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You're talking about me. No problem. I never claimed to be a firearms expert, and I do not wish to be. I have never seen an AR-15, but I do not need to have detailed knowledge of the weapon to understand what it is capable of and how it has been used in mass shootings.
For the record, I not only "claim" to be ex-military, I am a former mortarman (11C34 as I stated - 3 is for Staff Sergeant, 4 is for Recruiter - I spent time doing that) and served in all peacetime assignments (just making that clear to make sure anyone understands I don't claim to be any type of war hero - I'm far from it). So if you are not convinced I don't have enough knowledge of an M-16 or other military weapons, that is your problem. But I have moved on to another career over the past 25 years.
While I fully support the 2nd Amendment, I recognize it was written at a time of wanting to break away from England and the average citizen had serious threats against them on a frequent basis.
In a perfect world or nation, we could own any weapon we want and store as much ammo as we want. However, many have abused that privilege, such as people like Adam Lanza and his mother who advocated the use of high powered weapons, James Holmes, Stephen Paddock and others.
The problem these days is, the collective moral fiber of this nation is eroding faster and faster every day.
So when you have kids that can't play with their toys in a nice way, you take them away from them. Yup, the kids who played nicely may have to suffer.
Yes, I get that there are many who own high-powered weapons that use them on a range or whatever and there are no problems. We never hear about them. But I also question how many of those weapons end up somewhere else and into the wrong hands of someone unstable.
You can't tell me for a minute that a gun shop owner who may be struggling to make enough money won't sell a weapon for $600-$700 or whatever they cost to someone they see who might be a little off-kilter and they may fudge a background check or even if they do one, it may not turn up anything.
Overall, I view the issue trying to give weight to both sides, The responsible gun owners and the 2nd Amendment and realizing the destruction these high rate of fire weapons have caused. With all these mass shootings over the past 30 some years, this isn't the nation we want.
I'm more than happy to have the next mass shooter executed live on tv and in public to hopefully discourage the next one. I believe if James Holmes, who was an educated college student had seen that execution of a shooter before him, he may have decided not to do what he did.
And I also get that criminals don't follow laws. So, as you can tell, I support widespread and frequent use of the death penalty. Maybe this is what allows the responsible gun owners to keep the weapons they have.
When you can convince one of the family members of a shooting victim that you NEED to have an AR-15 or similar weapon, then I'll change my opinion.
Overall I think we need a solution that provides balance on both sides of the issue. I could go on and on and make my position more clear, but I don't have the time or desire to do so.
Have a wonderful day.
So cliff notes
Your OK with taking away people's rights who have done nothing wrong as long as "it's for the greater good", and your all for lots of executions.
I know you've never held or seen an AR15, but what about that one gun that you and others hate so much makes it too dangerous for civilians to own?
Because when you get down to it and actually compare and look at the issues.. The ar15 is one of about 100 similar gun styles that can do a similar function and rate of fire. Many other guns shoot a larger more dangerou bullet than the ARs lowly 223.
For comparison, let's talk about the AR10, saiga, SKS, MPX, scar mk16 or mk17, ARX160, ACR, M1 carbine, SU16, RD1B, TAVOR, AK47, AK74, M1 Garand, m1a, etc on and on...
Yes, and my apologies for wandering off the topic; I just couldn't help myself! There are an awful lot of these posters out there claiming to be ex-military yet strangely ignorant about firearms.
The ones who carried a rifle were draftees. The last time I touched a rifle was in basic, I never threw a live grenade, fired an M2 or an M60, though loading them looks straightforward enough, and would have no idea how to fire a recoilless.
I'm just a farm kid. Put the sights on the target and squeeze the trigger. Then you bleed it out, get the musk glands off, clean your knife, skin and gut the carcass and bag it to keep the bugs off. After the rigor leaves the meat, cut the good cuts, bone the rest for sausage, and boil the bones for bone broth.
I'm ex-military, but have spent way more time up to my elbows in a warm gut pile than I have spent blowing money out of a rifle barrel. A gun is just a tool for killing things, like a shovel is a tool for digging holes. I didn't buy a backhoe for my tractor because a shovel is good enough. I didn't buy an AR because killing one thing at a time is good enough.
I have bought things at sporting goods stores over the years. I bought a backpack once. It lasted 30 years, and is still good. Mostly I McGuyver my camping gear. Dramamine tubes make good wooden match holders, and I'm still using my Boy Scout mess kit from the '50s. I guess I have gone through half a dozen tents. Modern tents are a marvel of light weight shelter, and every pound you can peel off your back is worth a fortune.
I have never asked any of them how they voted. If they didn't stock what I wanted, I didn't pitch a fit, I just went elsewhere. Right now I'm shopping for a Ruger No. 1, and suspect I would never find one in a sporting goods store.
Right now I'm shopping for a Ruger No. 1, and suspect I would never find one in a sporting goods store.
Ruger No. 1 is a very popular rifle here where long sniper shots are normal across open prairie and mountain to mountain, so yeah, there are Ruger No.1s in just about every sporting goods store or even gas station that sells weapons around here.
CVA has come out with a very good single shot, and the H&R Handi-Rifle is a great choice, both for folks on a budget.
Nice thing about a super accurate single shot was proven in WWII. if you have a single shot weapon and are proficient with it, you use your shot against an individual soldier from the invading army while he's scouting or patrolling, and you have a fully automatic weapon and ammunition.
It isn't the number of shots used, it's how you use them. The Revolution, Mexican War, Civil War were fought with single shot weapons, the most advanced systems of the time, and they killed each other well. Even during WWI and WWII most of the infantry only had bolt action rifles, those worked to kill millions.
One shot one Kill works better than spray and pray, but anti 2nd amendment types don't seem to be able to grasp that.
Last edited by MTSilvertip; 05-10-2018 at 10:25 AM..
Or the fact that some of us are well capable of that single shot, but have a lighweight semiauto carbine because it can make a single shot like that several times before one must do anything but squeeze that trigger again. Which is relevant when shooting competition or hunting hogs or packs of feral dogs/coyotes, or the occasional flock of leftist wannabe dictators, since thats what the amendment was all about, anyway. Never done it yet, stuck to pigs and coyotes and the occasional dog pack so far. But who knows? This country is way overdue for a bit of a dustup, Jefferson would say...
The ones who carried a rifle were draftees. The last time I touched a rifle was in basic, I never threw a live grenade, fired an M2 or an M60, though loading them looks straightforward enough, and would have no idea how to fire a recoilless.
I'm just a farm kid. Put the sights on the target and squeeze the trigger. Then you bleed it out, get the musk glands off, clean your knife, skin and gut the carcass and bag it to keep the bugs off. After the rigor leaves the meat, cut the good cuts, bone the rest for sausage, and boil the bones for bone broth.
I'm ex-military, but have spent way more time up to my elbows in a warm gut pile than I have spent blowing money out of a rifle barrel. A gun is just a tool for killing things, like a shovel is a tool for digging holes. I didn't buy a backhoe for my tractor because a shovel is good enough. I didn't buy an AR because killing one thing at a time is good enough.
I have bought things at sporting goods stores over the years. I bought a backpack once. It lasted 30 years, and is still good. Mostly I McGuyver my camping gear. Dramamine tubes make good wooden match holders, and I'm still using my Boy Scout mess kit from the '50s. I guess I have gone through half a dozen tents. Modern tents are a marvel of light weight shelter, and every pound you can peel off your back is worth a fortune.
I have never asked any of them how they voted. If they didn't stock what I wanted, I didn't pitch a fit, I just went elsewhere. Right now I'm shopping for a Ruger No. 1, and suspect I would never find one in a sporting goods store.
Those who favor reasonable gun control view guns of that sort as sniper rifles. A Ruger No. 1 in .300 Winchester Magnum or a similar chambering can easily kill at 500 yards. Why would anyone need a rifle that can do that? San Francisco once banned telescopic sights. A court threw out that law then, but I doubt that they would do so today.
Those who favor reasonable gun control view guns of that sort as sniper rifles. A Ruger No. 1 in .300 Winchester Magnum or a similar chambering can easily kill at 500 yards. Why would anyone need a rifle that can do that? San Francisco once banned telescopic sights. A court threw out that law then, but I doubt that they would do so today.
I have used worse rifles to make hits at further distances. Used a surplus Mauser 8mm with iron sights and killed a deer at a bit over 400 yards some years ago. Have sat on a railroad trestle and spent the afternoon shooting milk jugs floating down the river with an Enfield 2a with irons, all the way to the bend 500 yards downstream. Those old rifles had good sights for that sort of shooting. An M1A can do as well, better with a scope. A lot of the military surplus rifles I have had shot better than factory hunting rifles. And there have been a few factory guns that were exquisite shooters. Had a Remington 700 Varmint in 308 that would shoot under an inch at 200 reliably. A FN SPR that was almost boring on pumpkins or steel plates out to 600m(that's all the range had). 500 yards is the beginning of the .300's area of responsibility. A good rifle and real shooter can drop game with that caliber beyond 900m. I have seen a slip of a girl behind a pretty heavy rifle in that caliber drop a deer at 937 yards, according to the laser rangefinder. She had routinely made similar shots on steel for over a year before that. A little sawed-off Finn did pretty well with an iron sighted Mosin-Nagant rifle, over 500 dead reds in 100 days earned him the nickname White Death...
Just a note, my AR would likely see little use if they pushed this disarmament thing too far. My purpose for such a gun would generally be in the event that I royally screwed the pooch and had let the other side get within range for it. A backup for that day I need such a thing. Long shooting rifles and shorty short scatterguns would be the tools for that game. And the lefty loonies are afraid of the AR. SMH.
Those who favor reasonable gun control view guns of that sort as sniper rifles. A Ruger No. 1 in .300 Winchester Magnum or a similar chambering can easily kill at 500 yards. Why would anyone need a rifle that can do that? San Francisco once banned telescopic sights. A court threw out that law then, but I doubt that they would do so today.
Your OK with taking away people's rights who have done nothing wrong as long as "it's for the greater good", and your all for lots of executions.
I know you've never held or seen an AR15, but what about that one gun that you and others hate so much makes it too dangerous for civilians to own?
Because when you get down to it and actually compare and look at the issues.. The ar15 is one of about 100 similar gun styles that can do a similar function and rate of fire. Many other guns shoot a larger more dangerou bullet than the ARs lowly 223.
For comparison, let's talk about the AR10, saiga, SKS, MPX, scar mk16 or mk17, ARX160, ACR, M1 carbine, SU16, RD1B, TAVOR, AK47, AK74, M1 Garand, m1a, etc on and on...
Which ones are or are not ok for civilians?
Your OK with taking away people's rights who have done nothing wrong as long as "it's for the greater good"
We deal with this all the time in this country. For example, you can't drive any vehicle you want on public roads. There are laws that govern this. You can't yell "fire" in a movie theater unless there is one.
We both may feel we have the right to pay less taxes. The government apparently has other ideas.
For comparison, let's talk about the AR10, saiga, SKS, MPX, scar mk16 or mk17, ARX160, ACR, M1 carbine, SU16, RD1B, TAVOR, AK47, AK74, M1 Garand, m1a, etc on and on...
The AR-15 was being referred to throughout this thread. I use that as an example of any weapon that puts out a high rate of fire or any weapon that may have been used in a mass shooting. If mentally deranged nuts start using machetes with any frequency for hurting or killing people, I will then be of the opinion we need to do something about those also.
But, yes I am full aware the AR-15 is one of many weapons that can be and have been used in mass shootings. I hope you didn't intend for me to list them all out in my comments.
If executions convince other potential mass killers to not carry out their actions and make for a safer, better nation, then I'm all for it, and I bet many others agree with me. When we have parents, school administrators and students very concerned about going to school or other public areas, I would say we have a problem and this is not the nation we want.
I also believe that more usage of the death penalty would also allow you and others to keep the weapons you wish to hang on to, and is currently your right according to the 2nd Amendment. If you carefully read my previous post, I stated I supported the 2nd Amendment.
But, if it comes to it, I do not think you NOT having the right to own one of the weapons you mention would necessarily be a violation of the 2nd Amendment. But, that will be for the Supreme Court to decide if and when it gets to that point.
My main interest is stopping or at least seriously reduce these ridiculous and pointless mass shootings, as well as a lot of other bad behavior and criminality in this nation. I recognize bad parenting is a large part of it, and I think that is often pushed aside to blame mental health.
... but anti 2nd amendment types don't seem to be able to grasp that.
There are a lot of things the anti 2nd amendment types, and oathbreakers, don't seem to be able to grasp. Things like there is no such thing as "universal background checks" without registration, and no such thing as registration without the door opening to confiscation.
And how we no longer care what their opinion is,
Quote:
Today 04:08 AM
AlmostSeniorinNJ This user is on your Ignore List.
since they have shown they cannot think rationally, and have let it be known that they will use violence (either directly, as with Antifa, Black Lives Matter, and NeoNazis, or by proxy, as in FBI, BATF, and DHS) to deprive us of our God given rights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryboy73
...who knows? This country is way overdue for a bit of a dustup, Jefferson would say...
And the liberals (aka Demoncrats, aka progressives, aka socialists) are relentlessly driving us towards that "dustup." (Which my calculations show will be a major bloodbath.)
There are a lot of things the anti 2nd amendment types, and oathbreakers, don't seem to be able to grasp. Things like there is no such thing as "universal background checks" without registration, and no such thing as registration without the door opening to confiscation.
And how we no longer care what their opinion is,
since they have shown they cannot think rationally, and have let it be known that they will use violence (either directly, as with Antifa, Black Lives Matter, and NeoNazis, or by proxy, as in FBI, BATF, and DHS) to deprive us of our God given rights.
And the liberals (aka Demoncrats, aka progressives, aka socialists) are relentlessly driving us towards that "dustup." (Which my calculations show will be a major bloodbath.)
One thing they seem to have real problems with is understanding that you cannot compare driving a car with owning a gun. Operating a car is not a Constitutional right, owning a gun is a Constitutional right, Like the right to Life which they also feel doesn't apply to babies.
They have unequivocally proven that they do not care about rights, only about their quest for power and control over the lives of those they don't agree with, and are ready and willing to resort to violence to get their way as you noted with their brown shirt thug groups.
I'm afraid you're right that they will keep attacking until they are militarily defeated. They do not wish to use dialogue or listen to any view but their own. It's sad, but the last time the democrat party was on the wrong side of history, it took blood and hundreds of thousands of lives to change their beliefs, and while I don't want another Civil War, that is what it took to enforce the right of all people to liberty, so it seems they've regrouped and are ready for another round.
It's sad, but they're seeing their power base erode, and if illegal aliens (the new democrat voters) are sent home, it may make them desperate enough to try something.
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