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Old 09-07-2013, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Where the mountains touch the sky
5,694 posts, read 6,514,981 times
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I guess I should have said Further Contribute, but oh well...
Looking at the news this morning, (Yes I know, depressing but I like to do a daily intel brief as much as I can) and found a disturbing trend to say the least.

Poland, Hungary, France, Bulgaria and other countries are nationalizing private pension funds.

Poland Confiscates Half Of Private Pension Funds To "Cut" Sovereign Debt Load | Zero Hedge

Hungary To Nationalize Pension Funds: ?This Is Open Blackmail?

Bulgarian Minister Unsure about Nationalization of Pension Funds - Novinite.com - Sofia News Agency

European nations begin seizing private pensions - CSMonitor.com

and it looks like the US is set to follow suit with your 401K

Retirement Fund Facts, Distortions, and Rumors | Special Section | World | Epoch Times

Nationalized retirement accounts: The coming confiscation of the retirement savings of the middle class | The PPJ Gazette


I took articles from a variety of sources to minimize the sensationalism of a particular political ideology, and while the stories all carry some degree of spin, the basic premise holds that securities deposited for retirement are being threatened by governments ostensibly responsible for providing a measure of economic security to their populations.

This is one of the reasons I prep, don't know about you, but this stuff really makes me cautious about the future.

Last edited by MTSilvertip; 09-07-2013 at 11:16 AM..
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Old 09-22-2013, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Backwoods of Maine
7,296 posts, read 8,852,749 times
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Just discovered this thread. I follow Jim Sinclair (visit his site at jsmineset) and his latest acronym is GOTS = Get Out of The System. He is traveling around the US and selected western countries giving a series of Q&A lectures on how to protect yourself - and on his own dime, too. The $50 fee he charges is just to cover the venue and refreshments.

Retirement savings are the last big wad of cash that governments have access to. They set it up so people would get tax breaks (but even Roths are not secure) to get them saving. It worked, and now all that cash is sitting there, and the boomers are starting to retire and USE it, and that is what I think will get the govt moving sooner rather than later. At age 59 and a half, I liquidated my own retirement (wife still has hers, which she'll lose, but we'll be fine).

Don't forget the 'bail-ins' a la Cyprus. Lots of Americans have 250K in one bank, 250K in a second bank, etc till they figure they're covered by FDIC. I laugh...FDIC only has 30-something billion in funds; that won't cover losses when the big banks go down from derivative exposure. So even ordinary savings (not retirement) are at great risk from bank insolvency.

People do not want to hear this. My friends scoff at the idea. While I have protected myself as much as possible, the thought that ordinary Americans will lose all they have saved for, and should get out of the banks and markets now, is falling on deaf ears. That money is just too tempting...no politician will allow the poor to do without on their watch; it will be nationalized and those who are rich and comfortable now will lose their security and lifestyle. All because they insist on holding it in Federal Reserve Notes, which are controlled by the Fed, not them. Buy gold and silver, and keep it outside the banking system. And no - an IRA inphysical metal will NOT protect you.
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Old 09-22-2013, 09:45 AM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
11,537 posts, read 11,320,574 times
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Thing is, most people do not believe that anything like this could happen here, even though they see it happening in other "first world" nations (or maybe they don't believe that, either). It's classic normalcy bias, and it's getting us into hot water ala The Hare rather than The Tortoise, because nobody wants to change our Titanic's heading away from the iceberg. They seem to think it's a trick of the light or something.

As for gold and silver, I'm not sure what to think about that right now. I see it as safer than worthless paper notes, but only one step farther back. I'm more comfortable with the idea of essential "hard goods"--food, water, supplies, tools, land, etc--being "banked." But who knows? It all depends on when and if and how severe.

And banks... well, I keep enough to fund a debit card in there. That's it.
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Old 09-22-2013, 11:41 AM
 
5,722 posts, read 9,016,605 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
Thing is, most people do not believe that anything like this could happen here, even though they see it happening in other "first world" nations (or maybe they don't believe that, either). It's classic normalcy bias, and it's getting us into hot water ala The Hare rather than The Tortoise, because nobody wants to change our Titanic's heading away from the iceberg. They seem to think it's a trick of the light or something.

As for gold and silver, I'm not sure what to think about that right now. I see it as safer than worthless paper notes, but only one step farther back. I'm more comfortable with the idea of essential "hard goods"--food, water, supplies, tools, land, etc--being "banked." But who knows? It all depends on when and if and how severe.

And banks... well, I keep enough to fund a debit card in there. That's it.
You need food, and toilet paper, power, water etc.... You can't think of everything.


There are also property taxes....

PM's fill a gap/specific purpouse.
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Old 09-22-2013, 07:32 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
11,537 posts, read 11,320,574 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Themanwithnoname View Post
You need food, and toilet paper, power, water etc.... You can't think of everything.


There are also property taxes....

PM's fill a gap/specific purpouse.
That's true, as long as things are running along relatively smoothly.

Taxes are scary. There really is nothing stopping the government (in the current condition our nation is in) from setting taxes at any rate they like. It could easily turn into a confiscatory situation--the idea of "pricing it out of the reach of the common man." That's already taking place with some things the powers-that-be do not want us to have. But, ultimately, yeah... paper money serves a purpose; for now anyway.

And, other than in my state, I don't know that gold or silver is "legal tender" elsewhere. Even so, there are only a few merchants in the area that will accept gold and silver as payment. But, at least the infrastructure to do so is set up. As I said, I'm definitely more confident in gold and silver than the dollar. Just not completely so.
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Old 09-22-2013, 09:58 PM
Status: "Support the Mining Law of 1872" (set 26 days ago)
 
Location: Cody, WY
10,043 posts, read 12,093,860 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTSilvertip View Post
Barring some catastrophic event or chain of events I can't see the government's being able to this at the present time. Washington can still borrow unlimited funds and the financial industry would fight this to the last drop of blood. If they tied it now the financial big guys would eatuickly them alive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor'Eastah View Post
And no - an IRA inphysical metal will NOT protect you.
It won't prevent confiscation but does provide for important investment strategies. But in order to protect the value of physical metals with respect to the dollar we must use something tied to the dollar as well as to gold. Put options are the obvious choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
As for gold and silver, I'm not sure what to think about that right now. I see it as safer than worthless paper notes, but only one step farther back. I'm more comfortable with the idea of essential "hard goods"--food, water, supplies, tools, land, etc--being "banked." But who knows? It all depends on when and if and how severe.
Land and water rights may be good investments but I can't see investing in consumer goods. In hard times the value of these tumble. During the Great Depression even land often lost all of its value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
...paper money serves a purpose; for now anyway.

And, other than in my state, I don't know that gold or silver is "legal tender" elsewhere. Even so, there are only a few merchants in the area that will accept gold and silver as payment. But, at least the infrastructure to do so is set up. As I said, I'm definitely more confident in gold and silver than the dollar. Just not completely so.
"Legal tender" status is irrelevant. All that matters is whether something is accepted for payment. The only thing that is universally accepted in this country today is the US dollar, like it or not.

Silver looks less and less attractive as the years go by. It never really recovered after the photo film industry found ways to make film without it. I see nothing to recommend it over gold. Apart from numismatic coins I haven't bought any additional since 1980. I'd happily take platinum or even palladium over silver. I have silver coins in my stores and plan to keep them but their function is primarily to appeal to my lust for and love of physical and shiny wealth, what I call the Scrooge McDuck syndrome.
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Old 09-23-2013, 10:45 AM
 
Location: North Idaho
25,250 posts, read 33,183,633 times
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That might be why Obama has worked so hard and so constantly to stir up a class war. Maybe the long term plan is to seize retirement funds, and tell the public that the 1% deserves to have all its funds seized. The entire middle class will somehow be confused that it was their retirement seized since they aren't the 1%, but with enough spin, the government will get away with it

From there, industries could be nationalized with the same excuse; Communism, here we come.
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Old 09-23-2013, 04:07 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
11,537 posts, read 11,320,574 times
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Thing is, it's a dangerous game for Santa Claus to be playing. The Parasite Class is never satisfied. Santa Claus can channel all the funds he wants and, just as with any parasitic organism in nature, the Parasite Class will continue to increase its consumption. When Santa Claus runs out of fresh blood treats from the "bleeders," (serfs) the parasite will blow a head gasket and go postal--tantrums, riots, rampages, and whatever else because they were not provided for. I see this potential locally even on my block; I can only imagine how bad it has gotten on a national level since the big drive for dependency started. When a group of people think that the world owes them and they don't get what they think they are owed, it gets ugly very quickly.
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Old 09-23-2013, 06:56 PM
 
12,735 posts, read 16,256,313 times
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#1: Nothing has been done to attack the root causes of the last one.
#2: Paralysis in the government.

The good news is that it would be collapsing from a diminished level. Even after five years it will take many more to build it up to where it was.
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Old 09-23-2013, 10:14 PM
Status: "Support the Mining Law of 1872" (set 26 days ago)
 
Location: Cody, WY
10,043 posts, read 12,093,860 times
Reputation: 20609
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
#1: Nothing has been done to attack the root causes of the last one.
#2: Paralysis in the government.

The good news is that it would be collapsing from a diminished level. Even after five years it will take many more to build it up to where it was.
I can think of nothing better than paralysis of the government. Private business can provide any services that government can and they can do it better and cheaper. Since business people want only customers, not slaves, there's no worry about suppression of freedom.

"The government that governs least governs best." Thomas Jefferson

(Not sure of exact words) "The government that governs perfectly governs not at all." Henry David Thoreau

Freedom must be the goal, not being a powerful nation.
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