Anybody watching Alive? (Vancouver, mountain, survivor)

[cowbell76]

I'm just pointing out that it's not as idiotic as some of the so-called survival shows. People who haven't seen it are making assumptions and comparisons that aren't valid. None of the guys were incompetent idiots although sometimes they were (or at least portrayed as) surprisingly dense. There was that one guy with extensive military training who was working in Africa before filming the show. The young guy (mouse-eater) did do a long-term wilderness survival course at a bushcraft school in northern Maine, so he had some training, but I think just not enough life experience. Lucas, the guy who built the canoe, was recruited after the producers saw him in action teaching outdoor skills to kids. The guy who went home first was a cop. I think maybe it just came down to not having enough experience enduring the outdoors. They may have had plenty of skills but rarely put them into action prior to the show, and in most cases probably always with back-up gear.

As an aside, one thing I found interesting was that two of them had pregnant wives at home. That other guy's mother was at death's door. I think they selected people with situations like that to increase mental conflict.

I watch Fat Guys in the Woods a lot and I have to say I was surprised that for the most part no one put into action many of the skills they demonstrate on that show. That show does teach some really useful skills.

I still think it was a survival show - they walked into the woods without food or water (except! the website says some of them, including Sam, opted for "emergency rations" as one of their 10 items) and some stayed for quite awhile. They just didn't do a very good job of setting themselves up to survive long-term.

I wonder if they'll have a Season 2. I can't help but think that it will get both better and worse, as is always the case with later seasons of reality shows. Contestants might make better decisions after watching this season. But, typically, the people on reality shows become more and more self-conscious and ridiculous and producers find a formula and make sure to cast people in various "roles."

It is interesting, by the way, that the final two guys left were the oldest (I think) and the youngest.

[MTSilvertip]

Originally Posted by Nor'Eastah

Sounds like you had an entertaining season!

I spent most of it somewhere between laughing hysterically, and cussing/shouting at the tube in utter disbelief at the dumb things they did.
I guess I'm either an optimisti for thinking that they couldn't be THAT dumb, and would improve, and hard headed enough to make sure I was seeing what I was really seeing.

I did get a lot of material for writing though, so it wasn't a total waste of time.

Originally Posted by cowbell76

I'm just pointing out that it's not as idiotic as some of the so-called survival shows. People who haven't seen it are making assumptions and comparisons that aren't valid. None of the guys were incompetent idiots although sometimes they were (or at least portrayed as) surprisingly dense. There was that one guy with extensive military training who was working in Africa before filming the show. The young guy (mouse-eater) did do a long-term wilderness survival course at a bushcraft school in northern Maine, so he had some training, but I think just not enough life experience. Lucas, the guy who built the canoe, was recruited after the producers saw him in action teaching outdoor skills to kids. The guy who went home first was a cop. I think maybe it just came down to not having enough experience enduring the outdoors. They may have had plenty of skills but rarely put them into action prior to the show, and in most cases probably always with back-up gear.

As an aside, one thing I found interesting was that two of them had pregnant wives at home. That other guy's mother was at death's door. I think they selected people with situations like that to increase mental conflict.

I watch Fat Guys in the Woods a lot and I have to say I was surprised that for the most part no one put into action many of the skills they demonstrate on that show. That show does teach some really useful skills.

I still think it was a survival show - they walked into the woods without food or water (except! the website says some of them, including Sam, opted for "emergency rations" as one of their 10 items) and some stayed for quite awhile. They just didn't do a very good job of setting themselves up to survive long-term.

I wonder if they'll have a Season 2. I can't help but think that it will get both better and worse, as is always the case with later seasons of reality shows. Contestants might make better decisions after watching this season. But, typically, the people on reality shows become more and more self-conscious and ridiculous and producers find a formula and make sure to cast people in various "roles."

It is interesting, by the way, that the final two guys left were the oldest (I think) and the youngest.

Fat Guys isn't about experts, just regular joes that a teacher takes into the woods to show some basic skills. Those guys make no bones about the fact they have no idea what they're doing. I don't watch it a lot, but have seen it a couple times. While the information is good, usually the teacher picks the most outlandish way to do something to keep the audience watching.
Still, it does provide some good information, so I don't have a real problem with it as it's kind of like watching a school class on TV.

The biggest problem I had was that these guys were portrayed as experts, which they weren't.
You don't become an expert after attending a class or 2. Most of those guys were barely above the Fat Guys level.

I don't question that they are intelligent, and probably very successful in their normal lives, it just never showed that they had any higher level thinking and problem solving skills on the show.
Yeah, Ponytail made a canoe. Did a lot of work wasting calories he couldn't replace. He made a yurt, again, nice project, not the best option. He also spent a couple days chopping down trees and hauling logs for a cabin, then decided the clay he found wasn't what he wanted, so he abandoned the project. Wasted effort.

For another example, if you're going to Vancouver Island, there will be bears around. If you don't have any experience with wildlife, or if it frightens you, you're in the wrong place. That first guy saw a bear and ran like a frightened little schoolgirl. The fat guy heard wolves, same thing, the guy with a shaved head had a bear come to his camp, he called in rescue that night. Part of survival is learning to deal with wildlife. No experts here.

One guy ran because the wind blew. That happens, get over it.

The guys with the pregnant wives made the choice to come in spite of that, so I don't have a lot of sympathy for them.

Dreadlocks didn't disclose his mother had brain cancer until just before he left. I don't blame him for leaving, and I do have sympathy for that situation, but she was diagnosed prior to his departure. Why he came in the first place astounds me.

The one guy that was supposed to be a military trained expert should know that you have to be very careful of water. He never checked upstream, didn't realize that taking water out of a stream that close to the ocean could mean it would have high salt levels.
He didn't boil the water, he just ran it through some moss. Good way to get all kinds of diseases and issues, and an expert would know that.

Same with the guy who lost his fire stick. An expert would know a dozen ways to make fire, or keep a fire going. Without his production equipment, that guy just ran home to mommy.

I have a problem with how the show was marketed. Those guys weren't experts, they were hobbists. Wilderness survival is something they did on the weekends or took classes for. I doubt with the exception of maybe Georgia, that any of them had spent any time at all in the woods without full camping gear, water and grocieries, (freeze dried of course).

If the producers had been honest about that, I wouldn't have expected anything from those guys, and it would have been a better show, but when they are supposed to know what they're doing and don't, when all they can do is tell you how miserable they are and how lonely they are instead of acting like survivors and working to make their situation better, when all they could do is cry on a beach, it isn't a survivial show, it's a melodrama set in British Columbia.

[Nor'Eastah]

Well, I found the final episode on Youtube. The 40-year-old guy Alan, won it. I saw the final days of the 22-year-old, Sam ("Mouse-eater") also. These were my impressions:

* There was some mighty fine acting going on there. I don't doubt that many of them lost a lot of weight, and were not comfortable. But the cameras kept moving. I can see having a guy set up a camera, but unless it was controlled remotely (possible), the shots and camera angles were just too good, too cinematic, and more than you could expect a starving man to set up.

* These guys (the 2 that I saw) were uttering profundities that simply don't come out of the mouths of hungry, cold, frightened, disoriented men. The mind just doesn't work that well, under those conditions.

What am I saying? I think that a lot of it was faked. As someone else mentioned, to get the reviews and the audience. I would not rule out there having been a camera crew on the island, not disclosed. It's easy for an audience to forget camera angles, once they get drawn into a story. But as someone who has not watched TV in over a decade, I noticed that right off the bat. One last thing - the advertising. Oh, my word...no wonder we gave up TV!

[cowbell76]

Yeah, it's Alone. The OP corrected himself in one of the posts.

The clothing items are prescribed and fairly extensive, and not part of the 10 items. They're pretty well-equipped in that regard. I think (have to double-check) that the amount of cordage, wire, etc. that they are allowed to bring is limited, though still a fair amount. But I think that limits what they can make out of it, and things like fish nets are on the list, so they bring those as a separate item. A fish net would use up a lot of cordage. One guy does make a large fish trap from small tree limbs.

I just watched the final episode (had seen all the others but not watched the final one as of yesterday, though I knew who the winner was.) First I have to say that it had a different feel from the other episodes, so if you want to get a good feeling for the participants, you should really watch all the episodes.

In any case, there was a revelation which I found disappointing, and which answers some questions/suspicions, while also raising some questions:

- When they are preparing to go pick up the winner (Day 56, the day after the next-to-last guy tapped out, presumably giving them time to pick up the winner's wife in Georgia) they say that they tell the guy to expect the choppers as part of the routine medic visit.

Yet, at no time in any other episode did they ever mention or allude to medic visits. They make sense and every other survival show uses them, but the premise of this show is that they are completely alone. They make a big deal about how much the isolation and inability to talk to other humans is affecting them.

- During this "medic visit," the cameras are rolling well before they tell the guy he's the winner. This suggests that cameras are always part of the visits. That makes me think that during that time the crew is probably filming all the difficult shots and cinematic "current weather conditions" shots, and maybe a lot of the better-filmed interview footage. This also possibly answers a question I had about how they power the cameras for so long out in the wild.

- I had also wondered how the participants would have no clue when the other guys were tapping out. Despite being miles apart, they would probably at some point hear/see choppers, or have the rescue boats pass their beaches. Now that I know there are routine medic visits, I think that they do see these things but just assume they have to do with those visits. But certainly, then, the whole feel of the place is busier and less wilderness-y than they suggest. (Also of course there are plenty of views of areas cut by recent logging operations, which makes me wonder how much of that sort of thing the participants can see/hear at times.)

As for the profundities another poster mentioned, well, I don't think these guys are actors. The winner is a corrections officer (though given his flare for the dramatic, revealed over the varous episodes, I find it hard to believe he's not a classically-trained actor. Seriously.) But, I don't think they're quite suffering as much as we are led to believe, and they have regular human contact. I also think that some of the footage (and especially voice-overs) is used out of sequence.

- They have satellite phones to use when "tapping out." But when one of the guys calls it seems like the crew at first doesn't think he's tapping out. It makes me wonder, despite one statement that the phones are not to be used "for chit-chat" how often they're in phone contact with the producers.

When one guy wants to leave in the middle of the night, they can't get the choppers out, so the crew has to take trucks on logging roads and then hike into the woods for hours. In the extras show it shows that one crew member dislocates his shoulder during the hike. But I have to wonder whether they're really that far away from the participants at all times. It seems like a potentially dangerous enough endeavor that they would keep some crew nearby at all times.

Overall, I still like the show. The participants are clearly really eating the slugs, mice, limpets, seaweed, etc., and the long-term guys lose a lot of weight. It's not all fake but it's not all real either.

Edit to add - in the final show they showed footage from earlier days that was never seen before. Clearly they would have tons of footage they don't use. Sam, the young guy who was the next to the last guy, did have a spear made with a shard of glass. It made me wonder just how much they're not showing us, which might have portrayed the guys in a different light.

I'd definitely like to see a show with true experts - let's say, Creek Stewart, Les Stroud, maybe Bear Grylls, doing a similar thing (minus the human contact) and see how well they do.

[Truly Missouri]

I just watched the last episode.

It really was a neat concept for a show, but it did miss a lot of opportunities to be better.

cowbell76 does make some really good points and suggestions, but from a survivalists (just a novice fan here) perspective, I can relate with MTsilvertip's outlook. This show was missing a whole lot. Better casting for a second season could help.

I couldn't believe the guy who cries all of the time. He expended all of that energy to rebuild (what became the best shelter on the show at least) and transplant his shelter into a yurt, but only for him to tap out immediately thereafter.

I also questioned how they maintained power for their cameras. I figured they had to be periodically visited.

What would make a second season of Alone better:

1) Do not cast auditioning survivalists who cry during their casting interviews!

2) Give a $25K cash prize to the survivalist who is the most informative. Or, leave it to the fans of the show to vote for who was the most informative. This would create the incentive for participants to film themselves demonstrating more survival techniques and knowledge. Instead, of just laying down in their shelters for days at a time doing absolutely nothing. - The winner, Alan, near the end, said he wouldn't record himself for three days.

3) Give a $25k cash prize to the survivalist who builds the most sustainable survival environment. This would include the shelter itself, with its location in response to resources. Also accessories, such as canoes, a secondary location for food preparation, crafted weapons and utensils etc, a spring garden like Alan had planned, and even the winterizing of their shelters. As cowbell mentioned the constructing of an actual cabin. That could be interesting to watch. Instead of just watching them lay around in their shelters every episode just complaining about how they're thinking of quitting. They clearly had not the mindsets for long term survival. They were just content to out lay the other opponents in hopes of them tapping out first. But this incentive would hopefully avoid that, by compelling the participants to display and show off their skills to not just lay around all day, but to construct a long term survival plan and environment.

4) Perhaps, max the number of days to 90 days. Or higher. Let all of the survivalist know that 90 days is the max number of days that they'll be out Alone. All survivalists who make it to 90 days will win; sharing the $500k amongst themselves. This way they're not competing to out lay one another, but compete to sustain themselves for a 90 day long term situation. Then afterwards, their survival environments shall be judged.

5) Allow for tandems. Preferably, husbands and wives, boyfriends and girlfriends, sister and brother and/or dad and daughters. Having such would add to what producers are looking for, drama. There would be contentions, whining, and reluctant tapping outs etc. Plus the self-filming of the show would be better.

6) If there's no max to the number of days. Then to reveal to the finalist that he's the winner, they should amass his family and quietly have them sneak up on him at his site. With camera crews following and recording the emotional reunion and, the realization of victory. Ensued by a great feast and on-site celebration.

[MTSilvertip]

Originally Posted by Nor'Eastah

Well, I found the final episode on Youtube. The 40-year-old guy Alan, won it. I saw the final days of the 22-year-old, Sam ("Mouse-eater") also. These were my impressions:

* There was some mighty fine acting going on there. I don't doubt that many of them lost a lot of weight, and were not comfortable. But the cameras kept moving. I can see having a guy set up a camera, but unless it was controlled remotely (possible), the shots and camera angles were just too good, too cinematic, and more than you could expect a starving man to set up.

* These guys (the 2 that I saw) were uttering profundities that simply don't come out of the mouths of hungry, cold, frightened, disoriented men. The mind just doesn't work that well, under those conditions.

What am I saying? I think that a lot of it was faked. As someone else mentioned, to get the reviews and the audience. I would not rule out there having been a camera crew on the island, not disclosed. It's easy for an audience to forget camera angles, once they get drawn into a story. But as someone who has not watched TV in over a decade, I noticed that right off the bat. One last thing - the advertising. Oh, my word...no wonder we gave up TV!

Yeah, I just spent several weeks explaining what was wrong with the program, and why I didn't think it was real in the hopes that someone would see that in a real survival situation, what those guys were doing wouldn't be good information to follow for someone actually trying to live in the wilds.

I wasn't too concerned about the camera angles, don't care because it had nothing to do with the activities.
I figured they probably had medical care either close by or checking on them. The producers wouldn't want someone to die on the program due to starvation or medical concerns, that probably would be good for ratings, not so good for getting sponsors.

As I said all along, these guys weren't experts, and I am honestly amazed that 2 of them lasted 50 days.

There are so many "reality" shows out there these days, I don't think anybody even pays attention to the fact there are probably camramen out there with them anymore.

My main issue was that they missed a golden opportunity to teach people skills that could help save their lives.

I liked Les Stroud's show. He had actually in his youth, with his wife, went far out into the wilds of Canada and lived as a survivor for several years.
I had different ways of doing things than he did on his shows, but the information was accurate and could save lives.

Dave Cantrell I liked, that hippy partner of his just made things more difficult.
The new team they brought in, one guy does do primitive living and it shows, but he's usually over rulled by that spec ops guy. Driving hard and taking chances in a survival situation can get you killed. The first rule of survival is conservation. Keeping yourself safe and uninjured is priority one.

Bear Gryllis is a showoff and the stuff he did would get someone that didn't have a camera crew and medical evac on site killed quickly.

Most survivor shows don't teach, they just go for the shock factor of eating bugs or whatever, and miss the opportunity to actually be a tool to help the folks that watch them.
True, most viewers won't come any closer to the wilderness than the city park in their town, but once in a while, people do get in trouble and if they remember something from a TV show, if it's accurate, it might be the difference between them going on to get their own show, or just being another moldy skeleton in the woods somewhere.

I guess I've just spent too many years living on the backside of beyond, and teaching it to others so these shows frustrate me.

[bigpaul]

your absolutely right about Bear Grylls, he's an accident waiting to happen and the last person i'd want near me in a survival situation, I suppose he might be worth having around just to have a giggle at!!!

[Truly Missouri]

If I were in a survival situation with Bear Grylls, I'd drink all the water, and he could drink my pi$$.

[bigpaul]

you'd be better off throwing him in the water, he seems to like getting wet, with a bit of luck he'd disappear over the next waterfall never to be seen again.

[carolkretire]

I think you mean the TV Series "Alone" is that right?