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my grandparents lived a true self-sufficient lifestyle and it was not "hippy" in any way. It was just farming back then. I laugh a bit when i hear about the self-sufficient lifestyle now because we called it growing up poor.
They had 2000 acres, of which only 112 tillable acres and they barely made it work. In fact i think they made it work because they just had to...there was no room for failure. I am not laughing at anyone that wants this lifestyle, but i don't think its possible to do today. Between the cost of property, and the yearly cost of property taxes...it would be tough to do without at least one outside income, and if that is the case, then you are not self sufficient.
The other aspect is the work ethics required. Being a farmer, i am regarded as a workaholic and get by on 5 hours of sleep a night, but i consider myself lazy compared to my grandparents. They worked 365 days a year for 60 years just to get by. They worked hard so the rest of us could have it good, and i truly thank them for that. But it was always told to us, they wanted "more" for us. I truly doubt the people today have the determination to do what they did to be truly self-sufficient. I know i don't!
Finally there is the time required. By the time a homestead becomes truly self-sufficient, so many years have passed by that the effects of age takes it hold on the owners, and slowly these homesteads retreat back to "aids of society." it takes a long time to build up livestock and grow gardens and all of that. You can't even buy that here as 90% of the land is woods and 10% arable. Back when my grandparents started out it was more like a 50/50 split.
We farm here and get by, but every year we farm "in the black" its attributed to one thing...downright luck. Some years just seem to be better because we don't have as many break downs. Last year was one such year so we farm for another year...
hello i think it's awesome that people are starting to realize that the way we've been trying to live is not the smartest nor the healthest way for human beings our for our planet. My boyfriend and I are looking for a community like the "amish" to live in but w/out the religous cults. Please let us know if anyone has an idea of where, but for the time being we are looking for apprenceships at biodynamic/organic farms.
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
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This is a great thread. During the "50's' & "60's" I lived my childhood n a Dairy farm in a (still) small town called Cadillac, MI.. I never reallized until I was older that we lived "self sufficient" (pretty much off the land/farm) but as mentioned in other posts, there were some exceptions. I guess I nevere reallized it because that's just the way thing were.
In the early 60's we started selling our milk to Kraft. I'm sure BrokenTap,marmac and acouple others are familiar with the old (hand crank operated) milk seperator with about 20 different filters(approx)
On weekends and during the winter we cut pulpwood for the Forestry a haul 8' logs to a papermill and sawmill located on a Rivers edge near Lake Michigan.
Every source of income was created with the help of us kids. In fact, the logging business is still operated by 2 of my younger brothers.
I could never figure out whether it was a coincidence or not, but, one of my occupations that I've had for the last 21 years is "repairing chainsaws".
The key word to all of this is...."enjoy/love", a person needs to Love and enjoy every minute of what they're doing in order to carry through with all of it.
There was an attempt to form "grazing groups" in our area .
I was enthused, but found out they were mostly " brag" sessions.
I have been rotationally grazing for 16 years and have tried many different things. Some worked great, some needed adjustments, and some didn't work.
I had hoped the group would be an exchange of ideas of what worked and what didn't, but unfortunately it didn't work out that way and I lost interest.
One learns from other people's success and one learns from other people's failure's.
Many people are too proud to share anything that wasn't a great success.
That is true Marmac. We have a similar group where I live, and I am on the fence on whether or not I should join. I have talked with them, and most of what they say is pretty good...very friendly people and they are based out of the same town as me (a true miracle in this small town), but it is just what you say...when I asked questions about other methods of grazing...particularly winter grazing...they dismissed it instantly. All in all it was "oh you got to do what we do."
That is just not so. I did a lot of research into winter grazing, and I have watched my fields for years and years and I think I can get some serious grazing day gains based on the prevailing wind, higher elevation and other unique aspects of this farm. As I have said before, you must match the commodity to the farm and not try to change the farm to match the commodity. This works with farming practices as well. You must match the practice with the farm. In our case no-till farming just does not work because the higher magnesium of our soil here tends to cause compaction problems decreasing yields signifigantly.
I think a lot of small farmers/homesteaders go wrong when they read something on a particular breed, species or crop and think bringing it to their location is going to be easy and in their best interest. You can hardly blame them, these articles are beased on getting people to think that way, when in reality such a choice should be based on a lot of research and experience. I think many people would be farther ahead if they went back and used historical farming practices as an indicator of what would work well.
Okay, I'll start the whole "what did not work" thing..
PIGS!
I know. They make so much sense. They put on good weight from wasted food and everyone loves bacon, pork and ham. They gain weight fast and taste so good! I know I'll get lamb-basted with people saying pigs are the answer, but when we tried to go full-time pig farming it was 3 years of misery.
It started with keeping them in. We couldn't and it was quite common to call up family members for blanket parties. That is where everyone grabs a blanket, runs around 400 acres and tries to catch a running pig while on full tilt. It takes most of the day. and other then laughing about a few near-misses, it typically ends well after sunset and often times in heart-attacks. Nothing like going to the ER smelling like the south end of a very fast north bound pig.
Then there was the issue of keeping them alive. A disease outbreak killed most of the babies, and what they did not kill, the mothers and fathers did. We did try to separate the fathers, but then you must realize keeping a pig OUT of something, was just as hard as keeping them IN something.
Finally there was the cost. Since this was a commercial venture, we ultimately netted a mere $34 dollars per pig. This average was on two separate farms in the family on two separate try's at pig farming. I am not saying pig farming cannot be done...I am saying pig farming did not work for us.
Stawberries was another venture that did not work very well. My poor dad decided that he was going to get into the "Pick your own straw berry business" and proceeded to plant 3 or 4 acres in strawberries. He should have known things would not work out well when he broke the family tractor. Not deterred he decided to grab the neighbors tractor. The man was not home but while some communities would call it stealing, we call it being neighborly here. Anyway he grabbed the guys tractor and went about 50 feet before slashing the back tire...full of calcium cloride... and having to pay for the $400 dollar tire to be fixed. Of course he also had to explain to the neighbor why he borrowed his tractor without asking! (The neighbor completely understood as they were friends).
Well finally both tractors were fixed and the plants were set out in nice clean rows. Well upoin hearing about my Dad's tractor troubles, my Grandfather decided he would help my dad out. Unable to see the transplanted strawberry plants he proceeded to disc harrow the untire field under. Dad was at work so there was no way to stop the destruction, but atlas the destruction was done...and complete!
We never started a "pick your own strawberry" patch in the end.
This example is more practical for the person considering starting a Tree Nursery then funny which the other two examples were.
My dad...King of the "let's try this" method of using our farm to make money outside the box....and probably why I have grown to question outside the box ideas as much as I do. Well anyway he had this desire to start a commercial tree nursery. Not the retail kind you see, but starting trees from seed and selling the seedlings. Everyone said it would work, and with all kinds of enthusiasm he set out.
It made sense. We are heavily laden with trees in Maine and we have had green houses and stuff, so we know how to make stuff grow. So he went ahead and built a modest sized seedling spot at maybe ¼ acre. He tried for 3 years to get native species of trees like White Pine, Hemlock, Spruce, etc to grow into seedlings and bare root stock, but it never happened. The results were sporadic at best and very dismal. I felt pretty bad for my dad, he put a lot into it and really tried to get it to work, but it never materialized
As a side note: My Great Grandfather²tried to get into the silk trade by growing silk worms, but soon found out they could not survive the winter in Maine. In 1834 this was a pyramid scheme that hit Maine. I am kind of ashamed that such a well respected family memeber would fall victim to such a scheme, but it shows that pyramid schemes in farming have existed for as long as farming has existed. Homesteaders and start up Small Farmers please beware. I hate to see anyone get burned.
Thanks for sharing what didn't work on your farm BrokenTap. For all us "newbies", it's good to hear things that we should be aware may not work, not just the "you can do it" messages. There are several crops and ventures I'm not willing to try where I'll be at because I've talked with established farmers in the area, and others that I'm going to start a very small trial with first before committing to (like hogs). Every piece of land is different, and every region has different climate and soil... heck even what works on the next farm over may not work on your humble acres. There is no one-size-fits-all solution to farming and husbandry, just best practices and guidelines. I also agree that researching and understanding historical methods greatly improves ones chances.
Start small...experiment and don't try to force your environment to your desires...
I would have loved a windmill powered water well....but our land isn't conducive to it...so no windmill for me.
I would dearly love to have a small herd of cattle but know it is probably not in the cards,maybe two or three for our own use but otherwise not.
Pigs we will probably have a few,no more than three and no boar as it seems to be a lot of trouble when AI is an alternative.
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i think it's awesome that people are starting to realize that the way we've been trying to live is not the smartest nor the healthest way for human beings our for our planet. My boyfriend and I are looking for a community like the "amish" to live in but w/out the religous cults. Please let us know if anyone has an idea of where, but for the time being we are looking for apprenceships at biodynamic/organic farms.
