Self-Sufficiency is More Important Than Preparedness (farmers, grain, water supply, chickens)

[Nor'Eastah]

OK, they are both important, but this is why I feel self-sufficiency is better.

Preparedness is like a tank of gas - it will get you a certain number of miles down the road. Self-sufficiency is like owning a gas station - you can keep refilling that tank, and traveling farther down that road. Preparedness is like an apple; self-sufficiency is like an apple tree orchard.

I didn't always feel this way. I thought that having a year's supply of food, even two year's supply, plus a bug-out bag and a water filter, was all I could do to be prepared. I still have all those things, but now, I feel that real preparedness - survival - depends on the ability to sustain those preps, to be able to refill them as they are used up.

I do this by having a water supply that is independent of a 220V well pump, and independent of a municipal water main. By producing my own heat (wood) without relying on an oil company or the electric company. By growing our fruits and vegetables, and raising our meats and eggs right here on our own land. By reloading our own ammunition, which my BIL does right here.

I haven't given up on preparedness. I still think it's important to have things stocked up, mostly gear like tools, extra woolen and down clothing, a supply of rotatable fuels like gas, kerosene, propane, and diesel, plus lighting and solar panels and deep-cycle batteries.

But I just feel that if you can't be self-sufficient, preparedness will only get you so far.

[artillery77]

Truly there's no argument on owning the means of production over a stockpile of it....but it kindof depends on what's out there.

I'm sure your eggs are fresh and nutritious, and there's certainly pride in owning the complete cycle. (produce own feed, have chickens, have a coop, can harvest eggs etc.) However, it may be costing you more in terms of time/money than if you simply bought the eggs from a high production place that's supporting everyone else in the system.

So there's a tradeoff. Is self-sufficiency for the unknown where such an activity will be very beneficial, holding you back in the world of today which limits where you can live and the fact that you've got to be there each day to take care of your animals. It also sets your preparedness cycle higher because you may need to stock additional items, such as vet supplies.

Don't take this the wrong way, because I absolutely think it is great, but in theory, it may cost more than simply preparing for something going wrong.

The other aspect is the longevity of a disruption. If the power goes out for a week, having a stockpile would be sufficient. If the power is gone for 6 months, having the means to produce would certainly be the way to go....unless you need to move. Then all of the means for production become additional things lost. Your home becomes the more valuable target for predatory minds, but also has the means to trade for protection.

At the end of the day, I think the best thing to do is keep going with what you're good at. You seem to have skill in many areas, and self-sufficiency (production) would seem the best route to ensure your survival, and certainly farmers that could keep production going in the depression/WWII still were able to eat. I would need to be a trader (hence my aversion to leaving the city) and would likely produce very little, but could distribute effectively. Others can live off the land. Others have the mindset for predators or community builders. Others are good at conservation and hoarding. Best path judgement starts to lose its effectiveness somewhere after self-understanding.

So after the zombies/invading Canadians come, I'll make my way out to you in a trade route. I'll get you meds for your chickens in exchange for some eggs...and maybe some honey if you have bees. That way you don't have to go and get yourself killed wandering into parts of the city you don't know, and of course I'll not want to reveal a source of materials to anyone else. When i come across the predators, they can skin me once and get my small amount on hand, or keep me alive and now they have an ongoing basis or fresh eggs, even if they don't know where they come from.

[Nor'Eastah]

Originally Posted by artillery77

Truly there's no argument on owning the means of production over a stockpile of it....but it kindof depends on what's out there.

I'm sure your eggs are fresh and nutritious, and there's certainly pride in owning the complete cycle. (produce own feed, have chickens, have a coop, can harvest eggs etc.) However, it may be costing you more in terms of time/money than if you simply bought the eggs from a ....

I get what you're saying. But the eggs we get actually cost us nothing. They are a by-product of raising birds (not just chickens) for meat. We get chicken, duck, turkey and goose eggs. Some of these we allow to be hatched for new birds, but the bulk of them are either sold or used by us for breakfast, or in baking. If you have never eaten anything but a store-bought egg, you would be amazed at the difference in the fresh eggs from free range birds. Hopefully I will never have to go back to the pale, runny specimens sold at the store!

By the way, you made me laugh! So you have an aversion to leaving the city? I have an aversion to entering the city - just about any city!

[Zymer]

Being self-sufficient is part and parcel of being 'prepared'. There can be a considerable ramp-up time in learning to be self-sufficient, especially if you are learning by trial and error. If you are thinking in terms of merely stock-piling food for a length of time, eventually there will come a time when you want/need to replace what is running low, and if you think you are going to wait to learn to be your own supplier *then*, you could be in trouble.

I've spent about 5 years learning to grow my own food, and I've barely scratched the surface (pun intended). For the first 3 of those years, everything I tried to grow was wiped out by blight. If you have 2 years of food stockpiled, but it takes you 3 years to learn to get it right...well, the math doesn't quite work and you're in a tight spot.

And once you get a handle on growing it, then you have to get up to speed on preserving it for the months between one harvest to the next without it killing you due to spoilage, and how to save seeds so that you have something to plant for the following year.

Of course, you don't have to be able to produce *every* item you need, you just need to be able to produce a surplus of some things, that other people *don't* produce, so that you can barter for things that they produce but you don't. I have someone nearby with chickens, that produces surplus eggs. I have bees, that (usually***) produce more honey than I can use. So, I can trade honey for eggs...or, I know how to turn honey into alcohol, which I could trade for eggs at probably a better ratio. People are probably only going to use just so much honey for sweetening/cooking/baking, but would consume greater amounts as booze.

***(Harvest sucked this year, due to drought. Most hives made enough honey to get themselves through the winter, but no surplus.)

[MTSilvertip]

2 sides of the same coin.

Being self sufficient means you have to be prepared for blights or droughts, fires, floods, insects, whatever.
If you're working to be self sufficient, then you are amassing skills that can get you through a crisis. For instance, you have a bumper crop of grain, your silos are full +, the prices are good, you can sell at any time and make a good profit.

Self sufficiency teaches you how to grow the grain, preparedness tells you to put that excess money aside because it could be several years until the next great crop with good prices. You may feel you owe it to yourself for a new truck, or a vacation, or whatever, and you may well need some new equipment so now is the time to buy, but prudence tells you that it could be a long winter and you'll need seeds and fertilizer and fuel come spring.

I always thought of being self sufficient as being able to adapt and overcome in any situation, so whether it's growing your own crops, learning to make shoes or leather, learning to fish/hunt/trap, all those are skills you can take with you no matter where you have to go. Yeah, it's tough when you don't have resources like land and equipment, but knowing how to start from scratch is half the battle.

Preparedness means you acknowledge the realities of life, and make preparations to offset those downturns, so whether it's food and water, money or precious metals, or having caches of food and supplies scattered around your various properties, you are still preparing for what might happen.

Those disciplines are complimentary and work together well.

[Zymer]

And it would *appear*, judging from some of the comments made by recent visitors to this forum, that *some* people are under the impression that 'self-sufficiency and preparedness' is *all* about, or *only* about catastrophic disaster scenarios. But that is far from the truth.

Being 'prepared' and having a measure of self-sufficiency allows one to better cope with negative economic conditions that occur regularly and naturally, as part of the ebb and flow of commerce and changing situations such as recessions. I have sometimes heard that we here in Maine tend to be less affected by the negative economic conditions that occur in other parts of the country. Why is that? Because we are somewhat insulated/isolated, a certain amount of self-sufficiency is inherent in the actions and lifestyle of the people who live here (at least, those above the 'Volvo Line' AKA 'Northern Mass.').

During WWI and WWII, 'Victory Gardens' were encouraged, and this was a 'new' thing for many people. But here, this is just a normal part of life for many. We grow things on a regular basis to supplement and reduce our dependency on grocery stores, which saves money for other uses, and allows surplus to be sold to produce income. It's not 'unusual'. Many people still fish, hunt and trap here, for meat and fur, in addition to growing veggies and raising livestock for eggs, meat and milk.

If chicken farms in NC suddenly get shut down due to Salmonella and the price of eggs skyrockets, we don't much care because it doesn't affect us as greatly as it might affect people living in Boston or NYC.

[Garthur]

If you are a real prepper then you have to be self sufficient, but you can be self sufficient without being a prepper.

Most farmers and ranchers around here store food, fuel, and have plenty of water but they are not preppers.

Think about it!

[MTSilvertip]

Originally Posted by Garthur

If you are a real prepper then you have to be self sufficient, but you can be self sufficient without being a prepper.

Most farmers and ranchers around here store food, fuel, and have plenty of water but they are not preppers.

Think about it!

I thought about it, I don't agree.


Maybe they aren't stockpiling MRE's or pallets of ammunition, but many still stockpile food because they fill their freezers with meat and produce they raised.
They already have water sources set up for themselves and their livestock and aren't dependent on a city supply.
They have extra fuel, tools, generators, welders, equipment and tools, they are practicing self sufficiency, but that just means they are prepared for emergencies too, which is really all prepping is.
Many of them also have little use for the government, same as the urban preppers.

In an emergency or disaster, they are already set up as strong points removed from population centers with their own supplies and ability to get more. Many have medicines stocked for their animals that humans could use, and they already know how to do medical work on their livestock, so they could do the same for humans.
They have a skillset that very few urban commandos could match.

Preppers aren't just folks with a bunker and gas masks.

[Nor'Eastah]

Originally Posted by MTSilvertip

They have extra fuel, tools, generators, welders, equipment and tools......Preppers aren't just folks with a bunker and gas masks.

And chainsaws...never forget chainsaws!

[hotzcatz]

Self sufficiency is better than prepping, IMHO. Self sufficiency is a much more optimistic endeavor and also prepares you for a disaster so it can do double duty.