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... You referred to the product as organic which is incorrect because you would first need to have the product certified organic before you could sell it as such....
Not exactly.
I am a member of an organic certifying agency [non-governmental, in fact they started certifying organics decades before any government dreamed of regulating organics]. They are called MOFGA
An organic operation only requires certification after they have exceeded a minimum level of gross sales.
We have many small farms in this area that are Organic, yet their gross sales are small enough that they do not need to be certified.
Once a farm is certified, they can produce organic as well as non-organic crops. The farm is certified by the certifying agency, the agency does not certify the crop.
A certified farm places their CO label onto their organic crops.
It has little to do with safety and a lot to do with generating more money for the government machine....
All too true. It's about getting their cut, as if the sales taxes aren't enough.
Most of the folks selling in the farmer's markets here have a business license. That's it. In our other state being basically a mono-crop and animal raising ag state there are a few more official hoops but not much. I don't plan on taking a property tax exemption for ag land though our county zoning permits it. I'll pay the extra taxes to not have to fill out their invasive forms. There everyone grows a garden of some such but it's my observation that it's tomatoes, corn, green beans and other hot weather items and if they grow fruit it's an old unkempt apple or canning pear tree. Our plan is to not grow those things except for personal use.
Our plan is to grow in the cool/cold seasons in row covers and greenhouses. Fresh lettuce, greens, peas, radishes, broccoli and other spring vegetables in the winter. Things that people don't plant because they bolt in the summer heat. Fruit, possibly exotic melons and nuts in the summer/fall plus herbs both as defensive companions to ward off pests and as attractors for pollinators and cash crop if that works out. Our local co-op there buys from area producers and sells, certified organic, grown by organic methods but not certified, and simply locally grown. My husband hated most vegetables when I met him. He was fed those cardboard varieties bred for shipping and shelf life. He has grown to love the fresh stuff.
I hear you on wild fruit. Nothing is better than wild strawberries on home made vanilla ice cream. Worms? A good source of protein but I won't volunteer to eat one if I see it first.
I've never lived anywhere that had food safety regulations on whole produce (nuts, grain, fruit & veg). The only legal/gov thing involved with that is (possibly) a business license and (maybe) a stand permit. That's for a truck or on-farm stand, you may have to deal with additional regs and fees if you're part of a farmer's market.
Eggs, dairy, meat and processed foods is where you get into weird regulations, some federal and some state, and some state overriding the federal, and some federal overriding the state. In my state, I can sell all the eggs I want from my own laying flock of less 100 hens, and I can sell meat from my own flock of less than 3000 broiler chickens, and I can sell certain processed foods from a home kitchen (bread, jams, honey etc), and I can sell milk & meat direct-to-consumer via CSA if I follow a few rules.
A lot of people are turned off from homesteading because of the myriad, convoluted laws and regulations. Our government engine isn't set up to handle small-scale farmsteaders and DIY owner-builders who want to incorporate alternative systems... bureaucracy hates non-conformity and pretty much tries to eradicate it.
I think that women may be more reluctant to battle the system and wade through all the BS... so that may be one reason more men are seen attempting SS&P. Women are sneakier when it comes to getting things done and fly below the radar. Not saying that women won't raise holy hell if it's something they really believe in, but as a general rule they tend to accomplish things by appearing to comply harmlessly and figuring out how to do what they want without raising flags.
I am a member of an organic certifying agency [non-governmental, in fact they started certifying organics decades before any government dreamed of regulating organics]. They are called MOFGA
An organic operation only requires certification after they have exceeded a minimum level of gross sales.
We have many small farms in this area that are Organic, yet their gross sales are small enough that they do not need to be certified.
Once a farm is certified, they can produce organic as well as non-organic crops. The farm is certified by the certifying agency, the agency does not certify the crop.
A certified farm places their CO label onto their organic crops.
It can not be marketed here legally as organic unless it is certified organic.
I've never lived anywhere that had food safety regulations on whole produce (nuts, grain, fruit & veg). The only legal/gov thing involved with that is (possibly) a business license and (maybe) a stand permit. That's for a truck or on-farm stand, you may have to deal with additional regs and fees if you're part of a farmer's market.
Eggs, dairy, meat and processed foods is where you get into weird regulations, some federal and some state, and some state overriding the federal, and some federal overriding the state. In my state, I can sell all the eggs I want from my own laying flock of less 100 hens, and I can sell meat from my own flock of less than 3000 broiler chickens, and I can sell certain processed foods from a home kitchen (bread, jams, honey etc), and I can sell milk & meat direct-to-consumer via CSA if I follow a few rules.
A lot of people are turned off from homesteading because of the myriad, convoluted laws and regulations. Our government engine isn't set up to handle small-scale farmsteaders and DIY owner-builders who want to incorporate alternative systems... bureaucracy hates non-conformity and pretty much tries to eradicate it.
I think that women may be more reluctant to battle the system and wade through all the BS... so that may be one reason more men are seen attempting SS&P. Women are sneakier when it comes to getting things done and fly below the radar. Not saying that women won't raise holy hell if it's something they really believe in, but as a general rule they tend to accomplish things by appearing to comply harmlessly and figuring out how to do what they want without raising flags.
Got to agree with you there Missing. One of the things we raise for sale is cattle. We can sell the live cow to a customer, no problems, but we can't process the meat and sell it unless it has been processed in a government approved plant. However, we can sell the steer to a customer, and let them go out in our field and kill it, field dress it and cut it up if they want, no problem.
Most of our customers don't have the equipment to move a live steer or cow, so we sell the animal to the customer and deliver it to a local processor. They pick up the meat in nice little packages and pay for the processing while we get the check for the live weight animal. It's a simple solution except the customer has to buy a whole beef, or find some friends that want a half or quarter and split the costs.
We couldn't take a freezer full of meat to a farmers market and sell T-bones and Prime Ribs, but we can still move our product if we follow the laws. It reduces the amount of meat we can move because our customers have to work with a full carcass instead of buying a few pounds of hamburger or steak at a time.
My sister in law makes pretty good money selling eggs, but doesn't sell the processed chickens because of the added regulations where they are as she would have to have an inspected facility for butchering them.
It's all a game. You play by their rules and try to make enough to make the returns worth the effort.
I sell knives and axes and other hand forged tools at farmers markets, no inspectors
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingAll4Seasons
Women are sneakier when it comes to getting things done and fly below the radar. Not saying that women won't raise holy hell if it's something they really believe in, but as a general rule they tend to accomplish things by appearing to comply harmlessly and figuring out how to do what they want without raising flags.
I guess it would be not easy to grow organic apples. We do here and the are perfect. The key of course is absence of pests.
I won't do peaches other than for our own consumption, too much work and a late frost could do us in.
I'm thinking cherries, pecans, filberts, possibly a dessert pear or apricot and bush/cane fruit, interplanting planting a wide variety and not too many of anything to keep predation down.
I hand control and trap predators. There are a number of organic dormant oils and canola and neem oils are a good last resort. I believe in the island theory. You stay away from other "like" producers to avoid major pest infestations. We are in the heart of animal raisers. Nary an orchard in sight, only two in the county and they both grow apples.
Ironically while herbs grow themselves practically and lack natural pests, I can't find a single herb farm in a 100 mile radius. I've looked. Since I was raised in this area and had a prodigiously productive herb garden as a teen I know that will work for certain. If nothing else, a roadside stand on the weekends which is legal in our area will be fine for me. I'm not looking at making a killing, just selling our excess.
Yes, if you keep the scale down, avoid mono culture and clean up debris it can be done. However most people want nothing to do with a "flawed" apples. It is certainly an adaptive advantage for me and my knife but there is a reason they are often sprayed.
Nothing annoys me. I get a kick out of your attitude. First, as I said the naive conception that you are growing something special by it being all natural. You referred to the product as organic which is incorrect because you would first need to have the product certified organic before you could sell it as such. Second, your comment on no herb farms within 100 miles. Perhaps there is a good reason herb farms aren't plentiful. Third, the mention of hugelkultur. That alone makes me realize how little experience you have with farming and the market place.
You seem to be completely obnoxious to me. Looks to me like your farming experience is with straw men. The context was in no way an unambiguous claim about USDA, certified organic. It appeared comment was that the actual cultural practice would be organic and such could be claimed as much as biodynamic. And speaking of laughable, many people who shop at farmers markets don't take much stock in certifications. I would be one of them. The description of the cultural practices can speak for themselves especially if the operation is near by.
...most people want nothing to do with a "flawed" apples....
I think that's true. We hadn't planned on planting apples (other than for our own consumption) because they are a problem where we are going. Cedar rust, borers and the like. We do have a very old heirloom apple tree of some type on the property and in mid-season the apples are still perfect, almost Granny Smith like. I don't know how they ripen out because we get back too late and the four footers (squirrels, raccoons and deer) have gotten them all by then, nary a dead drop in sight. I plan to air layer the newest branches on the tree to get a clone or two this spring as it seems to be resistant to local crawlers and diseases. We have a cider mill if nothing else for the less than stellar and apple butter/sauce is another good way of making do with not so pretty apples.
You are right about our intent. We will practice sustainable organic growing methods, one of which will be hugelkultur with our fruit trees, bushes, canes, vines, brambles because we have an abundance of rotting wood and a bunch of ancient swales running the width of the hillside field to work with. A partial filling and planting will trap run-off for natural water retention aside from the benefits of the beds themselves. I doubt that we will bother with organic certification though it would be fairly easy (considering) here because the land is at present untended but mown pasture. I don't think that the certification will mean much now that the standards have been dumbed down by the feds to allow agri-business to get a claw-hold on the organic market.
I'm like you gwynedd, local source and practices mean far more to me than certification at the local markets. And finally it is as MT said...all a game. Being female, adaptability and stealth is something I have a lot of practice with.
all I knowis im a single female 29 yr old homesteader whod love to be even more self sufficient nd am slowly working towards it and would LOVE to find a man as equally interested but whos not fixed on gender roles...NO I wont stay in the house and cook your diner while your out playing with the tractor thank you, YOU cook ill go rev that engine!
theres a few thigns I would prefer not to go without however...
running water/indoor plumbing...(I like alittle pressure in my shower, though id have no problem with a composting toilet ect as long as I don't have totrapse through 6 ft of snow togt to it lol)
internet...yup its my guilty pleasure, I don't have tv, I have a cellphone for absolute emergencies only, but internet...I use it for so much form general basic entertainment to serious reaserch, to purchases of things I canot get locally and keeping in contact with relitives...
otherwise, ill tae oil lamps ad a wood stove and a composting toilet and nights by the campfire and morngings with only a rooster and the sunrie as my alarm clock...thanks.
Oh, Drat. Foxy, I am trying to get information about a composting toilet that does not require electricity. We cannot have a dug toilet where we live, so I am wondering how to legally put a low cost one in that works when the electric is out . any advice?
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