ability to know what the future holds like so many in the world (and even on this thread) think they do.

Thing is, I just cannot relate to most of what our society has become. Not that I much care, because I just do my own little thing and I'm generally okay with that. Being an introvert and occupying largely an "internal world" has its advantages. But, yeah, there is not much of anything that appeals to me about where we are in history at this point, nor the apparent direction we are going. As I've said a million times, my strategy is simply to ignore it and extract myself from it as much as possible. Problem is, the powers that be seem to be making that harder and harder to do as time goes by, and society itself seems to demand conformity in thought, belief, philosophy, opinion, and even action, more and more and more.

My big dream has long been a place where there are no neighbors. Where a garden could feed me. Where nobody cares how many dogs or cats I have. Where its quiet and peaceful. Of course now I'd have to have the internet, but for us introverts its really ideal. We can communicate as much or little as we want, socialize without the need to deal directly with people, and look for specialties that actually interest us.

I'm a huge fan of apoc fiction. My alternate trek stories have the Federation losing the Dominion war in various ways. I don't even deal with the religious version since I'm not even christan. But the tv shows I love best have people seperated from society. Lost, Jericho, and my current fascination Falling Skies.

I think your summation is so accurate as to why some have embrassed the 'end fantasy'. I myself don't see HOW we get ourselves out of the continuing spiral away from personal freedom without the system failing. And I do see it as already failing. Our institutions which worked well a long time ago have aged and hardened. Your not one of the old boys, then... And our beaurocracy grows without any help, fed by itself. Maybe that's why I'd like to be away from it all, since I don't want to get ensnared for not being a good obedient citizen. I'm one who wouldn be.

As someone who devours history, every single society had reached this point. Its fix it or go down the slow, slipery road. Or take the fast way out.

After years of sliprey, Rome crumpled in no time at all. But while it was horrific for those there at the end, and I'm sure they thought the whole world had ended, something new and functional came of it. Egypt just slowly slipped down the road until Rome took them over. Athens/Greece was a brief very bright flame which ended cataclysmically and quick. Societys go in their own way. But they all end. The ones where change is slow and gradual and barely noticed last a LONG time. The ones where it becomes the rule do not. For many years our society slowly improved itself and slipped back, but there were small advances. Then we got on the fast train. People are not psychologically made for that.

Even if I know I'm not likely to last, I'm still drawn to that bright flame out so the ones that pick themselves up and go on (I would without the medical issues) and those who sit there and die can be sorted out and something new and organic and functioning can bloom again.

I feel less and less a connection with this society as we go on, and like the above quote, largely just don't care much anymore.

[nightbird47]

Originally Posted by itsMeFred

Or not even necessarily decide, but the theory is always that they'll be those who get to survive. Because they're somehow more deserving and knowledgeable (through their preparations, of course) than the sheeple.


It is an old line.
For ten points, tell me where you find it in the Bible.

I have a different take on this. I don't recognize the bible so I won't quote it. But when push comes to shove, some have the ability to stand up, push the shock and the past and the sadness away and see what must be done. Its something your born with or not. Some are just going to sit and die since they can't see how they'd survive anyway, or care to. Most will try, and depending on how much 'clarity' they have will make it or not. This over prep or faith or anything else will be the decider. Its all up to us. A prepper with all the 'stuff' in the county who loses a spouse or child and can't get up from the grief is no better off than someone who has nothing. This is not about what we think we are. Its about what we are wired to be. Some of us know. (I was homeless.) Some of us don't.

The biggest demonstration of this was the great winnowing which took place about 50,000 years ago. Something, probably volcanic, destroyed the bipspere our ancestors lived in. Only those who were the smartest, and the most creative, and the best wired made it. But while we were homo sapiens then, at the end we got a new name, Homo sapiens sapiens. Wise wise man. The differences in the brain were so great that there was no comparison. This is when art began, and clothing became tailored and decorations worn. This implies a much greater sense of 'self' was born along with a bigger brain.

We've had mini winnowings since, and always will. If any of us think we can stop it we're being the fools.

[bolillo_loco]

Am I the only one that saw the humor / irony with the UK's interest with America's fascination with the apocalypse?

[itsMeFred]

It isn't a Biblical quote, but predates the Bible.

That was my point.

Biblical verses will essentially say that people were created for work and that it's part of what makes us who we are.
But nowhere will you find "God helps those who help themselves"

Only those who were the smartest, and the most creative, and the best wired made it.

Not to belittle those characteristics, but I'll bet the first criteria was probably those who were the luckiest.

[itsMeFred]

After years of sliprey, Rome crumpled in no time at all. But while it was horrific for those there at the end, and I'm sure they thought the whole world had ended, something new and functional came of it. Egypt just slowly slipped down the road until Rome took them over. Athens/Greece was a brief very bright flame which ended cataclysmically and quick. Societys go in their own way. But they all end. The ones where change is slow and gradual and barely noticed last a LONG time. The ones where it becomes the rule do not. For many years our society slowly improved itself and slipped back, but there were small advances. Then we got on the fast train. People are not psychologically made for that.

People always toss out the Roman Empire as the example of apocalyptic collapses and don't ever say anything about the Byzantine Empire. Why is that?

My argument would be that complete societal collapse would only happen with a large, global scale event. Or something that would collapse all first world nations. Because the collapse of the Roman Empire wouldn't happen today (and that's assuming we go with the theory that she collapsed, which is debatable, btw).

The Byzantine Empire continued on after Rome "collapsed." (In quotes because the Byzantine Empire was the Roman Empire, just as Rome was, at the time) The inter-connectedness of today's world would mean that the eastern half would prop up the western half for some time, because it was a very valuable region.