U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Self-Sufficiency and Preparedness
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-11-2012, 01:49 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
6,615 posts, read 5,166,617 times
Reputation: 6184
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTSilvertip View Post
It depends on where you are in Montana as far as the price goes, the land in the Western 1/3, the "pretty" part is priced as a retreat for the rich and shameless, but the other 2/3rds don't meet the Discovery Channel definition of what open land should look like, so is far cheaper. I have seen 160 acre pieces in central or eastern Montana for as little as $60K.

I agree, humans are herd animals and most don't do well without a lot of interaction with others, but you only brand calves once a year, and ship once a year so you will see your neighbors twice a year times the number that help you and you help, so say 10 or 12 times a year you see your neighbors?
Building fence is a one time thing if you do it right, then you simply ride the line to check for broken wires or saggers. Not a real social endeavor.

With modern machinery, you don't need your neighbors help as you swath the hay, (by yourself) bale the hay, (by yourself) and use the stacker to put the hay up, again it is just you, your tractor and your stacker.

Personally, I haven't been to church in probably 25 years, (they are far too liberal these days and don't follow the Word as written), but I agree that church in a small community is a gathering place for potlucks, and activities for people to socialize at, and usally have very little to do with religion.

Just because you prefer to live your life your way and not the way imposed upon you by someone else's version of how you should live doesn't make you strange or different, it makes you You. An individual person not just a shadow conforming to the masses version of what you should wear, what tv shows you should watch, or what candidate for office is the proper one to vote for to be in the "In Crowd".

Individuals make their own choices, live their own way and make their life the best they can for THEM not for everybody else.

I don't care what they do on their side of the fence as long as they don't effect my stock or me, and they shouldn't care what I do unless it directly effects them.

It used to be called "live and let live". But now, everybody wants to be able to tell you what you can grow or raise, or if you can paint your house a color that they don't approve of, or that you don't keep your lawn mowed to their specifications.
Covenents and Homeowner Associations are the leading cause of incivility among neighbors in my views.

I don't care how others choose to live, their business. I just want to have the same courtisy extended to me and just leave me the heck alone.

Living like this is not for everybody, and should be a consideration when looking for someplace to feel safe because a lot of places on the map don't have a lot of options for eating out or buying supplies.
Not everybody can fabricate their own repairs or build their own homes and buildings or fix the plumbing or raise enough food to live on.
Where you locate is just as serious because you may not be able to handle being shut in for several months of arctic weather or extreme heat.
It is more work to grow gardens in areas that are dryer or with short growing seasons. If you aren't a big meat eater, more temperate areas are a far better choice because the dry areas will raise cattle and sheep and goats well, so your diet tends to a more protein based instead of carb based diet.

Simple seperation from large population centers is only one facet of the equation.
The best state to live in is the one that works best for you.
Well, we may not always agree on everything or on all details, but the philosophy you've expressed here I couldn't agree with more. Every ounce of my being revolves around that "live and let live" idea that so many have forgotten in our age. It doesn't mean that we all don't have opinions on things (and the right to express them), it means our opinions are ours... and they need not be everyone else's. That's the part most people don't understand; most folks want to turn opinions into mandates. Anyway... I'm with you 100% on the live and let live thing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-11-2012, 02:02 PM
 
Location: southwest Nebraska and northwest Kansas
2,099 posts, read 2,751,562 times
Reputation: 1453
Quote:
Plus, let's face it: 80 acres in Montana can set you back SERIOUS money these days.
Not necessarily. Eastern Montana is pretty cheap, so long as you're well away from the oil patch and aren't shopping on those nationally advertised websites. A friend of ours just bought 80 acres for $600 an acre. (Too close to the patch lol)
To compare, we paid $16K for 40 acres of rough grass in western Kansas...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-11-2012, 02:05 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
6,615 posts, read 5,166,617 times
Reputation: 6184
Quote:
Originally Posted by ognend View Post
Almost everything you said is true, I am more playing devil's advocate than anything else (I do honestly think I could never survive in MT completely on my own).

Covenants were invented to protect what is being sold to you. When a piece of virgin land becomes the picturesque gated community of 20+ acre parcels on "what is still a working ranch where you can also see the unobstructed sky at night since our community is a Class blah-blah Dark Sky community" - these parcels cost insane amounts of money. When someone spends that kind of money on a parcel they want to know that some idiot will not buzz all day next to them on an ATV, drink and shoot the wildlife and generally make a total inconsiderate ass out of themselves. In the "good ole'" times that jackass would be warned, beat and shot on the third strike and, believe me, if there was a law saying it is OK to do that I am sure people would be more polite to each other. However, supposedly we live in a "civilized society" so that kind of a jackass (and I apologize to the animal here for using its good name) is kept under control via covenants.

OD
It's just too bad such a "jackass" doesn't have enough consideration for others, or respect, to control himself. Such are our times, I suppose. Too many people adhere to the "Live" part of the equation (in excess) and do not adhere to the "and let live" part of the equation.

Take for instance, the "jackass" that has been flying in circles overhead in his/her helicopter most of the morning and afternoon. If I were to have an M-61 Vulcan Gatling gun set up in the back yard, such a jackass sure would tempt a bit of "mandated courtesy." Of course... that wouldn't then be very "courteous" of me, now would it?






And... no... it's not a black helicopter.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-11-2012, 02:29 PM
 
Location: East Side Milwaukee
651 posts, read 782,956 times
Reputation: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
This all supposes that there is a sudden, and largely complete breakdown of public services. If this happened, within two days, nearly the entire population of Manhattan Island would be at the shore scooping water into their mouths. The dysentery would take a third of the population within two weeks, strife and emigration from the city would take another big chunk.
Interesting post overall... just wanted to mention that NYC has water coming in without pumping from upstate New York, the natural water pressure would get water to up to 4/5 story buildings.

That doesn't really take away much... if it's not dysentery, it's hunger... or something else... just thought you'd find it interesting.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-11-2012, 05:32 PM
 
1,677 posts, read 745,508 times
Reputation: 1005
Quote:
Even people who claim they want true isolation and abhore people - they don't since the first thing they do is get friendly with their neighbors, help each other during calving season or build a fence or hay the field. Most also go to the local church for companionship etc.
Or they go online and spend a lot of time on forums like this one communicating with other humans, which is social interaction whether or not they admit it. You can turn it off and walk away anytime you want but it's a far cry from living a hermit lifestyle.

I love solitude and take advantage of it but ya know, there are reasons why solitary confinement is a punishment and can drive humans crazy.

I think I could live a hermit lifestyle or at least I think I could last longer than most, but this is something one cannot state with any certainty unless one does it - without internet, phone, etc.

Quote:
Too many survivalist folk are bent on the whole population density thing. Same with the self-sufficiency folk. You can have 20 acres 40 miles SE of Austin and grow enough veggies and fruits to feed an army. You could have solar in your house, biodiesel, enough hay to feed a few cattle and horses etc. In other words you could be self-sufficient within 20-40 miles of a large urban center. A lot of the self-sufficiency and survival stuff (including survivalblog.com) are outlets for zealotry (whether it is "anti big government" or "anti tree huggers" or religion based or whatever) and someone is making a living doing that - instead of sitting in a cubicle for 9 hours a day or welding pipes for 12 hours a day, they get to sit and scour maps and data and brainstorm about whether a hill is better than a valley to defend in a case of a SHTF scenario.
Some hijack the phrase self-sufficient lifestyle as a cover for something else - usually a reaction to fear, IMO. Once they perceive the threat of whatever they feared to be alleviated, they go back to their previous lifestyles. So they were never really interested in a self-sufficient lifestyle.

Quote:
Places like Nebraska, Kansas, Missouri, Iowa, Ohio, Arkansas, Oklahoma etc
Some of these states experience lots of natural disasters too - look up disaster aid. As MTSilvertip pointed out, in some places the environment is trying harder to kill you. If it doesn't kill you, it can easily destroy everything. Of course this can happen anywhere but if greater chance of safety and self-sufficiency is what you're looking for, consider the natural environment.

Quote:
The best state to live in is the one that works best for you.
Yeah, I say stick with natural environments you know. If you pick up and move to the type of environment you've never lived in before, you may be in for a big surprise. It may only be good for you as long as water comes out of the tap when you turn it on, the heat/air comes on, and trucks are still bringing in food and supplies to your nearest stores.

Quote:
if you know how to pilot a boat. :-)
I am almost as comfortable on water as I am on land, but most people are not so it doesn't come up much. I also like what's in the water, additional food. For me, having water within reasonable proximity whether it's ocean, river, great lakes, etc., is a positive, not a negative.

Quote:
I have visited middle Tennessee (Cookeville, Sparta and Clarksville) and
the people there impressed me.
Clarksville is very close to Nashville and has grown alot. Not so long ago there was only one exit for Clarksville, now there are at least 6 exits.

Just north of Clarksville deserves a look though, IMO, continuing on up into western KY. Lots of good land (better than the land between Nashville and Knoxville), and few people.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-11-2012, 06:15 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
6,615 posts, read 5,166,617 times
Reputation: 6184
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarlet_ohara View Post
You can turn it off and walk away anytime you want but it's a far cry from living a hermit lifestyle.
Which is, of course a huge benefit. Doesn't work like that in "real life," though. The closest one can come (assuming one lives in an "anthill") is to never go out of the house... which of course, can be done to a large extent, but is impractical to practice 100% of the time. One does need food/supplies occasionally.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-11-2012, 06:48 PM
 
1,677 posts, read 745,508 times
Reputation: 1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
Which is, of course a huge benefit. Doesn't work like that in "real life," though. The closest one can come (assuming one lives in an "anthill") is to never go out of the house... which of course, can be done to a large extent, but is impractical to practice 100% of the time. One does need food/supplies occasionally.
Actually, avoiding people in real life is very easy for me. I rarely leave my property. I don't understand ... why do you think this impossible or even difficult?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-11-2012, 07:04 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
6,615 posts, read 5,166,617 times
Reputation: 6184
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarlet_ohara View Post
Actually, avoiding people in real life is very easy for me. I rarely leave my property. I don't understand ... why do you think this impossible or even difficult?
Well, I'll assume I don't live quite as rurally as you do. I did at one time... but my area has "outgrown" me.

I'm getting closer to making the switch, though.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-11-2012, 07:43 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
21,466 posts, read 26,848,139 times
Reputation: 8572
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
Which is, of course a huge benefit. Doesn't work like that in "real life," though. The closest one can come (assuming one lives in an "anthill") is to never go out of the house... which of course, can be done to a large extent, but is impractical to practice 100% of the time. One does need food/supplies occasionally.
I think I average leaving the farm twice a week. Once is Sunday to go to church. Then some weeks I go into town once for Farmer's Market, other weeks I may have to run other errands.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-11-2012, 07:51 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
6,615 posts, read 5,166,617 times
Reputation: 6184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
I think I average leaving the farm twice a week. Once is Sunday to go to church. Then some weeks I go into town once for Farmer's Market, other weeks I may have to run other errands.
Oh, stop it. You're making me jealous.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $79,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Self-Sufficiency and Preparedness
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top