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Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
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Everyone except Arleigh seems to think that canned goods deteriorate or degrade over a relatively short period of time. Nonsense. They last decades with at most a slight change in flavor. The food did react with the metal in oldfashioned cans many years ago, but now they have an extremely thin barrier to prevent that.
You can make dried food, but usually that doesn't last more than a year or two unless you package it very carefully. Also it's hard to get the right degree of dehydration, too much and it won't reconstitute no matter how long you cook it, too little and it will go bad. The main good point of it is that it can be done cheaply at home in vast quantities with a $30 dehydrator.
Freeze dried food is very high quality, durable, and convenient, but it's very costly and you can't make it at home. This is what the backpacker's meals are made of, pour in some boiling water and it's perfectly reconstituted in 5 minutes, tasting like fresh. Sealed in their original pouches, these meals will last far longer than dried, over 20 years from what I've heard. However the individual meals are way too low in calories and especially in fat, which is a vital nutrient over the long haul. Without fat or oil in the diet, you will get more and more insatiably hungry over time, just as with "rabbit starvation".
Everyone except Arleigh seems to think that canned goods deteriorate or degrade over a relatively short period of time. Nonsense. They last decades with at most a slight change in flavor. The food did react with the metal in oldfashioned cans many years ago, but now they have an extremely thin barrier to prevent that.
A supply of canned goods is relatively cheap and has a long shelf life, far longer than shown on the cans. Meat and fish keep the best, then vegetables, then fruits. Tomato products have the poorest practical shelf life. The food never becomes poisonous. It loses its taste and nutritional value.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof
Freeze dried food is very high quality, durable, and convenient, but it's very costly and you can't make it at home. This is what the backpacker's meals are made of, pour in some boiling water and it's perfectly reconstituted in 5 minutes, tasting like fresh. Sealed in their original pouches, these meals will last far longer than dried, over 20 years from what I've heard. However the individual meals are way too low in calories and especially in fat, which is a vital nutrient over the long haul. Without fat or oil in the diet, you will get more and more insatiably hungry over time, just as with "rabbit starvation".
Pouches of freeze-dried foods have much shorter shelf lives than the same foods packed in cans. Unlike canned foods, freeze-dried and commercially dehydrated foods do require water to reconstitute. Their primary virtue is weight and convenience. A necesssity for the traveler on foot, they're generally an expensive luxury in a fixed location. Certain items are worthwhile in fixed locations. Butter, cheese, and powdered milk are available in cans. Try them before you buy a huge supply.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy
I really don't relish the thought of having to work my butt off at a soul-killing but high-paying job just so that I can prepare to live an agrarian life. Back in the day, people just lived agrarian lives and didn't have to be independently wealthy in order to buy it.
Unless you're born to wealth, that's the only way to begin. Starting a business and investing wisely can hasten the process as you progress, but there will always be toil whether mental or physical. That applies to everyone from Bill Gates to the bum in the alley. However, successful people have always found joy in their work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy
I would be curious to figure out exactly how said people intend to feed themselves into perpetuity after the excrement hits the rotating cooling device. With no property worth speaking of, there is no place to grow food nor raise animals.
There'll always be commerce. Be able to find or produce something people will buy whether it's alcohol, coal, or magic beads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabrrita
It's a SHTF scenario do you really think I'm worried about all the other people or just myself and my group?
I'm also confused why you think anyone will respect your property rights during a SHTF scenario. Your land will becomes the target for whomever has the power and force to take it from you. The more productive your land is at the onset, the more desirable it will be.
Also if the SHTF, what is the likelihood that government will be concerned about who is now squatting on their vacant land? So you come across a FHA foreclosed abandon farm in the middle of nowhere and what are you going to do, look at the No Trespassing sign stuck to the door and say "geez, US property, gotta move on", or are you saying, "oh boy, free land and a house"? If your playing the SHTF scenario fantasy card, don't stop at the stuff that fulfills your dreams, go for the true reality.
People will quickly form local associations to eliminate those who don't respect either individual property or the rules of the community. During frontier days in this country there were generally only three penalties: banishment, flogging or branding, and death. No society has ever tolerated chaos and anarchy.
A supply of canned goods is relatively cheap and has a long shelf life, far longer than shown on the cans. Meat and fish keep the best, then vegetables, then fruits. Tomato products have the poorest practical shelf life. The food never becomes poisonous. It loses its taste and nutritional value.
Make sure you get BPA-free cans. Tomatoes and other acidic foods eat into the lining of the cans and cause cancer. Of course, this was discovered after decades of poisoning the public.
In addition, most canned goods must be acidified to preserve them longer (and it's the law). This causes the food to be as acidic as the inside of your stomach. As a consequence, there is an epidemic of silent reflux across the country - people with chronic coughs, throat mucus, throat clearing that will not stop, hoarseness, asthma symptoms etc. You can go undiagnosed or misdiagnosed for years since nobody thinks cough is related to stomach acid refluxing into your throat without any symptoms of heartburn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming
Unless you're born to wealth, that's the only way to begin. Starting a business and investing wisely can hasten the process as you progress, but there will always be toil whether mental or physical. That applies to everyone from Bill Gates to the bum in the alley. However, successful people have always found joy in their work.
Well, Bill Gates was born into a wealthy family. There are many, many people who are doing well who are born into wealth. But yes, it is possible to make it out there on your own, I should know. This is called "upward mobility" and by every measure United States has fallen behind other industrialized countries, even Canada - it is actually easier today to "make it" in Canada if you are poor than in USA. The huge wealth imbalance in this country, coupled with the way our politics works (money for votes in Senate/Congress) is crippling our country.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming
No society has ever tolerated chaos and anarchy.
Hmm. There are many societies that have existed in perpetual state of anarchy and chaos - look at many ex-British colonies in Africa for an example.
... However the individual meals are way too low in calories and especially in fat, which is a vital nutrient over the long haul. Without fat or oil in the diet, you will get more and more insatiably hungry over time, just as with "rabbit starvation".
We have neighbors who went through rabbit starvation a couple years ago. They were close friends, they did not experience any 'insatiable hunger'. They did not suffer from lack of caloric intake, but from the fat. Their teeth began falling out. The process of diagnosing the problem was slow for them. They did not figure out the cause of the problem and take corrective measures, until nearly all of their teeth were gone, and by then it was too late,
In addition, most canned goods must be acidified to preserve them longer (and it's the law). This causes the food to be as acidic as the inside of your stomach. As a consequence, there is an epidemic of silentreflux across the country - people with chronic coughs, throat mucus, throat clearing that will not stop, hoarseness, asthma symptoms etc. You can go undiagnosed or misdiagnosed for years since nobody thinks cough is related to stomach acid refluxing into your throat without any symptoms of heartburn.
A little chemistry may be instructive here.
The pH scale goes from 0 to 14, with the lower numbers being acidic, and the higher ones being alkaline. 7 is neutral. Hydrochloric acid ("stomach acid") in a healthy person has a pH from 1 to 3 (very acidic). This state of affairs is normal, as the acid activates digestive enzymes. This high acidity does not harm the stomach or the health of its owner; it helps. Even the most acidic canned foods - tomatoes - have a pH of 3.5 to 4.7, which is far less acidic than stomach acid, and again, does no harm to healthy individuals. There is no such thing as "canned food as acidic as the inside of your stomach". It would be inedible.
Acid reflux is usually a consequence of aging, a result of poor habits of a lifetime. Excess weight, smoking, alcohol, hiatal hernia caused by weight or bad lifting techniques, coffee/carbonated beverages...is it any wonder that all Americans don't suffer from acid reflux? But many of us do not, despite eating canned goods "acidified...to be as acidic as the inside of your stomach". No such thing, people!
The pH scale goes from 0 to 14, with the lower numbers being acidic, and the higher ones being alkaline. 7 is neutral. Hydrochloric acid ("stomach acid") in a healthy person has a pH from 1 to 3 (very acidic). This state of affairs is normal, as the acid activates digestive enzymes. This high acidity does not harm the stomach or the health of its owner; it helps. Even the most acidic canned foods - tomatoes - have a pH of 3.5 to 4.7, which is far less acidic than stomach acid, and again, does no harm to healthy individuals. There is no such thing as "canned food as acidic as the inside of your stomach". It would be inedible.
Acid reflux is usually a consequence of aging, a result of poor habits of a lifetime. Excess weight, smoking, alcohol, hiatal hernia caused by weight or bad lifting techniques, coffee/carbonated beverages...is it any wonder that all Americans don't suffer from acid reflux? But many of us do not, despite eating canned goods "acidified...to be as acidic as the inside of your stomach". No such thing, people!
OK so a little science is in order here.
Pepsin is an enzyme that lives in the stomach. It gets activated by acid, it is active mostly in the low range but can be active at higher ph values. Pepsin's job is to break down/cleave protein. What happens is that pepsins gets regurgitated into the esophagus (this is called heartburn) and the esophagus is well equipped to handle pepsin so it takes decades of multiple daily exposures to heartburn to destroy the lining of the esophagus. However, it turns out that your larynx, throat and trachea do not have the same defenses as the esophagus. So when you regurgitate pepsin into your larynx it starts "living" there. Since it gets activated by low ph values (acidic foods), every time you eat something below ph 4, pepsin gets activated in your larynx and starts breaking down protein. The only problem is that the protein being broken down is your voice box. Pepsin can travel as gas (yes, as gas) into your lungs and nose. You can get asthma like symptoms from it and be treated for asthma for 20 years and still not get better. You can have a cough (lung irritation), post-nasal drip and excess mucus in throat since your throat is trying to defend itself.
By the way, the ph scale is logarithmic! This means that ph 4 is 10 times more acidic than ph 5 and 100 times more acidic than ph 6!
Yes, ultimately it comes down to diet. If you eat ALL your food for 4 weeks where your food is >5 ph, your throat will heal. However, if you go back to canned goods, coffee, caffeinated teas, alcohol, chocolate etc. - you will very quickly ruin it again.
Or you can spend the rest of your life on Prilosec or Zantac.
Well, Bill Gates was born into a wealthy family. There are many, many people who are doing well who are born into wealth. But yes, it is possible to make it out there on your own, I should know. This is called "upward mobility" and by every measure United States has fallen behind other industrialized countries, even Canada - it is actually easier today to "make it" in Canada if you are poor than in USA. The huge wealth imbalance in this country, coupled with the way our politics works (money for votes in Senate/Congress) is crippling our country.
Rich people must be as careful as anyone else in order to keep their money. Bill Gates has in recent years failed at this with his African charity ventures.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordyLordy
Hmm. There are many societies that have existed in perpetual state of anarchy and chaos - look at many ex-British colonies in Africa for an example.
Primitive societies often have strict codes and remove outlaws. Tribal governments happily kill criminals. But as you well know, I was talking about this country.
.... by every measure United States has fallen behind other industrialized countries, even Canada....
Not really.
There is only one country with a republican form of government.
Ironically, its people don't even know it or can accurately define it.
(No, it is not a "constitutional republic" - the world is full of constitutional republics - but they are NOT republican forms.)
...
However, I will grant that since 1933, and the rise of the benevolent totalitarian police state under the control of collectivists and usurers, it has been execrable.
AS the imminent "big thump" approaches, I suspect that the fall of modern civilization will be quite lethal to a large portion of humanity. Unfortunately, the Powers That Be can foresee no other way to eradicate that pesky Constitution and the republican form of government.
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,297 posts, read 14,157,672 times
Reputation: 8105
No, Jetgraphics, the PTB are not going to eliminate the system that serves them so well, nor will they simply kill a high percentage of the human race out of sheer malice.
They're not united in purpose. Each one of them is highly ambitious and works mainly to exercise control over the world, and they might mostly be doing it because they each think they are best suited for ultimate authority, they know what's best for humanity.
However since they work at cross-purposes with different specific goals, they may accidentally cause the collapse of the world economy and possibly even create a world war.
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