Vegan and special diet self sufficiency (farming equipment, wheat, grain, chicken)

[harry chickpea]

If someone wants to be an ethical vegan or vegetarian, I can understand that desire. However, this is a self-sufficiency and preparedness forum, not a "bash-the-chicken-eaters" forum.

So... in the interest of keeping the forum ON-TOPIC... what special needs do people with limited diets need to take to survive a SHTF situation?

Situation 1 - Stores closed for a week due to storm or other natural disaster.

Situation 2 - Extended (3 month) situation - lack of income, family issues, whatever.

Situation 3 - Major problem. Ummm, destruction of a nuke plant on the coast of Kalifornia contaminating much of the commercially grown organic foods for a year or more. Something along those lines or worse.

In special diets, there are other possible problems as well, what of people who must have insulin or thyroid medication, or other medications? With insurance requiring monthly refills, does that mean at month two, people start dying?

Again, I've no problem with the idea of ethical vegans or vegetarians, but since this is a SURVIVAL and SELF-SUFFICIENCY forum, and not a soap box for animal rights, I would hope that those posters have something CONSTRUCTIVE to add.

[gwynedd1]

Originally Posted by harry chickpea

If someone wants to be an ethical vegan or vegetarian, I can understand that desire. However, this is a self-sufficiency and preparedness forum, not a "bash-the-chicken-eaters" forum.

So... in the interest of keeping the forum ON-TOPIC... what special needs do people with limited diets need to take to survive a SHTF situation?

Situation 1 - Stores closed for a week due to storm or other natural disaster.

Situation 2 - Extended (3 month) situation - lack of income, family issues, whatever.

Situation 3 - Major problem. Ummm, destruction of a nuke plant on the coast of Kalifornia contaminating much of the commercially grown organic foods for a year or more. Something along those lines or worse.

In special diets, there are other possible problems as well, what of people who must have insulin or thyroid medication, or other medications? With insurance requiring monthly refills, does that mean at month two, people start dying?

Again, I've no problem with the idea of ethical vegans or vegetarians, but since this is a SURVIVAL and SELF-SUFFICIENCY forum, and not a soap box for animal rights, I would hope that those posters have something CONSTRUCTIVE to add.

B12 is an issue correct?

In that case fermented vegetables should provide a decent source.

I have recently fermented and have been enjoying a combination of fermented purslane and lambs quarters. "Weeds" are usually available.

[ChrisC]

I think in a couple of those situations a potential answer might be a better knowledge of edible wild plants. Some people know a bit about it, but for most it's a big mystery. But, it's a potential "gold mine" when it comes to food if you live in an area that sustains the multitude of wild plants that can be eaten... and very few know about. I've been studying and practicing this stuff for the past couple of years. It's a slow process and a steep learning curve (at least for me, because I'm, by nature, super cautious--perhaps overly so), but even in my rather arid area, there is just so much potential. If I were a complete vegetarian, I'd venture to say that (other than in the dead of winter), I could nearly live on the greens, berries, wild grains, acorns, roots, seeds from trees, flowers, etc, etc, etc, that are available out there. It's mind-boggling. Of course, many of these can be preserved for winter eating as well. Then again, doing this would be more than a full-time job unto itself--you're basically a "gatherer." So you'd have to have some financial and/or lifestyle independence.

In fact, I'd say that in a real extended emergency, unless a vegetarian or vegan actually started eating meat, this may be one of the few alternatives for finding food. Of course, there's always gardening, but who knows if that would be feasible in any given "situation"?

[gwynedd1]

Originally Posted by ChrisC

I think in a couple of those situations a potential answer might be a better knowledge of edible wild plants. Some people know a bit about it, but for most it's a big mystery. But, it's a potential "gold mine" when it comes to food if you live in an area that sustains the multitude of wild plants that can be eaten... and very few know about. I've been studying and practicing this stuff for the past couple of years. It's a slow process and a steep learning curve (at least for me, because I'm, by nature, super cautious--perhaps overly so), but even in my rather arid area, there is just so much potential. If I were a complete vegetarian, I'd venture to say that (other than in the dead of winter), I could nearly live on the greens, berries, wild grains, acorns, roots, seeds from trees, flowers, etc, etc, etc, that are available out there. It's mind-boggling. Of course, many of these can be preserved for winter eating as well. Then again, doing this would be more than a full-time job unto itself--you're basically a "gatherer." So you'd have to have some financial and/or lifestyle independence.

In fact, I'd say that in a real extended emergency, unless a vegetarian or vegan actually started eating meat, this may be one of the few alternatives for finding food. Of course, there's always gardening, but who knows if that would be feasible in any given "situation"?

Hi ChrisC,

That depends on what you choose to gather. Most greens require little or no processing. I can pick a salad from a spring basewood in minutes. Its nothing to pick lambs quarters, curly doc etc. If you find a good patch of wild parsnip, you can have quite a haul.

Equipment is another factor that can transform an impractical food source into a very practical one. Apples are a good example. With a food strainer, I can quickly puree and dry it.

[lifelongMOgal]

I would think that people who have chosen certain diets as a lifestyle (and not necessarily a medical requirement) have the same opportunities to prepare their own food panteries as do the rest of us. Vegans certainly have the opportunity to stock up, become proficient gardeners/foragers just as those following a Paleo diet have the opportunity to raise their own meat and veggies for canning or fermentation. There is a way to rinse the gluten from wheat berries so I'd suggest that those on gluten free diets would also fit into this category instead of depending on only gluten-free processed foods from the grocery.

That said, survivalism may require that those with chosen lifestyle diets who were not able to become self-sufficient abandon their druthers for the reality of eating to survive.

Those requring specific medications in order to live whose symptoms cannot be controled by any other alternative means will eventually die off should whatever SHTF scenario not be resolved and medications become available (if their disease has not already taken too large a toll on their organs). They can stretch their reserves for a time but some medications, such as insulin, lose efficacy the longer they are stored. The best thing to do is to correct diet and exercise habits now to help avoid the development of diabetes if at all possible.

IOH Diabetes Care Tips - Charts for insulin storage

Lack of physical conditioning, a long term poor diet, and chronic disease will, IMO, undermine the ability of some to survive a serious interruption in life as we've known it.

[PacificFlights]

Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal

That said, survivalism may require that those with chosen lifestyle diets who were not able to become self-sufficient abandon their druthers for the reality of eating to survive.

Excellent statement and is the most practical survival tool of them all

I have several types of emergency ratuions and if i was to lay them out based on my normal eating habits, it would not align. At least 60% of my eating depends on MEAT, I mean all meats from aliving anaimal, fish, beef, lamb, pork, chickern, turky, whatever MEAT!, but in the emergency rations, vegitable based meals are more prominent due to availability and variety. Even the meat included meals are minimal on the meat and heavy on the vegitable and grains.

Do I want to eat rice and spinich with almonds and berries all the time? NO, but in an emergency, belive me I would rather eat nothing but weeds, seeds and bark over starving. I know many folks who are vegitarians (all types) and I know for a fact that they would eat meat for survival purposes over dying.

"reality of eating to survive", yep, no better statement on food and diet can be said!

[Nor'Eastah]

Originally Posted by harry chickpea

...what of people who must have insulin or thyroid medication, or other medications? With insurance requiring monthly refills, does that mean at month two, people start dying?

Unfortunately most of these type of injectable meds (and that goes for B12 also) are animal-derived, something that startled a group of animal-rights advocates, some of whom were diabetics and were flabbergasted to find that their lifeline (insulin) was a product of slaughtered pigs. Ditto for thyroxin, unless you can use the synthetic, but normally that won't kill you for quite awhile.

In the case of B12, it is injected for a reason: stomach acid will destry most of it. If it weren't for this, folks with pernicious anemia could just pop a pill...except that won't work. However, before B12 shots were given, the "cure" for pernicious anemia was to eat several POUNDS of RAW liver per day. I dunno, I might choose death over that!

The only error I see here, is this isn't strictly speaking "diet", it is medication, and there are a whole host of them (such as blood-pressure meds, statin drugs, and oral diabetic tablets) that are in the same category. The error comes in thinking that this "crisis" will last more than a few months, which history shows repeatedly that it does not. The meds will still be there, but it may not be possible to access them for awhile. If your particular meds are animal-derived, you may be out of luck unless you can find an animal that secretes what you need. I would beware of garden-variety substitutes, herbs or whatever. You likely won't get what you think you will. Vegans and vegetarians will be on their own in any crisis.

[ChrisC]

Originally Posted by gwynedd1

Hi ChrisC,

That depends on what you choose to gather. Most greens require little or no processing. I can pick a salad from a spring basewood in minutes. Its nothing to pick lambs quarters, curly doc etc. If you find a good patch of wild parsnip, you can have quite a haul.

Equipment is another factor that can transform an impractical food source into a very practical one. Apples are a good example. With a food strainer, I can quickly puree and dry it.

I envy you folks that have this stuff down cold. I've been concentrating on berries this summer and although there are a few I still haven't identified, most are pretty easy for me now. Some that I used to confuse... well, I don't see how I could have confused them--now they are obvious.

But... when it comes to certain greens, I always fear that in a moment of daydreaming or reduced awareness while foraging, I may get some Hairy Nightshade in with the Wild Spinach (Lambsquarters), or Scarlet Pimpernel in with the Chickweed, or some crazy poisonous plant that I don't even know about in with the Thistle. I suppose this fear will abate with time and experience (it certainly has with most berries), but it does make the going very slow when I'm analyzing, with a fine-toothed comb (not literally ), every little thing I harvest. If only they were all as easy to identify as mallow!

That brings another issue up about wild edible plants for vegetarians or otherwise: if you have an interest in it... start doing it NOW! You'll either starve to death or kill yourself if you think you'll run out into the woods and pick wild plants to survive, having never done it before. It takes a lot of time and effort to know these things. Don't plan on learning to swim when the boat sinks.

[harry chickpea]

I'm not so sure that wild plants are going to be much of a resource. "Crafters" around here go after the ginseng and other plants of value, and would probably increase their foraging to food plants. The concept of foraging also implies access and possibly transportation to the area and back. City and suburban dwellers might find shotguns and worse facing them in any greater civil unrest.

Some foods can be stored, but the gut can rebel against major changes in diet or suddenly severely limited diets. (A problem for some non-vegans as well).

The global economy is partly designed to have nations incur severe disruptions in any major war. The laws of economics and inexpensive product production are not the same as the concepts of redundant and distributed sources for products. If a few drug manufacturies are "taken out" in a conflict, or key supplies cut off, there will be problems. The same can go for foods or farming equipment and so on.

While I agree that long-term global disasters are a kind of oxymoron, a country engaged in war may have that war drag on for three or more years. There are only so many dried beans that can be stored, on a practical basis.

[MTSilvertip]

One thing I see overlooked so far are roots and tubers.

In several kinds of disasters, surface plants may be destroyed by wildfire, or prolonged drought, or locusts for instance.

Roots and tubers may be protected and could be a short term source of food. I know in my area there are several varieties that are not just good for you, but are pretty decent tasting as well.

We have one plant here called the Biscuitroot. When roasted it can be eaten like a potato, but if dehydrated and ground, it becomes a decent self rising flour.
Chris is correct to be careful as we have wild onion here, but it grows alongside and looks very similar to Death Camas. (one distinguishing characteristic is Death Camas doesn't smell like onion).

The berries are in season here and we have already put up several quarts of Chokecherry jelly and syrup, but those same berries when dehydrated and mixed with meat and fat become pemmican which is a very high energy food that stores well if kept cool.

Many wild berries/leaves/plants have some trace element of various poisions in them and must be cooked or dried prior to use to remove the toxins.

Just as an example, wild raspberries are a treat and the leaves have been used by the local Indians for centuries in teas to prevent miscarriages, reduce labor pains, it is an antispasmodic as it contains fragarine.
However, the leaves must be either fresh or dried as wilted leaves can be toxic.
Even something as common as Chokecherries must be eaten with care as the pits, leaves and bark contain hydrocyanic acid which is toxic. Cooking or dehydrating the fruit removes the cyanide.

Plant material from any source to keep going is a viable option, but to ignore the fats, amino acids and protiens and volume of calories contained in meat in a survival situation is to loose a valuable food source.
Plants would work for a while, but without being able to find all the different vitamins, minerals and carbohydrates that you must eat a wide variety of plant material to get, you would only be hurting yourself to deny eating a fish or wild grouse, or even a deer or elk if you could get one.

Dietary concerns where you are alergic to some foods would make the job of feeding yourself infinately more difficult.