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Heh. Fair enough, it should have said something like "IF THE PRESIDENT WERE IN CONTROL OF OUR ENERGY POLICY, I WOULD RATHER...."
Thank goodness he's not. Pretty much all he can do is get in the way, obstruct, and make pointless speeches about how we should all switch to wind and solar.
Hey I'm gung-ho about solar. I wish my house had solar cells on the roof. But the technology's just not there yet. Some day, we'll all be driving electric cars that go 1000 miles on a charge, and take 5 minutes to recharge, and most of our home and business electric needs will be met by rooftop solar or central solar or wind.
But those times are not yet upon us, and it certainly doesn't help that we've cut the national budget on science R&D let alone increased taxes on companies that reinvest their profits.
Government is slow and stupid. This was proven by the USSR, China, and Eastern Europe long ago. The way forward is through private enterprise and competition. Government enslaves. Private enterprise sets us free.
Government is slow and stupid. This was proven by the USSR, China, and Eastern Europe long ago. The way forward is through private enterprise and competition. Government enslaves. Private enterprise sets us free.
Too bad our government is owned by large corporate monopolies that do not want to see any competition and will milk the oil and gas train until they don't....
Too bad our government is owned by large corporate monopolies that do not want to see any competition and will milk the oil and gas train until they don't....
Nobody wants to see competition for themselves.
If you go in for a job interview, do you hope to see two dozen other people waiting for their interviews?
If you were literally hunting for your dinner, do you want to see another dozen hunters around you?
If you opened a new business, would you want five more businesses with the same products as you open?
The oil companies are in the oil business, why should they want competition?
The true problem is that businesses and their owners are able to purchase advantages from the government. And as long as we allow the government to take over more and more aspects of our lives and business and to keep making the tax system more and more convoluted, this will continue.
If the government were to be restricted to what its basic responsibilities are, competition would increase.
Too bad our government is owned by large corporate monopolies that do not want to see any competition and will milk the oil and gas train until they don't....
Oh....
Do you mean, like Solyndra, Tesla, and Solar City are doing?
Do you mean, like Solyndra, Tesla, and Solar City are doing?
OK whatever train, I don't care. All I want is an INDEPENDENT government FOR THE PEOPLE with no outside money in it and no special interests, oil or solar. However, I do think that for-profit people like the oil industry have enjoyed years and years of tax preference - something not many others have, while at the same time raking in enormous profits. People say "exploration is expensive" as if Shell is paying for it. It's not like they are going bankrupt, on the contrary they are raking it in at an increasing rate.
Let's face it, here is the bottom line: our dear profit chasing corporations aided by their paid for politicians have killed most of the jobs in the country and taken them elsewhere where slavery rules.
What is a man to do to feed a family? Jump on the first opportunity - which happens to be the Bakken or any other place oil and gas is coming out of. In this scenario, who cares if it is good or bad for the environment, if it is running out or not, if it is polluting the water table or not? People will come up with any justification that seems half true to rationalize what they are doing. "Rain follows the plow, rain follows the plow...."
If you go in for a job interview, do you hope to see two dozen other people waiting for their interviews?
I don't hope BUT there is nothing I can do about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez
If you opened a new business, would you want five more businesses with the same products as you open?
I thought competition was at the heart of capitalism? Are you a communist by any chance???
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez
The oil companies are in the oil business, why should they want competition?
What they WANT and what they are CAPABLE OF DOING are two different things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez
The true problem is that businesses and their owners are able to purchase advantages from the government. And as long as we allow the government to take over more and more aspects of our lives and business and to keep making the tax system more and more convoluted, this will continue.
If the government were to be restricted to what its basic responsibilities are, competition would increase.
Yes, we agree on this. Or the government itself can be in the business of providing competition, sometimes this works too. For example, rural internet is something that nobody wants to spend time on because it is not profitable. However, just like with the highway system, the government can lay in the fiber and OWN the lines which can then be leased out to people like Time Warner to operate and make profit on.
However, I do think that for-profit people like the oil industry have enjoyed years and years of tax preference - something not many others have, while at the same time raking in enormous profits.
Well, that's not really true according to factual reports I have read. Where do you get this notion that oil gets "tax preference"? Got any links for us other than i-hate-oil.com?
In fact, the oil industry receives no special breaks at all. Oil exploration companies get the same R&D and loss deductions that any other company gets. The fact is, Obama has tried to close up tax incentives that only apply to small, barely profitable oil companies. As usual, he gets it wrong and ends up accomplishing nothing other than killing jobs.
I especially like this comment from the above article:
Quote:
“Now my recollection of what a subsidy means is when you are given money to do something. I guess when I drilled 17 dry holes in a row I missed that pay window. No one sent me a check.” – Harold Hamm, Chairman and CEO of Continental Resources
Harold Hamm, for those who haven't heard, is an Oklahoma oil man who has been instrumental in fracking and thanks to him, the United States is probably going to surpass Saudi and Russia as the world's biggest oil producer in 2015.
Like it or hate it, fracking is here to stay and the geopolitical ramifications are enormous. Think of the trillions of dollars we have spent defending oil-rich regions and keeping them pro-American, not to mention thousands of lives lost. That's the real subsidy behind oil, not some fake tax breaks as claimed by liberals and greens.
Now you may ask-- should any company get deductions for investing and capital expenditures and losses? Well, the real question I would ask is--why do we tax corporations at all? American corporate tax rates are the highest in the world, or among the top 2-3 highest. We also have the world's highest liability and litigation costs, and when we have an anti-business administration and Congress, as we have in recent years, they will simply turn the screws on business thinking there's no downside, because folks like LordyLordy hate business anyway. What's not to love?
But corporate taxes are actually a form of double taxation. If your employer pays corporate taxes, as does nearly every American employer, then it's coming out of your salary, make no mistake. If you say, stick it to the businesses, make them pay their "fair share", then you will suffer. Those stuck businesses will hire fewer people, fire more people, try to outsource where possible, and your salary will not go up as much as you might like. It even might go down.
Well, that's not really true according to factual reports I have read. Where do you get this notion that oil gets "tax preference"? Got any links for us other than i-hate-oil.com?
In fact, the oil industry receives no special breaks at all. Oil exploration companies get the same R&D and loss deductions that any other company gets. The fact is, Obama has tried to close up tax incentives that only apply to small, barely profitable oil companies. As usual, he gets it wrong and ends up accomplishing nothing other than killing jobs.
I especially like this comment from the above article:
Harold Hamm, for those who haven't heard, is an Oklahoma oil man who has been instrumental in fracking and thanks to him, the United States is probably going to surpass Saudi and Russia as the world's biggest oil producer in 2015.
Like it or hate it, fracking is here to stay and the geopolitical ramifications are enormous. Think of the trillions of dollars we have spent defending oil-rich regions and keeping them pro-American, not to mention thousands of lives lost. That's the real subsidy behind oil, not some fake tax breaks as claimed by liberals and greens.
Now you may ask-- should any company get deductions for investing and capital expenditures and losses? Well, the real question I would ask is--why do we tax corporations at all? American corporate tax rates are the highest in the world, or among the top 2-3 highest. We also have the world's highest liability and litigation costs, and when we have an anti-business administration and Congress, as we have in recent years, they will simply turn the screws on business thinking there's no downside, because folks like LordyLordy hate business anyway. What's not to love?
But corporate taxes are actually a form of double taxation. If your employer pays corporate taxes, as does nearly every American employer, then it's coming out of your salary, make no mistake. If you say, stick it to the businesses, make them pay their "fair share", then you will suffer. Those stuck businesses will hire fewer people, fire more people, try to outsource where possible, and your salary will not go up as much as you might like. It even might go down.
You really have to be careful using logic and fact Blisterpeanuts, it can really upset those that only have emotionalism on their side
Well, that's not really true according to factual reports I have read. Where do you get this notion that oil gets "tax preference"? Got any links for us other than i-hate-oil.com?
In fact, the oil industry receives no special breaks at all. Oil exploration companies get the same R&D and loss deductions that any other company gets. The fact is, Obama has tried to close up tax incentives that only apply to small, barely profitable oil companies. As usual, he gets it wrong and ends up accomplishing nothing other than killing jobs.
Harold Hamm, for those who haven't heard, is an Oklahoma oil man who has been instrumental in fracking and thanks to him, the United States is probably going to surpass Saudi and Russia as the world's biggest oil producer in 2015.
Well yeah, that's the risk of doing business. I risk losing my job every day, you can start a business and it will not work out for you. So what? Are you suggesting that we should be subsidizing people for taking a risk in their businesses?
Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts
Like it or hate it, fracking is here to stay and the geopolitical ramifications are enormous. Think of the trillions of dollars we have spent defending oil-rich regions and keeping them pro-American, not to mention thousands of lives lost. That's the real subsidy behind oil, not some fake tax breaks as claimed by liberals and greens.
So you are openly admitting that we are "over there" for the oil? Hmmm. I thought we were protecting our soil and looking for the WMDs.
There is no free lunch. We may frack this Earth into oblivion and we are certainly on the way to do so. I ask you to open a map and find a place in United States that doesn't have fracking in boom or about to boom. Everywhere you turn around these things are popping up - even if you wanted to live away from it, you can't. You can't even buy land anymore without wondering whether someone will show up tomorrow to set up a rig and a trucking route on your property.
We are not tackling this problem from the proper point of view - instead of curbing consumption BY WAY OF PENALIZING IT, we are encouraging it and at the same time shouting how fracking will save us from the dependence. Great, we will be oil-independence-rich and clean-water-and-soil-poor. Hope you found a way to eat and drink oil! That's one heck of a trade-off. The truth is we cannot even have a proper discussion about these things since special interest is there to spend millions of dollars on propaganda. Even worse, the corporatocracy running the country has exported all the jobs to places like China and turned people into wage slaves with no alternatives. Now these people are jumping on the wagon of fracking. Guess who will be the most vocal proponents of fracking. Do you honestly think science and common sense and reason stand a chance in such an atmosphere?
Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts
American corporate tax rates are the highest in the world, or among the top 2-3 highest. We also have the world's highest liability and litigation costs, and when we have an anti-business administration and Congress, as we have in recent years, they will simply turn the screws on business thinking there's no downside, because folks like LordyLordy hate business anyway. What's not to love?
Wy to jump to conclusions. I do not "hate business" - what I hate is the current system of lobbying that allows the oil industry to spend $33 million per year to line the pockets of people who are SUPPOSED TO REPRESENT ME, not Shell or Exxon or Chevron. Is this really that difficult to comprehend?
Is this what our forefathers had in mind when it comes to lobbying? I think not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts
But corporate taxes are actually a form of double taxation. If your employer pays corporate taxes, as does nearly every American employer, then it's coming out of your salary, make no mistake. If you say, stick it to the businesses, make them pay their "fair share", then you will suffer. Those stuck businesses will hire fewer people, fire more people, try to outsource where possible, and your salary will not go up as much as you might like. It even might go down.
So this set of "corporate persons" is really the problem, esp. when coupled with unlimited political campaign contributions, armies of lobbyists and lawyers, no?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTSilvertip
You really have to be careful using logic and fact Blisterpeanuts, it can really upset those that only have emotionalism on their side
That the best you can do? I am trying to have a civilized conversation, these issues are something that will affect EVERYONE in one way or another and also affect EVERYTHING around you - water, soil, wildlife, plant life, EVERYTHING. Remember the rain following the plow....
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Are you a communist by any chance??? 
