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Old 04-15-2017, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,013 posts, read 14,188,739 times
Reputation: 16727

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming View Post
It will not happen because there is no reason for it to happen. There is a cause for everything that happens.

There is no other shoe. You're squealing your forlorn hope for vindication, nothing more.
I hope you are correct. I fervently hope you are correct. But I am a realist and a pessimist about human nature, ignorance, apathy and arrogance.

[Anecdote mode on]
Back in 1989, while researching U.S. statistical abstracts, I did a prediction of the national debt, if nothing changed its rate of increase. I ran it out to 2020. It hit over 20 trillion. At that time, I thought "This is IMPOSSIBLE. There is no REASON for it to happen!"
We're already at 19+ trillion.
Which requires an ever greater expenditure for DEBT SERVICE.
Which requires an ever greater amount of TAXES.
Which migrate to the retail price where ALL TAXES must shift (How else do companies and laborers get their money to pay taxes?)
{I won't even begin to address the costs for private debt that burden millions of Americans.}
. . . .
What are some of the consequences of this "shift"?
I remember when VW Bugs were $1999, in 1970s.
I recall buying a "luxury" hatchback for $7000 in 1979.
Back in 1989, a new "budget" car cost under $7000.
Today, a "budget" car [2017] will run $14000. [$16000 MSRP]

I sincerely doubt that technological advances required such a dramatic price boost for automobiles. If anything, they're made with less labor, etc.
. . . .
Shopsmith Mark V woodworking system
1950 - $169.50
1980 - $799.99 (370% increase)
2010 - $2999.99 (275% increase)
2012 - $3379.00 (12% increase)
2013 - $3679.00 (9% increase)
2017 - $3829.00 (4% increase)
(differential increase)
Overall price increase : 2,265 %
Or a corresponding 96% drop in buying power of the “dollar bill” from 1950-2017.

Federal Minimum Wage
1950 - 0.75 / hour
1980 - 3.10 / hour
2010 - 7.25 / hour

Hours to work (min. wage) to buy SS tool
1950 : 169.50 / 0.75 = 226 hours
1980 : 799.99 / 3.10 = 258 hours
2010 : 2999.99 / 7.25 = 413 hours
2012 : 3379.00 / 7.25 = 466 hours
2017 : 3559.00 / 7.25 = 491 hours

That's how everybody is getting "poorer" despite having many more "dollar bills."

You work more and more and get less value for it.
And thanks to inflation, GOVERNMENT tax revenues notch up, unnoticed by the muggles.

2016 retrospective
US Per Capita Government Spending for 2017 - Charts
TOTAL SPENDING:
Fed: $3.85 T; State: $1.66 T; Local: $1.81 T; Total: $6.66 T.
% of GDP:
Fed: 20.76%; State: 8.95%; Local: 9.76%; Total: 35.88 %

Gross Public Debt:
Fed: $19.54 T; State: $1.18 T; Local: $1.86 T; Total $22.58 T

Gross Domestic Product (est) 2016: $18.56 T.

Interest on public debt:
Fed: $240.7 B; State: $45.1 B; Local: $61.8 B; Total: $347.7 B.
To put that in perspective, the financial cost of WW2 was $341 B, in 1945.

And all this is operating on $1.47 trillion in Federal Reserve notes.

To predict what is coming next is not hard.
MORE INTEREST PAYMENTS
HIGHER TAXES
MORE INFLATION TO HIDE IT
DEBAUCHERY OF THE MONEY TOKEN
WORK MORE GET LESS - IF YOU CAN FIND WORK
"DOLLAR BILLS" WILL GET SCARCER AND SCARCER
BUSINESSES DOWNSIZE / CLOSE
GOVERNMENT EMPLOYMENT RISES
MORE RECIPIENTS OF PUBLIC CHARITY

And at some point, it will collapse.

Triggers?
  • Political upheaval
  • Conflict between the "Takers" and the "Makers."
  • Ideological strife
  • Invasion pressures from unassimilated minorities
  • Useful Idiots versus Minions
  • Or creditors cease lending to the governments
[] Can't go back to the gold standard. Not enough bullion.
[] Can't pay off the national debt - ever.
[] Can't keep borrowing "Dollar bills" at usury, due to the ever increasing interest cost.
[] Can't keep bribing folks with entitlements while promising to "reduce taxes."

There.Is.No.Remedy.

Hiding all that skullduggery with a war (or unwar) is consistent with the mindset of those who rule us and prey upon us.

Last edited by jetgraphics; 04-15-2017 at 09:47 AM..
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Old 04-15-2017, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Back and Beyond
2,993 posts, read 4,301,121 times
Reputation: 7219
It sure sounds like the drums of war are beating. Trump sold us all this America first garbage and then acts just like his dictator predecessors, bombing Syria unauthorized. Not surprising since he filled his cabinet with a bunch of military generals and increased the military budget. Of course they are foaming at the mouth to use all their toys. And they will.

Either Trump doesn't know he is provoking war with Russia or he is a psychopath and actually wants it to happen. Very scary either way. We are itching for war with Syria, Russia, Iran and North Korea. Where are all the protests to bring keep the troops home at stop meddling in foreign affairs? There aren't any real ones because Americans are too busy watching reality TV. Plus Americans love war. It's in our blood. Whenever there's a few months of down time with no missiles flying around, we get depressed and start looking for a fight. Like an old washed up school yard bully.

I'm sick of the endless wars. Sounds like there is much more to come. I feel duped voting for Trump. Granted Hillary would have been even worse when it comes to war mongering, but I thought Trump might have been a more peaceful diplomatic deal making president. He's now just bought and paid war freak for like everyone else. He certainly lost my respect and future vote with all this war stuff.

The scary part is it seems like America actually wants a nuclear exchange with Russia to happen. It's talked about enough on the media that it seems they are preparing us for it to become reality. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail. Probably not since we are ruled by psychopaths and our country is filled to the brim with extremely unintelligent people.

Here's to more of the same.
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Old 04-15-2017, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,013 posts, read 14,188,739 times
Reputation: 16727
:-:-: IGNORE PARTISAN POLITICS :-:-:

Though we are misled to assume that there is some schism between the “left wing” and the “right wing,” it appears that both wings are attached to the same “vulture” feeding on America’s carcass. (That’s us, if you didn’t quite catch the metaphor)

The left wing "liberators"(slavers) have kept pounding out the message, “Why be a victim and accept poverty? Take property and wealth from others, by force of government!” The right wing "capitalists" (usurers) entice us with, “Why not invest with us and get interest?” Neither admits to the consequences of those activities - compulsory charity, expropriation of property, theft by government decree, bulging bureaucracy, loss of liberty, bankruptcy and perpetual servitude. Nor do they really address the underlying problems of money madness, poverty and loss of rights... by consent of the governed.

:-:-: THE UNSPOKEN REMEDY :-:-:
If you read American law, you may realize that everything government is doing outside of securing endowed rights is based on consent of the governed. He who consents cannot object.

As to the wealth and power of usurers, that is dependent upon the muggles failing to realize that they have the power to create their own medium of exchange (not "lawful money" nor "legal tender"). You've seen private 'liberty' money tokens all your life - as in a coupon denominated in goods or services. Once tendered and discharged, the coupon (private promissory note) is extinguished. The emitter is free to issue as many as he can redeem. And if a community began circulating its own private mediums not borrowed from usurers, nor subject to the government (coupons are untaxed, because they are not a government privilege), cash-poor communities may spark economic recovery.

Those two remedies - withdrawing consent - and issuing private liberty money - would bring down the current regime, and the two "wings."
Without the demand for credit, bankers are ruined.
Without the consent of the governed, politicians are stymied.
And when any business or worker can issue private obligations in lieu of money, and 'buy' what they need, who needs socialism and all its bureaucracy?
Or who needs to need to fight over market share (and that money to pay creditors / shareholders) when everything you have to sell, has a corresponding note / coupon in circulation?

Unfortunately, doing "the right thing" will still result in a collapse, only instead of the People's Democratic Socialist Republic, we may re-boot the Republican Form of Government in these united States of America, where the sovereign people are served (not ruled) by government instituted to secure their endowed rights... or at least one can hope.

Last edited by jetgraphics; 04-15-2017 at 11:35 AM..
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Old 04-15-2017, 02:15 PM
 
6,768 posts, read 5,481,691 times
Reputation: 17641
WE just dropped the MOAB {Mother Of All Bombs} the biggest baddest bomb next to a nuclear one. Do you think Trump is afraid to use another one? and what did he say in an interview about getting the nuclear codes? And N Korea...well he's just itching for a fight......

War of some kind, besides what is already going on....maybe even WWIII is at hand.

Learn to grow your food {hopefully in a fallout free zone}., home can it and cook over a fire...That IS IF you are not of draft age or fit enough to fight...

It's not a matter of will It come, BUT WHEN...

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Old 04-15-2017, 02:51 PM
 
Location: BNA
586 posts, read 554,193 times
Reputation: 1523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming View Post
Just as it did during World War II.
Oh come on—that was a different situation and you know it.

First off, no one knew what an atomic bomb was. Second, we were the only ones who had them and we had two. Compared to average bombs in modern arsenals, the first a-bombs were powerful but didn't even approach megaton range.

Here's three things that would happen tomorrow if countries started using nukes—even tactical ones.

1) People would start hoarding immediately (gas, food, supplies). This action in and of itself would cause a total shutdown of the economy within a day or two as people started to panic—and until the government could put some sort of rationing system in place.

2) There would be a massive exodus from major cities, as people leap to the conclusion that a nuclear exchange is imminent.

3) There would be an immediate run on banks.

All three of these things combined would cause an almost immediate collapse of the stock market and the economy, since you'd have a massive number of people who would simply stop going to work and leave town out of fear.

Do you think otherwise?
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Old 04-15-2017, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,013 posts, read 14,188,739 times
Reputation: 16727
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelfer View Post
Here's three things that would happen tomorrow if countries started using nukes—even tactical ones.

1) People would start hoarding immediately (gas, food, supplies). [Agreed] This action in and of itself would cause a total shutdown of the economy within a day or two as people started to panic—and until the government could put some sort of rationing system in place. [I doubt there would be any government in operation to implement rationing. Once the salaries stop, only volunteers would be active.]

2) There would be a massive exodus from major cities, [Based on evacuations during Katrina, the roads would be impassable in short order] as people leap to the conclusion that a nuclear exchange is imminent. [But to where? What isn't "downwind" of a nuke target?]

3) There would be an immediate run on banks. [With only $1.4 T (approx. $4,310 per capita) available, most people won't be able to "cash out." Ironically, after an attack, the money would be useless.]

All three of these things combined would cause an almost immediate collapse of the stock market and the economy, [Yes, the money based economy would be over]
since you'd have a massive number of people who would simply stop going to work and leave town out of fear. [They'd be "working" but not at jobs "for money."]
The consequence of a nuclear exchange and subsequent events is covered in "Alas, Babylon."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alas,_Babylon
The novel deals with the effects of a nuclear war on the fictional small town of Fort Repose, Florida, which is based upon the actual city of Mount Dora, Florida. The novel's title is derived from the Book of Revelation "Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come."
. . . .
The novel's depiction of the lack of preparedness of most people is a common thread throughout the book. Very sobering reading.
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Old 04-15-2017, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
7,643 posts, read 4,589,722 times
Reputation: 12703
I think it's too early to tel Nor. It's more like we're riding a bike along the top of a mountain range at ever increasing altitudes. A slip to the right, and plunge one way. A slip to the left, and the plunge is the other way. Centralized Banking seeks to keep up us going to ever higher heights, as it gives Federal governments more maneuverability to not have to worry about their deficits, so long as they don't go beyond inflation.

We seem to be moving away from the delation scare. Certainly in a deflationary environment, those that have saved money and paid off their debts are the winners...of should say the least losers. The Fed's balance sheet being mishandled could send us back along that path though, but it seems less likely.

The path now seems to be towards inflation, but it also seems to very well controlled. In an inflationary environment, those that hold cash and pay debt tend to be the losers. Those that acquired assets with debt tend to win. (i.e. US housing market past 30 years)

A trade war could effectively send shock inflation through the economic supply system. There's also an unknown factor for the economy to reposition itself. Say Trump bans Mexican cement. Ok, is it worthy building a US cement plant if it will no longer be able to compete against Mexican imports again in 3 years? If the answer is no, then funds aren't allocated to increasing supply and the price shoots up and there's possible shortages. Productivity declines, but only in countries affected by this action. The rest of the world continues to progress.

Sadly, for an economic SHTF scenario, what tends to happen is the all but unsurvivable inflation/deflation bust. Looking at Zimbabwe, they had massive inflation while the government went crazy. Those that owned land and methods of production with debt should be protected, but then the country dollorizes, as regions with weak currencies will eventually adopt a strong means of saving value. Then you're thrown into the opposite situation. A country where a weak, broken economy and massive unemployment is not out producing the value growth of the dollar, and now prices are sliding. Those that borrowed, if they didn't pay off their debts, now will lose their assets too those debts. (But, who wouldn't have paid them off already...it would have cost .10)

https://www.theindependent.co.zw/201...its-a-new-low/

Not all bad times are the same. Certainly if a central bank is run off course, I'd expect the government to, in general, do exactly what is not needed.

While having a budget and paying your debt off is, in general a good way to insure a nice life. Treat dollars as a slow value loss option to convert into anything pre-SHTF, and a worthless option in some post-SHTF situations. Prep by focusing on being able to do more things. (Shelter self, grow more, medical response, generate heat, generate energy etc.)
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Old 04-15-2017, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Backwoods of Maine
7,488 posts, read 10,482,288 times
Reputation: 21470
Quote:
Originally Posted by artillery77 View Post
I think it's too early to tel Nor... Sadly, for an economic SHTF scenario, what tends to happen is the all but unsurvivable inflation/deflation bust. Looking at Zimbabwe, they had massive inflation while the government went crazy.
I agree that it's probably too early to tell for sure, what will happen.

Since they repealed Glass-Steagall, in the 90s, the banksters have been on a joyride with other people's money. Certainly there has been more fraud and financial misdeeds since then. They almost lost the whole system back in 2008. They should have left Glass-Steagall alone. Now, we are past the point of no return. The damage done cannot be papered over forever.

Modest inflation is the sign of a healthy, growing economy and prosperity among the people. Hyperinflation is always caused by loss of confidence in the currency, not the printing of money. The US is nowhere near that. But we have other problems - unemployment, low wages, lack of savings, too much personal debt, a shrinking middle class. This spells poverty, and the retail sector is hurting from too little disposable income on the part of consumers.

The only way to bring prosperity back may be war.
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Old 04-16-2017, 08:45 AM
 
24,392 posts, read 23,044,056 times
Reputation: 14983
They want a phony cold war, this whole crap with Russian and North Korea and Syria is one big dog and pony show. But the elites have been building bunkers. And there are laws on the US books allowing the use of biological and biochemical agents against civilians as well as the new law authorizing the military to target civilians. Obama signed both.
Start taking down the US population and blame rogue states or the enemy. Or wipe us out just before alien disclosure.
The NWO is nobody's friend.
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Old 04-16-2017, 11:11 AM
 
178 posts, read 173,632 times
Reputation: 235
The problem with a nuclear war. Even a single weapon, is that it will lead to general war at the least and cessation of international commerce at the worst. Today, unlike WW2, we are absolutely dependent on shipping from overseas to survive. Within a week of hostilities, there wont be anything else left to eat. No matter how much money you have.
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