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Old 02-19-2015, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
7,840 posts, read 9,170,294 times
Reputation: 13779

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The SHTF scenario where some kind of sudden, apocalyptic event somehow does away with all vestiges of civilization from electrical power to law enforcement all over the world for an infinite period of time is simply the stuff of stupid science fiction (stupid as in dumb idea - science fiction is not necessarily stupid) that's fed by a few people with limited actual knowledge but access to the popular media. That's the very kind of stupidity that fed the Y2K hysteria.

I'm with mooksmom that much of this end-of-civilization prepper stuff comes from people who are simply paranoid. What kind of event could affect the entire world? The explosion of the Yellowstone Caldera? A direct hit by an asteroid? It's unlikely that less severe events would affect more than a portion of the US, and not necessarily for a long extended period, either.

Furthermore, evidence from disasters all over the world suggests that the prepper scenario in which the absence of civil order results in "every man for himself" chaos is nonsense. From the Mt St Helen's explosion to the Chernobyl disaster to Northridge earthquake to the 9/11 bombings to the Haitian earthquakes to the tornadoes that leveled Joplin, MO, to Hurrican Sandy, what we see over and over is people risking their lives to help others, strangers stopping to help others, communities organizing themselves to help others ... and that's before "the cavalry" in the form of outside assistance shows up to help. Sure, there are some people who use disasters to loot or steal or otherwise benefit themselves but they're the exceptions not the rule.

Preparing for reasonable emergencies makes sense. Having a safe room in your basement or a storm cellar in your backyard if you live in Tornado Alley is sensible. Having hurricane shutters in Florida are sensible. Having extra staples in your pantry, a full tank of gas in the car, diapers for the baby, pet food for the crits, snow shovels, and the snowblower in working condition when a winter storm is predicted is sensible.

Attempting to prepare for the sudden and permanent demise of civilization as we know it is wearing your tin-foil hat way too tight.
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Old 02-19-2015, 09:56 AM
 
Location: rural south west UK
5,378 posts, read 3,569,710 times
Reputation: 6540
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryboy73 View Post
Either you are living one depressing existence (by that, I mean your negative attitude toward others, it makes for a crappy life), or you are simply trolling to see who you can annoy. Neither of those is currently adding anything positive to the discussion here.

Instead of attempting to prove to yourself that you are the only true survivalist, why not start a discussion about some of the skills you have claimed in other threads to possess? Who knows, you might teach someone something, get to converse with folks over here who know similar things, and maybe even learn a thing or two! I assure you that you are not the lone true survivalist, and will further state that most people are survivalists, in that they will do whatever they can(including things that they themselves did not believe they could do) in order to survive. Personally, I live by a code, so I take steps to ensure that I do not have to violate that code to feed me and mine. Others' methods and motivations may vary, but not all are simply talkers, and you would do well to attempt to use this forum for the knowledge it can provide rather than simply another place to convince yourself(incorrectly) that you are the end-all survivalist. Try some honey. you'll catch more flies...
I have a negative attitude to others because I know and have seen what one human can do to another and it isn't pretty, also we live in a time that society has evolved into the "me, me .me" and "whats in it for me" generation, also since coming online(I am a late addition to the internet world...about 6 years, before that I wouldn't have anything to do with computers and was only forced by circumstances to learn how to use one). I was taught by my parents(WW2 generation) to stand on my own two feet and not to have to rely on anyone else I couldn't trust, I still don't trust other people and never will, I live by a code too but it is my own and has nothing to do with "humanity", "community" or so called "society". most people I have met online are either losers or users, sometimes both, and a lot of "mind games" are being played.
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Old 02-19-2015, 10:07 AM
 
Location: rural south west UK
5,378 posts, read 3,569,710 times
Reputation: 6540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d View Post
The SHTF scenario where some kind of sudden, apocalyptic event somehow does away with all vestiges of civilization from electrical power to law enforcement all over the world for an infinite period of time is simply the stuff of stupid science fiction.
I keep hearing this sort of thing all the time, the idea that somehow we are "too big to fail", no, we just have further to fall is all, I bet the Mayans, the Aztecs, the Pharohs, the Roman empire(remember them?) they all thought their civilisations were going to last forever, we are no different. we (western countries) have 3 core systems: Power(notably electricity),Banking and Finance and Telecommunications, the failure of any one of these will cause the collapse of the other 2 within a matter of days or weeks at most, this will then result in the failure of civilisation as we know it.
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Old 02-19-2015, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Southeast, where else?
3,913 posts, read 5,216,152 times
Reputation: 5823
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTSilvertip View Post
Anything less than the Yellowstone Caldura blowing up, and I'm in pretty good shape

I'm not a "prepper" per se, but I live a pretty self suffiecent lifestyle so it wouldn't make a huge difference to the way I normally live, except I probably wouldn't be posting on the internet about it

I already live a long way from population centers, so zombie riots are not an issue. Long way from the ocean, so tidal waves are no concern.
Don't get hurricanes or tornadoes here, and while we do get earthquakes, they usually aren't large.

Wildfires are a big concern here, but as long as you plan and have a defensable space built, that is managable.

If there's a EMP event, I also have a 1967 vehicle so it wouldn't even notice. I can make my own fuel, I have draft horses and oxen as well as old equipment for plowing and harvesting with them.
Plenty of wood for heat, lots of good water coming out of the mountains.

I blacksmith so I can repair or make just about anything I need.
I have all the archery tackle and trapping equipment I could need for hunting and fishing, and lots of empty spaces with large wildlife populations.

Yeah, I think I'm in pretty good shape.

How about you?

And we know where you live. We should be fine
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Old 02-19-2015, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,328 posts, read 61,154,439 times
Reputation: 30256
If a major SHTF scenario occurs, very few people would be unaffected. Most of us would be impacted.

My family produces maybe 80% of the food that we consume. Unfortunately, it does not match-up 100% with the exact items we consume. My Dw likes coffee, we do not produce coffee here, etc. On the other hand, we produce surplus that we market. So we are providing some food to a wide assortment of other families.

My land produces a lot of foods, that are outside of our cultural diet. If we needed to, we could adapt to eating more of the foods that grow here native.

We hope to be fully off-grid soon. But even with that system, it will require maintenance. So system efficiency will drop as years go by, unless repair parts are made available.



During the Dust Bowl and Great Depression, it was not the Dust Bowl that caused both sets of my grandparents to lose their farms. Rather it was the banks failing and calling in their mortgages, that caused farmers to be forced off their farms. Nature was not able to move the farmers. Bankers and lawyers did it.

Go back 5 years before. County Ag agents were telling farmers to get mortgages, so the farms could compete by buying petroleum-fueled tractors, petroleum-based fertilizers, and synthetic herbicides / pesticides. The wisdom of the day [in the form of college educated Ag Agents] in the late 20's, lured farmers into getting carrying debt.

That debt became their downfall.

I like my county Ag Agent, she tries hard to help people to become more self-sufficient. I sit on the executive committee and I approve of all the work that state university Cooperative Extension Offices do every where. They try their hardest to encourage more people to garden and to produce their own foods.

It is important to grow your own food.

It is also important to get out of debt.
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Old 02-19-2015, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Where the mountains touch the sky
6,753 posts, read 8,540,542 times
Reputation: 14957
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb Longstreet View Post
And we know where you live. We should be fine
Here's a map to help you. Come on over.

You're only looking at an area larger than the of the state of New York, with lots of wilderness, open praries and mountain ranges. Should be easy.
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Old 02-19-2015, 10:46 AM
 
Location: FROM Dixie, but IN SoCal
3,484 posts, read 6,495,400 times
Reputation: 3792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d View Post
I'll start worrying when the Buffalo Bills win the Super Bowl, which would be a sure sign that Hell has frozen over. And then it won't matter because I'll die happy.
I used to say things like that about my New Orleans Saints. But then they DID win the Super Bowl and Hell remained frost-free. You could have knocked me over with a feather, but I survived...
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Old 02-19-2015, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Backwoods of Maine
7,487 posts, read 10,459,924 times
Reputation: 21460
Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
It is important to grow your own food.

It is also important to get out of debt.
Amen, and Amen!
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Old 02-19-2015, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
7,840 posts, read 9,170,294 times
Reputation: 13779
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpaul View Post
I keep hearing this sort of thing all the time, the idea that somehow we are "too big to fail", no, we just have further to fall is all, I bet the Mayans, the Aztecs, the Pharohs, the Roman empire(remember them?) they all thought their civilisations were going to last forever, we are no different. we (western countries) have 3 core systems: Power(notably electricity),Banking and Finance and Telecommunications, the failure of any one of these will cause the collapse of the other 2 within a matter of days or weeks at most, this will then result in the failure of civilisation as we know it.
This is nonsense. If you actually read history you would realize how ignorant your statements about ancient civilizations are. They only "make sense" as examples to you because you don't actually know very much about them except that they're not around any more.

The same is true about your goobledygook about "3 core systems". I bet you got that off some paranoid survivalist website. Again if you had a real understanding of the electrical grid, telecommunications, and/or banking and finance you would realize that this is implausible. Parts of the world might be affected by some disaster but unless it's an event that's going to wipe out the majority of life on this planet, civilization will keep going.

BTW, what exactly do you think world leaders would be doing while the "3 core systems" were supposedly "imploding"? Playing Yahtzee? Fiddling? My guess is that being British, you don't realize that the US credit markets came within a whisker of collapsing the economy in the summer of 2008. For once, GWB moved quickly and got Congress to cooperate in preventing that. It was a near thing and the US -- and the world -- took some economic lumps, but guess what? Civilization is still here. Sensible civilized people are not nearly as stupid or as helpless as paranoid preppers think they are
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Old 02-19-2015, 12:27 PM
 
1,400 posts, read 1,840,447 times
Reputation: 1469
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpaul View Post
I have a negative attitude to others because I know and have seen what one human can do to another and it isn't pretty, also we live in a time that society has evolved into the "me, me .me" and "whats in it for me" generation, also since coming online(I am a late addition to the internet world...about 6 years, before that I wouldn't have anything to do with computers and was only forced by circumstances to learn how to use one). I was taught by my parents(WW2 generation) to stand on my own two feet and not to have to rely on anyone else I couldn't trust, I still don't trust other people and never will, I live by a code too but it is my own and has nothing to do with "humanity", "community" or so called "society". most people I have met online are either losers or users, sometimes both, and a lot of "mind games" are being played.
Yeah, me, me, me TODAY. As if in the 1850s in America there weren't many, many people who murdered and pillaged to get a large piece of land or a bunch of cattle or to secure a contract for something. As if numerous Indian tribes weren't destroyed and their ancestral lands taken for who? Me, Me, Me of course - gold prospectors, cattle barons, sod busters, industrialists, opportunists, snake oil salesmen.... Please - all that thing of the past stuff is so romantic but so incorrect...
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