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When people realize its going south looting will begin immediately,gangs of thugs will be roaming the streets looking to take your stuff when they've looted all the stores, Ironically the safest place to be will be in some armed collective ,whether you call it a gang or a militia wont make much difference as law of the jungle will apply, those trying to survive alone wont last long..
Out of curiosity what do you think will bring about this downfall of civilization?
Sorry, this is not going to happen, lootings won't be major.
I had lived through such event overseas during economic collapse what people do is just sit tight, eat whatever grain/dry foods they got/still can get, and just take it all quetly, hoping for things to change. In areas where things can be grown, they'll grow potatos. May be organize some protests...that's about it. As soon as there're cops to gas everyone down, this is how it's going to stay.
What you describe if more of what happens during civil war, when there's no more police force. Even then, whatever armed group controls the town will be executing looters and distributing food to population to maintain basic order.
Location: When you take flak it means you are on target
7,646 posts, read 9,944,809 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d
There have always been "plagues". The Black Death (bubonic plague) killed off 25-35% of the population of Europe in the 14th century. Something like 1/4 of the US population was affected by tuberculosis in the late 19th century. At least we know how to deal with infectious diseases these days even if it takes a while to figure out how to prevent them!
Poop on North Korea. An impoverished Third World country is not going to end world civilization because they don't have the firepower. I grew up in the 1950s when the US and the USSR did have the firepower to do and were enemies.
"Hyperintelligent" artificial intelligence??? What the hell is that? "Hyper" is apparently the favorite word in the vocabulary of every fear monger and doomsday prophet these days whether they're huckstering their pseudo economics or their Luddism.
BTW, American "civilization" does NOT equal "world civilization".
Well plague would be nice, because those of us prepared could probably isolate and avoid it.
N Korea - don't be so sure - then have 60 nukes right now and " might" have the ability to reach Seattle and will have longer missles soon. Not to mention the Pakis and Indians going at it - or Israel and Iran.
And AI is close - in 200 years humans might be an unneeded infestation to be "treminated." Besides robots don't need air and fallout doesn't affect them.
I'd say your goose is cooked any way you look at it.
Me and mine, were gettin off this rock, as soon as we figure out how to make a warp drive work. So long suckers!
Yes, good points. The roadblocks are formidable. What do you suggest?
Nothing really - it is pretty hopeless here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof
Well, that's the case in the USA, but around the world it seems that most people don't have access to a fast and hard life, they live in traditional marriages, and the women are encouraged to have more children ...... or rather nothing is done to stop that - both for old age security and because some fearsome ancient deity demands that they be fruitful and multiply. Usually it is Yahweh (Jehovah) or Allah that commands this. But even in non-theistic Buddhism, adherents are multipying with the same enthusiasm as the theists.
It's interesting to note that in areas with high birthrates where women have been offered bc pills, they've been eager to take them, even if they live in great poverty ...... though they're even more likely to take them surreptitiously so that the men or the religious tw**s don't find out about it.
The states with most children/family are places like Texas - coincides with the highest number of religious people/most conservative.
Most ex-communist countries saw population declines as a result of government policies (and stamping out religion).
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,297 posts, read 14,157,672 times
Reputation: 8105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d
.......Poop on North Korea. An impoverished Third World country is not going to end world civilization because they don't have the firepower. I grew up in the 1950s when the US and the USSR did have the firepower to do and were enemies.
"Hyperintelligent" artificial intelligence??? What the hell is that? "Hyper" is apparently the favorite word in the vocabulary of every fear monger and doomsday prophet these days whether they're huckstering their pseudo economics or their Luddism.
......
The problem with NKorea is the same as the problem with Iran. It's led by an irrational person. That contrasts sharply with the leadership of the USSR and the USA, who were intelligent, rational people that would avoid Mutual Assured Destruction at any cost (which actually came close to happening once, when some radar equipment malfunctioned and showed a massive Soviet missile launch).
NKorea and Iran won't have anything near that kind of firepower even when they have ICBMs ..... but even a small nuke on Tel Aviv, NYC, DC, or London would create havoc in so many worldwide systems and real panic, the kind that could cripple civilization for a while. They could simply nuke two major cities and threaten more as we did with Japan. Could we take the chance that they couldn't deliver more? We might have to do almost anything they demand of us.
As for hyperintelligence, I thought the term was rather obvious in meaning. We're making great strides in artificial intelligence, the same computer won at the game show Jeopardy, and also beat the greatest human champion in the world at chess, Kasparov.
We don't have a general artificial intelligence yet that is sentient, I'm guessing that will have to wait for quantum computing and artificial emotions. But it looks to be only a few decades in the future before computer intelligence surpasses that of the smartest humans.
Sorry, this is not going to happen, lootings won't be major.
I had lived through such event overseas during economic collapse what people do is just sit tight, eat whatever grain/dry foods they got/still can get, and just take it all quetly, hoping for things to change. In areas where things can be grown, they'll grow potatos. May be organize some protests...that's about it. As soon as there're cops to gas everyone down, this is how it's going to stay.
What you describe if more of what happens during civil war, when there's no more police force. Even then, whatever armed group controls the town will be executing looters and distributing food to population to maintain basic order.
I agree. What it will most likely look like is Germany circa 1914-1930. Lootings would be almost entirely confined to the inner cities and poverty centers where lawlessness is a way of life anyway. This stuff will not happen much, or at all, in the more rural areas where people are more close knit and traditional and have a better ability to live self-sufficiently. Martial law in the cities will almost certainly be implemented quickly and the military will be moved in - what will be interesting to see is the level of force that will be used and again... who's side the drug gangs and lawless elements are on. But there will be most likely power outages and communication disruptions across the entire nation - either real or fabricated. You may see travel restricted between states, with roadblocks and checkpoints to monitor rebel groups or lawless elements like blackmarketers and profiteers.
But looting and civil crimes is the LEAST of our concerns, or should be. Consider that famine and disease may be used as national control policy. My biggest fear is an invasion of America by international "peacekeeping forces" who wind up being an army of occupation allied to a radical Left Wing American government. They will use the situation to begin eliminating or rounding up "reactionary elements" who pose a threat to the new regime.
Washington DC will quarantine itself and all military bases and critical installations will become armed camps protected from incursion by lethal force. Interstates will be militarized.
Crisis momentum has been building to a tangile economic and cultural crisis now coming to bloom. Extremist groups capitalize on mass desperation to serve their agenda. Some of these groups are affiliated with power centers that are deliberately encouraging the conditions for crisis... i.e. the globalists and anti-Western Left, etc. Others will be forces reacting to the efforts of the Former group. I would like to clarify that neither political party has a monopoly on Lefties and liberal useful idiots who want to transform America. There are many "conservatives" who are actually not conservative at all - such as the neo-cons, who support a globalist anti-national agenda. And obviously the traditional Left Wing makes no bones about their hatred for "white male capitalist America". And then there are the Technocrats who advocate a cashless one world economy, and are at least for now, a hybrid of libertarian and Marxist ideals. And then there are the Islamofascists and other foreign threats.
Last edited by Led Zeppelin; 05-10-2015 at 07:04 AM..
Roguemom - I agree. It annoys me the huge taxes I pay, that keep me from enjoyng a better life - and "I" am the ONLY one in line paying for my food (and theirs).
I shop late at night partly because I often work past 10pm, but frankly because it is difficult to not express my opinion when people are buying steak on EBT and I'm eating chicken or chuck.
Oh, I have had this experience MANY times. One time I went to pick up American cheese slices for grilled cheese sandwiches and a can or tomato soup in order to prepare dinner in order to "stretch the budget" to pay day, and in front of me is a lady with steaks, chips, ice cream, you name it, gabbing on her SMART cell phone ( I can't afford one) while being rung up. Then, out comes the EBT card for her purchase.
This is what is totally unsustainable, this giving of food, health care, rental subsidies, phone, cars, etc. to people who are non-contributing, or unproductive, while taking more and more from those who are. I don't know how many working people have told me their taxes were higher than ever this year. Well, it's no wonder. This will not be able to continue, there will be a breaking point.
Oh, I have had this experience MANY times. One time I went to pick up American cheese slices for grilled cheese sandwiches and a can or tomato soup in order to prepare dinner in order to "stretch the budget" to pay day, and in front of me is a lady with steaks, chips, ice cream, you name it, gabbing on her SMART cell phone ( I can't afford one) while being rung up. Then, out comes the EBT card for her purchase.
This is what is totally unsustainable, this giving of food, health care, rental subsidies, phone, cars, etc. to people who are non-contributing, or unproductive, while taking more and more from those who are. I don't know how many working people have told me their taxes were higher than ever this year. Well, it's no wonder. This will not be able to continue, there will be a breaking point.
Why do you think these abuses happen in United States but not a place like, say, Norway or Germany? After all, they have much more in terms of "free stuff" like healthcare and education and a much stronger social net.
Is it the demographic make up of this country? It is obvious that (you think) a lot of people are abusing the system and that they would/will abused the system if they could. Why is that? Is is the education level overall? The mix of extreme poverty with wealth? What is it?
My guess is lack of education. It will take a massive and expensive effort to bring everyone up to par. Impossible, in my opinion.
You are right, and I have a lot of ideas and perspectives on this. Rather than blather on, I'm going to try to find a way to "condense" my thoughts, and I'll post back. By the way, I raised my kids as a single working mother, and, for a short time, I actually WAS getting food stamps myself, and my kids were on Medicaid, so I also have a "personal experience" inside view on this.
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,297 posts, read 14,157,672 times
Reputation: 8105
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogueMom
Oh, I have had this experience MANY times. One time I went to pick up American cheese slices for grilled cheese sandwiches and a can or tomato soup in order to prepare dinner in order to "stretch the budget" to pay day, and in front of me is a lady with steaks, chips, ice cream, you name it, gabbing on her SMART cell phone ( I can't afford one) while being rung up. Then, out comes the EBT card for her purchase.
.....
Yeah, I keep hearing the same story from rightwingers, pretty much the same in all details except that they used to say they saw her using paper food stamps. When they were called out on that, they started saying that it was an EBT card they saw.
You forgot to mention that you saw her get into a late-model luxury car and drive off with her steak and lobster.
I agree. What it will most likely look like is Germany circa 1914-1930. Lootings would be almost entirely confined to the inner cities and poverty centers where lawlessness is a way of life anyway. This stuff will not happen much, or at all, in the more rural areas where people are more close knit and traditional and have a better ability to live self-sufficiently. Martial law in the cities will almost certainly be implemented quickly and the military will be moved in - what will be interesting to see is the level of force that will be used and again... who's side the drug gangs and lawless elements are on. But there will be most likely power outages and communication disruptions across the entire nation - either real or fabricated. You may see travel restricted between states, with roadblocks and checkpoints to monitor rebel groups or lawless elements like blackmarketers and profiteers.
But looting and civil crimes is the LEAST of our concerns, or should be. Consider that famine and disease may be used as national control policy. My biggest fear is an invasion of America by international "peacekeeping forces" who wind up being an army of occupation allied to a radical Left Wing American government. They will use the situation to begin eliminating or rounding up "reactionary elements" who pose a threat to the new regime.
Washington DC will quarantine itself and all military bases and critical installations will become armed camps protected from incursion by lethal force. Interstates will be militarized.
Crisis momentum has been building to a tangile economic and cultural crisis now coming to bloom. Extremist groups capitalize on mass desperation to serve their agenda. Some of these groups are affiliated with power centers that are deliberately encouraging the conditions for crisis... i.e. the globalists and anti-Western Left, etc. Others will be forces reacting to the efforts of the Former group. I would like to clarify that neither political party has a monopoly on Lefties and liberal useful idiots who want to transform America. There are many "conservatives" who are actually not conservative at all - such as the neo-cons, who support a globalist anti-national agenda. And obviously the traditional Left Wing makes no bones about their hatred for "white male capitalist America". And then there are the Technocrats who advocate a cashless one world economy, and are at least for now, a hybrid of libertarian and Marxist ideals. And then there are the Islamofascists and other foreign threats.
The bolded is the only part of what you wrote that contains the slightest semblance of truth. The rest of what you wrote is nonsense that has been foisted upon you by just those groups and the desperation exists only in your own mind and you now have become part of their plan. Congratulations.
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