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Old 06-02-2009, 05:53 PM
 
Location: USA
4,978 posts, read 9,513,908 times
Reputation: 2506

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Nothing will mean a thing when the dollar doesn't mean anything anymore.

What will owning gold do, when people want water, food, etc.?
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Old 06-02-2009, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,025 posts, read 14,201,797 times
Reputation: 16747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
The amount of gold is irrelevant. We could say that 1 unit of our new currency is worth 1/100000th of an ounce in gold.
Though it's a common belief that Federal Reserve Notes are fiat money (money that has value because the government says it has value), the law says otherwise.

First, a unit dollar is a silver coin. Second, a FR note (dollar bill) is a promise to pay a dollar, in the future. Third, in 1933, Congress repudiated their promise to redeem their notes and went bankrupt. In 1935, via FICA, millions of Americans signed up to be collateral on the debt, and thus allowed Congress to continue borrowing. Or, I should say, allowed special drawing rights with the international bankers.

In essence, paper money is either a certificate of deposit for real money (coin) or a promise to pay money (note).

If you redefine a unit of paper currency in terms of gold, you either have to make it a certificate of deposit (receipt) or a note.

Now, here's the kicker - precious metal coinage is a dead end, a disaster, and unworkable. It's too scarce to operate as a medium of exchange.

Remember, you said you could equate ONE ounce to whatever you wished.

Okay - make one ounce worth a billion quatloos.
What's a man-year of labor worth in terms of that one ounce?
And who would accept that value, in quatloos?
What's your fractional coin made of? Semiprecious metal? Base metal?
Who defines the trade value?
Will others accept it, or refuse it?
And if someone mines one ounce, can he thus trade it for a billion quatloos? Isn't that unjust enrichment. And won't that cause people to seek after gold, rather than laboring to generate surplus goods and services necessary for our civilization?
I think you can follow the line of reasoning.
You just can't peg a value to a coin, without creating a paradox.
Let me rephrase the dilemma - you cannot take a 'thing' out of the set of all things, and assign it a value proportional to the whole set. Because whatever thing you define as money, the equivalent fraction can buy the whole set of money.
Ex: If Gold is proportional to whole set, and if all the gold is 1% of the whole set, then
1% of the gold, as money, can buy ALL of the gold bullion.
0.01 does not equal 1.

Now to the other problem unmentioned by government.
If Congress has the power to borrow money, which is defined as gold or silver coin, where is the 11 trillion or a substantial fraction of that, in gold or silver coin?
Seems like someone extended credit, denominated in dollars, but didn't loan a dime to Uncle Sugar. And over 4 generations, accrued a whopping amount of interest on that principle.

If the Congress was hosed by the bankers, or was hosing the American people, you can see the problem is in plain sight.

Fort Knox depository has only 147 million ounces, worth approx. $2.9 billion if coined.

So we must ask the public servants, "WHERE is all that money lent to the United States government?"
If they cannot account for it, perhaps we should strongly encourage Congress to repudiate the national debt and cease paying interest on those trillions of worthless bonds, T-bills, etc.
Because in 2007 and 2008, Congress borrowed more that it paid interest... which is patently insane.
But who lent any real money to Congress?
Or did the Federal Reserve Banks pilfer all the gold that belongs to the U.S. Treasury?

More money madness
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Old 06-02-2009, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Rockland County New York
2,984 posts, read 5,856,683 times
Reputation: 1298
I'll sit this one out. I'm going to sit on the hillside and watch the dam burst without a care. What ever is going to happen can not be stopped by me. Let the dice fall where they may.
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Old 06-02-2009, 06:20 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,025 posts, read 14,201,797 times
Reputation: 16747
Quote:
Originally Posted by yachtcare View Post
FWIW, I just looked at a dollar bill.....It reads "this note is legal tender for all debts, public and private" the coma is there.

I dont see any punctuation after the titles however
Do you see a PERIOD at the end of the phrase (making it a sentence).
Look closely at the titles - with a magnifying lens, if you need to:
Treasurer of the United States. (period)
Secretary of the Treasury. (period)
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Old 06-06-2009, 05:44 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,025 posts, read 14,201,797 times
Reputation: 16747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stac2007 View Post
I'll sit this one out. I'm going to sit on the hillside and watch the dam burst without a care. What ever is going to happen can not be stopped by me. Let the dice fall where they may.
It's not wise. And you have the choice to move from the United States back to the United States of America.

Articles of Confederation (1777)
Article I. The Stile of this confederacy shall be "The United States of America".

Article II. Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every Power, Jurisdiction and right, which is not by this confederation expressly delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled.
The 50 states united = United States of America
The Federal government = United States, in Congress assembled

(At the ratification of the USCON, only the STATE officers had to swear dual oaths, and thus surrender their sovereignty, freedom and independence. The PEOPLE, which are also States, did not surrender their sovereignty, freedom nor independence. They are explicitly guaranteed their republican form of government.)

FEDERAL CORPORATIONS - The United States government is a foreign corporation with respect to a state.
- - - Volume 19, Corpus Juris Secundum XVIII. Foreign Corporations, Sections 883,884

Everything associated with the "United States" involves a foreign corporation. Even the 'domestic' mail is only delivered to Federal addresses "inside" the United States (federal jurisdiction). A mailbox is "federal territory". Non-domestic mail is not delivered, but held in the main post office, under "General Delivery".

Domestic mail has an address in the form:
NAME
ADDRESS
CITY, STATE, ZIP

Non-Domestic mail has a different form:
ADDRESSEE
HOUSE Number and STREET (or General Delivery)
CITY, STATE, ZIP

If you do not know the difference, you may get into a futile argument with a postmaster in the "United States Postal Service".
What you may want is service by the "Postal Service of the United States of America".

(Ask for a reply card for domestic (green) and non-domestic / international (pink) and note the differences)

Recapping:
Establishing a domicile (not a residence) within the boundaries of the United States of America is sufficient to sever your ties with the foreign corporation.
A domicile, unlike a residence, is a permanent legal home. Ergo, you would need to absolutely own the land and house, as private property (not estate). And you should be aware that only private property is protected from being taken for public use. Once you have a domicile, and cease volunteering to be a subject citizen, you can exercise sovereign prerogatives of natural and personal liberty. Coincidentally, only U.S. citizens / residents can participate in national socialism. American nationals, free inhabitants, domiciled in the USA are ineligible.
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Old 06-06-2009, 07:47 AM
 
Location: North Central Florida
6,218 posts, read 7,728,615 times
Reputation: 3939
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post

Recapping:
Establishing a domicile (not a residence) within the boundaries of the United States of America is sufficient to sever your ties with the foreign corporation.
A domicile, unlike a residence, is a permanent legal home. Ergo, you would need to absolutely own the land and house, as private property (not estate). And you should be aware that only private property is protected from being taken for public use. Once you have a domicile, and cease volunteering to be a subject citizen, you can exercise sovereign prerogatives of natural and personal liberty. Coincidentally, only U.S. citizens / residents can participate in national socialism. American nationals, free inhabitants, domiciled in the USA are ineligible.

Interesting in the extreme......A twist for you..Say I own the home, absolutely, but it is not attached to any land, but sits on the land, the case of an RV for example. How about a boat, it can be absolutely owned, and can swing at anchor, detached from the land.....

Once I have "volunteered" to becaome a citizen, as most of us have via our parents getting an assigned number for us at an early age, how does one un volunteer?..........
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Old 06-07-2009, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,025 posts, read 14,201,797 times
Reputation: 16747
Quote:
Originally Posted by yachtcare View Post
Interesting in the extreme......A twist for you..Say I own the home, absolutely, but it is not attached to any land, but sits on the land, the case of an RV for example. How about a boat, it can be absolutely owned, and can swing at anchor, detached from the land.....

Once I have "volunteered" to becaome a citizen, as most of us have via our parents getting an assigned number for us at an early age, how does one un volunteer?..........
If your home is not permanent (as in attached to the land) it won't qualify as a domicile.

Restoring one's sovereignty? First, you should educate yourself to a few concepts and terms in law. Here's an interesting place to begin:
"The better to secure and perpetuate mutual friendship and intercourse among the people of the different states in this union, the free inhabitants of each of these states...shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of free citizens in the several states; ...."
[Article IV of the Articles of Confederation (1777)]
Who are "free inhabitants" that are NOT "free citizens" ?
"INHABITANT -One who resides actually and permanently in a given place, and has his domicile there."
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, p.782

"DOMICILE - A person's legal home. That place where a man has his true, fixed, and permanent home and principal establishment, and to which whenever he is absent he has the intention of returning." - - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, p.484

"RESIDENCE - Place where one actually lives ... Residence implies something more than physical presence and something less than domicile. The terms 'resident' and 'residence' have no precise legal meaning... [One can have many residences but only one domicile]
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, p.1308, 1309
Free inhabitants (non-citizens) have a permanent and legal home.

Citizen / residents with a residence, do not have a permanent legal home.
"In common usage, the term 'person' does not include the sovereign, [and] statutes employing the [word] are ordinarily construed to exclude it."
Wilson v. Omaha Indian Tribe, 442 U.S. 653, 667, 61 L.Ed2. 153, 99 S.Ct. 2529 (1979)
(quoting United States v. Cooper Corp. 312 U.S. 600, 604, 85 L.Ed. 1071, 61 S.Ct. 742 (1941)).


"A Sovereign cannot be named in any statute as merely a 'person' or 'any person'".
Wills v. Michigan State Police, 105 L.Ed. 45 (1989)
Please note, American people who are sovereign, cannot be named as a "person" in any statute (law).

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." [14th Amendment, Section 1.]

---------------------------------

Since 1935, most Americans have volunteered to be citizens / socialists / paupers at law. But if you read the law, you'll find that there is no law that imposes citizenship nor requires participation in national socialism.



More reference info:
Yahoo! Groups
http://www.city-data.com/forum/7528795-post55.html
http://www.city-data.com/forum/9119481-post62.html
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Old 08-19-2018, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Spain
12,722 posts, read 7,574,122 times
Reputation: 22634
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViewFromThePeak View Post
Get out of bonds and the dollar. You've been warned.
Of course history has shown that neither of these had a significant drop, and in fact one would have missed out on a hell of a bond bull market had they followed your poor advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ViewFromThePeak View Post
My bunker is in foreign stocks, gold, and certain investments not touchable by uncle sam. Better than any millennium bunker that could be made.
You would have far underperformed US stocks since the time of your post in 2009.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ViewFromThePeak View Post
Feels good to be right again and again
Irony.
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Old 08-19-2018, 02:08 PM
 
1,326 posts, read 2,581,794 times
Reputation: 1862
Viewfromthepeak must be in hiding or dead, he hasn't posted since 2009, but he did make 3700 posts between April and September of that year.
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Old 08-20-2018, 01:27 PM
 
2,898 posts, read 1,868,294 times
Reputation: 6174
I have been thoroughly enjoying 2016-present. The market has done very very well.

So we'll in fact I'm worried it's over due for a correction.

Global markets have also not had a strong month and typically have had losses.

I'm keeping an eye on the market as I'm not sure if it will continue its trajectory or for how long.
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