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Old 07-16-2015, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Backwoods of Maine
7,488 posts, read 10,482,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTSilvertip View Post
I'm not a doomer, but this crap is unsettling as I spent time over in that area in other wars.
Greece is more of a threat to all of us than Iran is...seriously.

Greece's 'debt-bomb' and the fallout from it, is far more likely to detonate everybody else's debt-bomb, than anything Iran is likely to do. And that fallout can lead to far worse living conditions for us all, than anything Iran is likely to do. The EU is a flashpoint just waiting to erupt. Perhaps not tomorrow, but fairly soon. Please don't fall for the media's game of 'Pay no attention to that man (Tsipras) begind the curtain'. They want you to fear their bogey-man (Iran); pick your own demons, don't settle for theirs.

The financial situation is far more explosive than the nuke situation, at this point in time.
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Old 07-17-2015, 01:26 AM
 
Location: rural south west UK
5,404 posts, read 3,595,350 times
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the EU is a crash waiting to happen, Greece is but the latest symptom of trying to make 28 countries the same, one size does NOT fit all and its just a matter of time before the whole sorry experiment collapses.
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Old 07-17-2015, 06:12 AM
 
2,878 posts, read 4,629,836 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpaul View Post
the EU is a crash waiting to happen, Greece is but the latest symptom of trying to make 28 countries the same, one size does NOT fit all and its just a matter of time before the whole sorry experiment collapses.
It has worked for the United States of America for 200+ years, why would it not work for the EU? I think (with the exception of Greece and maybe one or two more countries), there is quite a lot of similarity between Netherlands and Germany or England and Slovenia. If you think about the USA - a place like Mississippi has not much in common with a place like Wyoming or New York - yet the states have done well as a whole.

I know you excite yourself with thoughts if impending doom and gloom - but be realistic
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Old 07-17-2015, 06:58 AM
 
Location: rural south west UK
5,404 posts, read 3,595,350 times
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the fact is this was never anything more than an experiment and it has failed, there are several countries who want to leave the EU they are just waiting to see who will leave first, if Greece exits the Euro which it probably will this will be the catalyst for the rest. even in the states if you don't balance the books for nearly 20 years-like the EU has done- you'd end up in jail for fraud and rightly so.
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Old 07-17-2015, 07:29 AM
 
2,878 posts, read 4,629,836 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpaul View Post
the fact is this was never anything more than an experiment and it has failed, there are several countries who want to leave the EU they are just waiting to see who will leave first, if Greece exits the Euro which it probably will this will be the catalyst for the rest. even in the states if you don't balance the books for nearly 20 years-like the EU has done- you'd end up in jail for fraud and rightly so.
There will always be far-right politicians in each country that do not want to see their country as a member of any union. However, normal people realize that Europe as a union stands a much better chance than all these "little kingdoms" separated. As a labor market, as a no-duty zone, as a synchronized laws zone - it just makes sense. Will there be hiccups on the way? Sure. Will there be countries like the UK with their pompous obstructionist "we are special, still living in colonial times" attitude? Sure. However, there is also a lot of good in the EU - mainly the availability of money and finances to bring the lower level member states up to standard. Same as here in the States really - there is a difference between an economic powerhouse state like the ones in the North East and southern and poor states like Alabama or Louisiana. However, the hope is that with redistributing of income via taxation, the poorer and less developed states will come up to par at some point and all will uphold the same legal, economic and living standards
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Old 07-17-2015, 07:58 AM
 
Location: Where the mountains touch the sky
6,756 posts, read 8,573,379 times
Reputation: 14969
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor'Eastah View Post
Greece is more of a threat to all of us than Iran is...seriously.

Greece's 'debt-bomb' and the fallout from it, is far more likely to detonate everybody else's debt-bomb, than anything Iran is likely to do. And that fallout can lead to far worse living conditions for us all, than anything Iran is likely to do. The EU is a flashpoint just waiting to erupt. Perhaps not tomorrow, but fairly soon. Please don't fall for the media's game of 'Pay no attention to that man (Tsipras) begind the curtain'. They want you to fear their bogey-man (Iran); pick your own demons, don't settle for theirs.

The financial situation is far more explosive than the nuke situation, at this point in time.
No doubt. But Greece is just another socialist experiment that ran out of other people's money to spend. They demanded that a few people paid for "free" housing and "free" medical care and "free" college, couple that with lavish pensions for government workers, of course it was going to fail.

Yes, it could be the catalyst that sets off a breakup of the EU, but I think that the masters that control Europe won't let that happen as they don't want to lose control again, so they'll keep giving Greece money, just enough to keep them in the fold.
I see they authorized another few billion to them yesterday to keep them on the dole. Kind of like a drug addicted relative, you throw them a few bucks just to keep them from embarrassing you.

The mullahs in Iraq are completely, institutionally insane. They want to trigger Armageddon. Israel won't just sit back and wait for Iraq to nuke them. It's an explosive mix and since the US has just kow-towed to the mullahs, Israel feels it has it's back to the wall. Netenyaho (sp?) won't sit quietly by and let his people die.

Lets put it this way, The world is a volitile and dangerous place, and we don't have a leader willing to stand up to the terrorists and those that wish us harm.
The worlds economic system is shakey, the inmates are running the asylum.
Russia is flexing it's muscle again, the communist ideologs have made headway here in the US, China and India are becoming more powerful, rouge dictators in North Korea and Iraq have nukes.

The situation is not so different in many ways from the period between world wars.

Is it any wonder people aren't secure in the future and prep to try and offset what they see as coming?
To try to protect themselves and their families because they know that those in power don't give a crap about their welfare?
To have some small measure of control over their own lives as the world again swirls down the toilet bowl?

Yeah, is it any wonder people prep.
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Old 07-17-2015, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Backwoods of Maine
7,488 posts, read 10,482,288 times
Reputation: 21470
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTSilvertip View Post
Is it any wonder people aren't secure in the future and prep to try and offset what they see as coming?
To try to protect themselves and their families because they know that those in power don't give a crap about their welfare?
To have some small measure of control over their own lives as the world again swirls down the toilet bowl?

Yeah, is it any wonder people prep.
This I agree with 100%. It doesn't matter what the cause is...nobody can be sure what the cause will be. Get your own house in order, and never depend on the gov't. Consider all possibilities, all scenarios, all types of disasters. Once that is done, however, it is a mistake, IMO, to live in a state of fear. There are people who make money from keeping you in a state of fear. Once you are prepared, don't live in fear. Just live!
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Old 07-17-2015, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Where the mountains touch the sky
6,756 posts, read 8,573,379 times
Reputation: 14969
Agreed!
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Old 07-17-2015, 09:43 AM
 
Location: rural south west UK
5,404 posts, read 3,595,350 times
Reputation: 6633
Quote:
Originally Posted by ognend View Post
There will always be far-right politicians in each country that do not want to see their country as a member of any union. However, normal people realize that Europe as a union stands a much better chance than all these "little kingdoms" separated. As a labor market, as a no-duty zone, as a synchronized laws zone - it just makes sense. Will there be hiccups on the way? Sure. Will there be countries like the UK with their pompous obstructionist "we are special, still living in colonial times" attitude? Sure. However, there is also a lot of good in the EU - mainly the availability of money and finances to bring the lower level member states up to standard. Same as here in the States really - there is a difference between an economic powerhouse state like the ones in the North East and southern and poor states like Alabama or Louisiana. However, the hope is that with redistributing of income via taxation, the poorer and less developed states will come up to par at some point and all will uphold the same legal, economic and living standards
the original idea of "the Common Market" a simple trading agreement was a good one, by the way that is the only agreement WE(the British people) signed up to, the European Union came later and we never had a say in the matter, this is a purely political system which was signed up by our politicians without our say so, so you can see why most British people don't want the EU, unelected foreign politicians that know nothing about the UK making 80% of our laws again without our say so. British taxpayers money disappears into a Brussels money pit never to be seen again, even they don't know where it goes.
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Old 07-17-2015, 10:10 AM
 
2,878 posts, read 4,629,836 times
Reputation: 3113
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpaul View Post
the original idea of "the Common Market" a simple trading agreement was a good one, by the way that is the only agreement WE(the British people) signed up to, the European Union came later and we never had a say in the matter, this is a purely political system which was signed up by our politicians without our say so, so you can see why most British people don't want the EU, unelected foreign politicians that know nothing about the UK making 80% of our laws again without our say so. British taxpayers money disappears into a Brussels money pit never to be seen again, even they don't know where it goes.
It goes into opening up new consumer markets in Bulgaria, Romania and other new members. It also gives unfettered access to their unexploited natural resources (which they are rich with) to UK companies. At the same time these people are banned from working in the UK labor market. I would say that's a win for the Brits. Finally, the EU presents a unified market/force that is the same size or larger than United States. It is also a good competitor for CIS and China. There are many, many benefits to the EU that are not immediately obvious.
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