U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Self-Sufficiency and Preparedness
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 09-03-2014, 04:41 PM
 
8,487 posts, read 5,102,803 times
Reputation: 1107

Advertisements

Not completely sure of all the details here. Only what I have read. This seems it could be an issue in other states also from what I have seen. This forum seems appropriate for those who may have an interest in this, particularly Permaculture design. I saw no news coverage of this at all. (IIRC this county also had a big issue over the county commissioners taking Fluoride out of the water for about a year, then putting it back in.)

We Grow From Here & Growing Together - Fellowship for Intentional Community
quote:
Begun as both Karma Yoga and a Landmark Education Leadership project, the goal for “We Grow From Here” was to attain 75% personal food independence for all involved, as well as ‘produce’ing a steady stream of fresh, healthy abundance to local food banks, homeless shelters, and soup kitchens. (It came closer to 90% within 9 months!)

Update on the Court Case for Casa Seranita and Growing Food in Pinellas County
quote:
I have also learned some things about these codes–such as I may have been completely within my rights to begin with (see: ambiguity), since the residents of the house at the time the initial violations were reported were involved in the project. Not only that, but the whole project completely falls within the reasonable boundaries of what is defined as ‘special exceptions’.


Support Statewide Recognition of Permaculture Design Certification Petition
quote:
Although I have attempted to comply with their requests, I've still been cited and fined, and the court date to appear to plead my case is August 8th at 8:30AM at the Pinellas County Circuit Court, 14250 49th St., third floor, room 15.
...
Once I have my 'day in court', I will be focused on obtaining a State-level recognition of the education we receive in a Permaculture Design Course (PDC), and how that can benefit our communities. If our expertise were recognized, we could potentially have some sort of permitting available for installations, preventing county or city zoning departments from harassment.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-03-2014, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Cody, WY
7,541 posts, read 8,340,297 times
Reputation: 13923
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDusr View Post
Not completely sure of all the details here. Only what I have read. This seems it could be an issue in other states also from what I have seen. This forum seems appropriate for those who may have an interest in this, particularly Permaculture design. I saw no news coverage of this at all. (IIRC this county also had a big issue over the county commissioners taking Fluoride out of the water for about a year, then putting it back in.)

We Grow From Here & Growing Together - Fellowship for Intentional Community
quote:
Begun as both Karma Yoga and a Landmark Education Leadership project, the goal for “We Grow From Here” was to attain 75% personal food independence for all involved, as well as ‘produce’ing a steady stream of fresh, healthy abundance to local food banks, homeless shelters, and soup kitchens. (It came closer to 90% within 9 months!)

Update on the Court Case for Casa Seranita and Growing Food in Pinellas County
quote:
I have also learned some things about these codes–such as I may have been completely within my rights to begin with (see: ambiguity), since the residents of the house at the time the initial violations were reported were involved in the project. Not only that, but the whole project completely falls within the reasonable boundaries of what is defined as ‘special exceptions’.


Support Statewide Recognition of Permaculture Design Certification Petition
quote:
Although I have attempted to comply with their requests, I've still been cited and fined, and the court date to appear to plead my case is August 8th at 8:30AM at the Pinellas County Circuit Court, 14250 49th St., third floor, room 15.
...
Once I have my 'day in court', I will be focused on obtaining a State-level recognition of the education we receive in a Permaculture Design Course (PDC), and how that can benefit our communities. If our expertise were recognized, we could potentially have some sort of permitting available for installations, preventing county or city zoning departments from harassment.
The name of this forum is Self-Sufficiency and Preparedness (survivalism). That means we have our own places and grow our own crops irrespective of method. Permiculture (please note the correct spelling) can provide us with valuable growing techniques which are useful in a number of environments. However, the gibberish about helping social detritus is contrary to the survivalist philosophy. I live where I do because these people don't. The last people I wish as neighbors are those who would either operate or patronize food banks, soup kitchens, homeless shelters, etc. They're the reason we have guns.

Many, if not most, of us have organic gardens, regularly compost, and maintain our holdings in a manner that protects the environment. The underclass have clearly illustrated the fact that they do not. They litter, defecate in the street, and destroy any environment they encounter. When they die their drug-soaked corpses wouldn't so much as make safe meals for scavengers.

You need to decide whether you support self-sufficiency or the squealing and parasitic swarms of Obama supporters.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-03-2014, 06:08 PM
 
8,487 posts, read 5,102,803 times
Reputation: 1107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming View Post
The name of this forum is Self-Sufficiency and Preparedness (survivalism). That means we have our own places and grow our own crops irrespective of method. Permiculture (please note the correct spelling) can provide us with valuable growing techniques which are useful in a number of environments. However, the gibberish about helping social detritus is contrary to the survivalist philosophy. I live where I do because these people don't. The last people I wish as neighbors are those who would either operate or patronize food banks, soup kitchens, homeless shelters, etc. They're the reason we have guns.

Many, if not most, of us have organic gardens, regularly compost, and maintain our holdings in a manner that protects the environment. The underclass have clearly illustrated the fact that they do not. They litter, defecate in the street, and destroy any environment they encounter. When they die their drug-soaked corpses wouldn't so much as make safe meals for scavengers.

You need to decide whether you support self-sufficiency or the squealing and parasitic swarms of Obama supporters.
I can appreciate your strong opinions. You seem highly judgmental and condemning, however. A highly polarized "either" "or" mentality is not required. That is a personal choice.

(regarding spelling)
Permaculture | Define Permaculture at Dictionary.com

Someone supporting and sharing with those in need in their community, in an educational manner, is not only about compassion, but self-sufficiency. Self-sustainability/self-sufficiency does not exclude community. It is not about being an island. Obama has nothing to do with this either.

The petition relates to recognizing Permaculture Design certification at a state level.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-04-2014, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
27,598 posts, read 43,283,419 times
Reputation: 14396
Many of our friends are into permaculture. It reminds me very much of Amway, in it's cult-like following.

I have attended a number of events hosting by our local p. group, as an organic farmer I have even facilitated a few of their events. I find most of their material to be re-hashing of my old horticulture textbooks, with some Mother Earth stuff and some new-age doctrine thrown in.

I have a copy of the PDC. My Dw sat through an online PDC course for the first 10 lessons or so. She stopped as she had not seen anything presented in the PDC that we had not been previously exposed to.

If you are new to gardening, and if you want a class about gardening, instead of actually gardening, than I could see a person going through it.

You can also contact your local Cooperative Extension Office and enroll in a Master Gardener class, which is a very good class. Or better yet, go to college like I did and get a degree in horticulture.

btw, our local State Uni offers permie as a grad major. They also have an on-campus permie group residence.



Now this petition, asking for your state to 'recognize' the PDC, what do you think that recognizing it will do?

Do you think that as a Master Gardener [a government issued label], that you would suddenly have some additional right or privilege that you do not currently have?

City Planning and Code enforcement offices will still exist. They will still write codes and attempt to enforce them. Regardless of you being 'recognized', you will still need to comply with the zoning code of your city. When you choose to live in an urban setting with restrictive zoning, that was/is your choice.

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-04-2014, 07:20 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 1,310,306 times
Reputation: 1421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post

You can also contact your local Cooperative Extension Office and enroll in a Master Gardener class, which is a very good class. Or better yet, go to college like I did and get a degree in horticulture.

Do you think that as a Master Gardener [a government issued label], that you would suddenly have some additional right or privilege that you do not currently have?
Is Master Gardener that piece of paper that says that you cannot use its title in any commercial capacity?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-04-2014, 07:27 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 1,310,306 times
Reputation: 1421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming View Post
The underclass have clearly illustrated the fact that they do not. They litter, defecate in the street, and destroy any environment they encounter. When they die their drug-soaked corpses wouldn't so much as make safe meals for scavengers.
Do you mean prescription drug soaked or just plain old illegal drug soaked? 'Cause many many Americans are legally drugged for one thing or another by their doctors, believe it or not, even the well to do ones

Happy, curious - who makes the money from pipelines, huge mountain-top stripping mines, river and ground water polluting livestock prison camps and other environmentally destructive activities? Is it the masses of unwashed or is it the rich and comfy and phat CEOs and their immediate suites?

Not that I disagree completely, the problem is that everything with a pulse propagates. Excessive baby-making will turn every place into an environmental desert.However, our economy is a pie-in-the-sky built on the idea that it will be adding more and more new consumers each year and this kind of economy needs all the people who can't afford the $700 iPhone, the big TV, the fast food poison etc. to exist.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-04-2014, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Cody, WY
7,541 posts, read 8,340,297 times
Reputation: 13923
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordyLordy View Post
Do you mean prescription drug soaked or just plain old illegal drug soaked? 'Cause many many Americans are legally drugged for one thing or another by their doctors, believe it or not, even the well to do ones
I was thinking of people who devote their lives to satisfying their drug habits. These people consider themselves above work, but they are very willing to beg, steal, and murder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordLordy View Post
Happy, curious - who makes the money from pipelines, huge mountain-top stripping mines, river and ground water polluting livestock prison camps and other environmentally destructive activities? Is it the masses of unwashed or is it the rich and comfy and phat CEOs and their immediate suites?
Everyone who is a willing or unwilling member of the economy. That includes holy men who beg for alms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordyLordy View Post
Not that I disagree completely, the problem is that everything with a pulse propagates. Excessive baby-making will turn every place into an environmental desert.However, our economy is a pie-in-the-sky built on the idea that it will be adding more and more new consumers each year and this kind of economy needs all the people who can't afford the $700 iPhone, the big TV, the fast food poison etc. to exist.
Unfortunately, I must agree. But I've never propagated. I oppose free medical care for the poor. I support spay-neuter for animals with my money and I would give money to sterilize humans. I don't have an iPhone or a television. To the extent that it's practical, I don't eat processed food. I believe that I'm a rather wonderful person.

Fifty million people was a good population for 1880; we must strive to reach that number again.

Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood, strongly believed in eugenics as well as family planning. Remove all breeding incentives: tax breaks, welfare, etc. Start taxing childbirth at 50k each. Let parents pay for their children's education. I guarantee we'll not only have a smaller population, we'll have a better one. We can let government shrink to a shadow of what it is today.

Did I hear someone ask what happens if the parents can't pay the 50k? The answer is that there'd be some nice foetal material to be sold to the highest bidder. It sure beats an income tax.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-04-2014, 11:59 PM
 
8,487 posts, read 5,102,803 times
Reputation: 1107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
Many of our friends are into permaculture. It reminds me very much of Amway, in it's cult-like following.

I have attended a number of events hosting by our local p. group, as an organic farmer I have even facilitated a few of their events. I find most of their material to be re-hashing of my old horticulture textbooks, with some Mother Earth stuff and some new-age doctrine thrown in.

I have a copy of the PDC. My Dw sat through an online PDC course for the first 10 lessons or so. She stopped as she had not seen anything presented in the PDC that we had not been previously exposed to.

If you are new to gardening, and if you want a class about gardening, instead of actually gardening, than I could see a person going through it.

You can also contact your local Cooperative Extension Office and enroll in a Master Gardener class, which is a very good class. Or better yet, go to college like I did and get a degree in horticulture.

btw, our local State Uni offers permie as a grad major. They also have an on-campus permie group residence.



Now this petition, asking for your state to 'recognize' the PDC, what do you think that recognizing it will do?

Do you think that as a Master Gardener [a government issued label], that you would suddenly have some additional right or privilege that you do not currently have?

City Planning and Code enforcement offices will still exist. They will still write codes and attempt to enforce them. Regardless of you being 'recognized', you will still need to comply with the zoning code of your city. When you choose to live in an urban setting with restrictive zoning, that was/is your choice.

First, it is not my petition. Secondly, this particular issue arose out of an ambiguity in the code. This person, as far as I know was up front and believed in compliance. The county did not seem to be co-operating, rather the opposite. I believe the intent is to further clarify so there is less ambiguity. It may relate to "special exceptions". However, overall awareness and appreciation for any such agricultural studies would seem beneficial. (The excerpts I included I thought clarified this)Zoning has been changing. Even rural zones are being affected. The Miami couple had a 17 year old garden that suddenly was "illegal" just last year iirc.

AG21, which is corporate planning for the entire US is changing zoning restrictions everywhere. Awareness of regional and master planning in any area is very important. What areas are you referencing that are un-zoned and unrestricted? Some just much more restricted than others. Rural does not mean no zone or restrictions.

Last edited by CDusr; 09-05-2014 at 12:09 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-05-2014, 06:01 AM
 
Location: Backwoods of Maine
6,439 posts, read 6,544,438 times
Reputation: 15780
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDusr View Post
AG21, which is corporate planning for the entire US is changing zoning restrictions everywhere. Awareness of regional and master planning in any area is very important. What areas are you referencing that are un-zoned and unrestricted? Some just much more restricted than others. Rural does not mean no zone or restrictions.
I don't think Submariner was referring to "rural" per se. He was referring to a section of northern Maine (where I also live) where there are unincorporated townships and such low population densities that enforcement of zoning restrictions would be prohibitive, given the vast areas involved and the limited manpower available. In such northerly, sparsely-inhabited and thickly-forested places such as we live, there remains a freedom that you won't find in any urban or suburban, populated area. The UN cannot repeal the law of diminishing returns, after all.

That is the reason why I live up here. I'll wager that it's the reason Sub does, also!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-05-2014, 03:55 PM
 
8,487 posts, read 5,102,803 times
Reputation: 1107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor'Eastah View Post
I don't think Submariner was referring to "rural" per se. He was referring to a section of northern Maine (where I also live) where there are unincorporated townships and such low population densities that enforcement of zoning restrictions would be prohibitive, given the vast areas involved and the limited manpower available. In such northerly, sparsely-inhabited and thickly-forested places such as we live, there remains a freedom that you won't find in any urban or suburban, populated area. The UN cannot repeal the law of diminishing returns, after all.

That is the reason why I live up here. I'll wager that it's the reason Sub does, also!
As I said Regional and Master plans are areas that should be paid close attention. This is going on everywhere. Talking about corporate planning and following the money. I understand the rationale, but many are unaware of what is going on with a low profile until they bump against it. The returns are most definitely there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?fv=ve2WFZYo1KY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_-XMTauRsA

THE BEGINNING OF THE END…..WHEN SALT LAKE COUNTY LOST ITS SHERIFF’S DEPARTMENT « The Unmasking of Maine….and Beyond

Apparently, Josephine county has some interesting...
quote:
Here is the Regional Investment strategy for that area. Covers PPP's, including SOREDI. Also list the Rural Action Plan.
Jackson-Josephine 2007-2013 Regional Investment Strategy

SOREDI: A Major Threat to Mining in Josephine County?
quote:
The draft proposal, known as the 2011-2016 Josephine County Economic Development Strategic Plan not only aims to make Josephine County a "sustainable community" through so-called "smart growth", but also seeks to change our current method of government through methods of so-called "revision" and "modernization". As we all know, these terms are the language of so-called environmentalists that are thrown at the general public in an attempt to justify the theft of private property and to destroy the traditional economies of a given area. What SOREDI is proposing could best be summed up as being the same type of system which was pushed onto the people of Spain, which ultimately resulted in the complete unraveling of their economy and an upheaval of civil unrest.


The Master Plan: Agenda 21 In Action

Technology also comes into play here.
Largest Telecommunications Project in the History of the United States

The Internet of Cops Is Coming
quote:

Although those behind FirstNet are currently getting individual states ready for consultation periods on the project, it is already being tested in various locales, including California, North Carolina, New Mexico, Colorado, Mississippi and New Jersey. When POLITICO tried to get documents relating to FirstNet's development from one of these areas' respective Sheriff Departments, the Department of Justice—in an unusual move—stepped in, and stopped any details being released by them. “For some reason, the DOJ is really, really opposed to the public having access to timely and accurate information about how this thing is actually being rolled out,” Kade continued.
Exacerbating this further is the fact some documents, and in particular financial records of the $7 billion project, have been withheld from select members of the FirstNet board, and some have been barred from meetings. After an internal investigation, a subsequent report found that “these biweekly sessions informed later public debate.”

Last edited by CDusr; 09-05-2014 at 05:11 PM.. Reason: included link
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Self-Sufficiency and Preparedness

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2017, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 - Top