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Long before even that. For instance the industrial revolution would never have been possible without government intervention. The development of standardized machine tools to almost 100 years to get to the point where they were precise and uniform enough to really be of use and no private company was going to spend money for that long without a return on investment but national militaries did mainly because they wanted standardized bores for cannons and firearms as well as standardized munitions. The British, French, American, etc... Governments all poured in large amounts of research and grant money into solving the standardization problem for decade after decade and like so many large government programs the knock on effects from the new technology were amazing for local economies.
We could talk about how most rail roads would never have been built without massive, and I do mean MASSIVE, government subsidies, or we could talk about the petro chemical industry or really just the chemicals industry in general most of which happened because of government grants in research, not to mention programs like NASA. The people who claim government doesn't and/or shouldn't be involved in pushing the ball forward on technology are completely ignorant on how major technological advancements have usually been made in the past especially in the last 200-400 years.
And finally we can also talk about the government backed "plow follows the rain" plan to settle the plains, a plan that came back a few decades later to bite everyone in the a** in the form of huge dust storms...
I doubt these innovations will be allowed to benefit the people. This technology will be carefully distributed, priced, regulated and taxed to ensure maximum profit and tax revenue with minimum utility to the average joe.
There are some innovative alternative energy "projects" out there. Open source has been a model that more are embracing to get around some of the limitations. Other countries have seemed to be more open when it comes to the zoning/regulation issues, which is the other restriction other than the whole patent model.
RepRap - RepRapWiki
quote: RepRap is about making self-replicating machines, and making them freely available for the benefit of everyone. We are using 3D printing to do this, but if you have other technologies that can copy themselves and that can be made freely available to all, then this is the place for you too.
Have you had it yet with high utility bills? Do nuclear power plants make you nervous? Do "smart meters" and the "smart grid" give you indigestion? Would you like to be able to power your own home when the grid goes down? If SolarCity and Tesla have their way, those worries could soon be in your rear-view mirror:
We are off-grid now, but many city residents are required to connect to the local utility. Those days may be over soon, too. Our battery bank consists of eight 12-volt lead-acid cells that require periodic maintenance, a chore that no one really cares to do (or has time). Yet, in order to store the juice that our 1700 watts of solar panels produce, we need to find time for that chore.
With these new lithium-ion batteries, that may all be history. You may be familiar with these batteries; tiny versions of them power your cell phones and tablets. In fact, when we moved here in June, we bought a couple of the L-ion USB charging batteries to keep everything powered. I had looked at those little power packs and thought...hmmm, wouldn't it be nice to have a larger one, to power the whole house?
Predictably, the utilty suppliers are not crazy about this. Their income stream is about to take a big hit. But their day is over; modern technology will make them irrelevant. And a side benefit will be lower exposure to the effects of EMP. We don't have the $$$ to upgrade the power grid anyway; now we might not have to!
do you happen to have a link for a company that tells about these batteries and that sells tem?
even if the tax benefits go away, I would still invest in this if it turns out to be worth the cost for my home and ranch.
I know only that Panasonic has been chosen to manufacture the batteries for Tesla. I cannot find any batteries yet being made for home power uses, but soon will be (which is why I said it was "just around the corner"). The idea of Tesla, is to incorporate the battery into the car (natch) and have it garaged near an outlet that, should grid power fail, the household could depend upon the battery in the car to run the household. The battery folks picked up the ball and ran with it from there. Here's an article from HomePower magazine that will serve as a primer for these batteries:
You can also research LFP batteries (LiFePO4, or lithium iron phosphate). They weigh 1/3 of lead-acids, take up 1/2 the space, operate at lower temps, can be deep-discharged without harm, require little maintenance, and have a much longer lifespan (~ 20 years). They do cost more now, but I'd expect the price to come down, as it does with all new technologies.
Some background and information. WhoKilledthe Electric Car?
quote:
The second generation EV1 (and those released by Honda, Toyota, and others) from 1998 to the end of the program, featured nickel-metal or even lithium (Nissan) batteries with a ranges of about 100 or more miles. The film documents that the company which had supplied batteries for EV1, Ovonics, had been suppressed from announcing improved batteries, with double the range, lest CARB be influenced that batteries were improving. Later, General Motors sold the supplier's majority control share to Chevron/Cobasys. As part of the not-guilty verdict, the famed engineer Alan Cocconi explains that with laptop computer lithium ion batteries, the EV1 could have been upgraded to a range of 300 miles per charge. He makes this point in front of his T-Zero prototype, the car that inspired the Tesla Roadster.
What's the big deal about being off-grid? My electric bill is about $20 per month. Of course here in Los Angeles we do not need much heat nor do we need all that much air conditioning. I realize that in other parts of the country, people can pay hundreds of dollars a month in utility bills. But even so, the initial cost of the various equipment to be off-grid will make it years and years before one breaks even.
I would like the OP to state how much he has spent to be off-grid.
What's the big deal about being off-grid? My electric bill is about $20 per month. Of course here in Los Angeles we do not need much heat nor do we need all that much air conditioning. I realize that in other parts of the country, people can pay hundreds of dollars a month in utility bills. But even so, the initial cost of the various equipment to be off-grid will make it years and years before one breaks even.
I would like the OP to state how much he has spent to be off-grid.
Electric bill could be part of utilities, but yeah 20 dollars is extremely unusual. There is also gas and water/sewer. Have never seen or heard of one so low. In LA, really? If one is not using AC or heat then that would make a big difference. Usual 35-50 is just the administrative part of a utility bill. Off grid living is not really encouraged by govt. Not in US anyway. Off grid is about self-sufficiency/sustainability and cost control though.
What's the big deal about being off-grid? My electric bill is about $20 per month. Of course here in Los Angeles we do not need much heat nor do we need all that much air conditioning. I realize that in other parts of the country, people can pay hundreds of dollars a month in utility bills. But even so, the initial cost of the various equipment to be off-grid will make it years and years before one breaks even.
I would like the OP to state how much he has spent to be off-grid.
You can't be _that_ ignorant to ask a question like that now? Me thinks you are trolling
But even so, the initial cost of the various equipment to be off-grid will make it years and years before one breaks even.
I would like the OP to state how much he has spent to be off-grid.
You are correct that there is some up-front investment, but it is not a lot. Here in the northeast, $150 per month in electric bills is not unusual. I have not heard of anyone hereabouts, paying $20 per month.
My first investment was $1,000 for 2 new solar panels. I will never buy new again, unless prices come down. Since that time, I was able to get 5 additional, slightly dented (but fully functional) panels for free, and now have 1750 watts of solar power. I recommend getting to know a solar panel installer!
The 8 lead-acid, deep-cycle batteries cost me about $300 each, for another $2400. Charge controller, inverter, battery monitor, and panel connections ran another $600 +/-. I am not going to include house wiring and Anderson Powerpole connectors, because all new housing has some expense for wiring and outlets, and ours was less than most. Also not including the 3 generators because we had them before, and many people have generators.
Pretty much we're looking at about $4000 tops for my investment in home power. That does not include any tax credits because we do not take them, on advice of private counsel. No doubt, getting those solar panels for "free" was a big help, and I encourage other people to look into that. The real savings for us was being able to purchase 33 acres of prime, high and dry land for half the cost of a similar lot that would be within easy connection distance to power lines. So I figure we came out ahead -- WAY ahead. And when the frostly winds blow the snow around this winter, and the grid goes down, we won't even notice it!
Any new technologies that come along will get my attention. That's why I brought it to your attention.
What's the big deal about being off-grid? My electric bill is about $20 per month. Of course here in Los Angeles we do not need much heat nor do we need all that much air conditioning. I realize that in other parts of the country, people can pay hundreds of dollars a month in utility bills. But even so, the initial cost of the various equipment to be off-grid will make it years and years before one breaks even.
I would like the OP to state how much he has spent to be off-grid.
look at it then from this forums name. would you not like to have this kind of battery if the power in all of California cut off for an excess of 2 weeks? what would it be like not to be able to get any water at all or have your fridge running?
questions like this is why people post subjects like this.
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