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The real reason why there is a stigma, and I've said this many times, is that state actors do not desire an independent population. To that end, they promote propoganda that makes any form as self-suffiency appear backward, regressive, racist (yes), crazy, unhinged or in the case of something anybody would agree to, like collecting rainwater, straight up illegal for no reason!
Independent population? What is that? Maybe I can envision somewhat independent peasants who pay their dues to feudal mobsters but otherwise were left to live according to their traditions and rules. There was no independence within those village communities. Either you abide by the rules or you were out or even killed. But I really cannot imagine mass highly specialized economy consisting of independent individuals doing their thing. It is impossible no matter what "ism" rules that complex economy. The more complex system the less freedom its cogs can have. No conspiracy required.
I think that it's just any movement or ideology that gravitates to right-of-center are deemed as potential monsters and also the other way around (anyone right-of-center is associated with one or more certain movements or ideologies).
I listen to survivalist radio, youtube channels. I do have an impression that ignorant, mentally/psychologically disturbed people gravitate towards survivalism. So whatever legitimate point to survivalism, the wrong kind of people try to convey it the best they can.
Or, it is ignorant, mentally disturbed people who
gravitate towards judging us by radio and
youtube channels they don't understand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee
Independent population? What is that? Maybe I can envision somewhat independent peasants who pay their dues to feudal mobsters but otherwise were left to live according to their traditions and rules. There was no independence within those village communities. Either you abide by the rules or you were out or even killed. But I really cannot imagine mass highly specialized economy consisting of independent individuals doing their thing. It is impossible no matter what "ism" rules that complex economy. The more complex system the less freedom its cogs can have. No conspiracy required.
OK, you just showed that you can't comprehend the posting you replied to...
I listen to survivalist radio, youtube channels. I do have an impression that ignorant, mentally/psychologically disturbed people gravitate towards survivalism. So whatever legitimate point to survivalism, the wrong kind of people try to convey it the best they can.
I'll make another statement that modern humans have a relative tendency to think like robots especially more pronounced the less one conforms to an established common norm or practice. I have personal experience with this too with talking to my own family.
people have been programmed to follow a certain path deemed "normal" by society, anything outside this is seen as being "strange", "odd" or even "deviant".
Independent population? What is that? Maybe I can envision somewhat independent peasants who pay their dues to feudal mobsters but otherwise were left to live according to their traditions and rules. There was no independence within those village communities. Either you abide by the rules or you were out or even killed. But I really cannot imagine mass highly specialized economy consisting of independent individuals doing their thing. It is impossible no matter what "ism" rules that complex economy. The more complex system the less freedom its cogs can have. No conspiracy required.
My grandfather really should have been a design/engineer type. Born into a very young homesteaded farming area he didn't go to a city for the trade, but instead remained on at an uncles farm after his untimely passing. He was known as a very good mechanic and even acquired one of the first custom combining machinery pieces. He was a farmer. His cousin had a blacksmith shop on the farm. Of course, they all had guns and they were pretty good at getting game from the wild. In those days farmers kept dogs that had a job to do. The mobster of the farmers is the ever falling price of crops, which require scale, and deals with a bank. Prior to the grand leveraging events...farmers were all pretty self sufficient.
The small towns are a bit easier to subvert. The mom and pop stores have no chance against Wal-Mart. Even then there's fewer farmers to provide for as farms get bigger. Plus now you can order things online. Beyond the demand, these days my grandfather would have returned to the cities and become and engineer. A rural brain drain in certain areas occurs as people move to get educated, and then rarely have a reason to return.
Still, neither has anywhere near the narrow band of acceptable behavior that is in the cities. When you have people literally living on top of one another...you can't help but need to figure out amongst the groups how each will act.
My grandfather really should have been a design/engineer type. Born into a very young homesteaded farming area he didn't go to a city for the trade, but instead remained on at an uncles farm after his untimely passing. He was known as a very good mechanic and even acquired one of the first custom combining machinery pieces. He was a farmer. His cousin had a blacksmith shop on the farm. Of course, they all had guns and they were pretty good at getting game from the wild. In those days farmers kept dogs that had a job to do. The mobster of the farmers is the ever falling price of crops, which require scale, and deals with a bank. Prior to the grand leveraging events...farmers were all pretty self sufficient.
The small towns are a bit easier to subvert. The mom and pop stores have no chance against Wal-Mart. Even then there's fewer farmers to provide for as farms get bigger. Plus now you can order things online. Beyond the demand, these days my grandfather would have returned to the cities and become and engineer. A rural brain drain in certain areas occurs as people move to get educated, and then rarely have a reason to return.
Still, neither has anywhere near the narrow band of acceptable behavior that is in the cities. When you have people literally living on top of one another...you can't help but need to figure out amongst the groups how each will act.
I think that your premise is two pronged, that self-sufficiency is impossible or not allowed in urban areas, and that creativity in those areas is stifled or restricted.
There are counter arguments, such as shifting goals, the "monster" really being technology, and population overburden issues. What you imply as causal may simply be effects from larger issues.
I think there is a difference between people who take reasonable actions to be prepared for adverse events, and "preppers" who obsess over it and make it what and who they are. It is about the same as the difference between people who work out to stay in shape and members of the cross fit cult.
To me yes, I have less than favorable notions about the people on the obsessive end of the scale in either example.
I think history shows that the crowd is usually wrong. Fortunes are built by contrarians not by sheep following the herd. Who cares what crowds are told to think? I'm following my instincts. May be wrong but has a better record than following advice from the herd.
Most buy high and sell low. That is what the herd does - they do it because others are doing it.
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