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I think (and this should be in keeping with the direction the thread has taken, although I always question what mods will and won't deem off topic) that unless someone simply doesn't care, it will always be in human nature to attempt to improve our conditions.
I could SURVIVE with the bare minimum in food and shelter. Of course, I can never think of such a scenario without thinking of a scene from my childhood.
Having grown up with a "mother" (again, think bare minimum when it comes to qualifications) who didn't make a lot of fuss about whether I'd eaten on any given day or not, I've been hungry before (though one would wonder to see my corpulent self now).
After going to live with my father down on the farm, I never went hungry again. No matter what else my father's shortcomings he NEVER failed to make sure there was plenty of food on the table and available to me.
One day my little buddy from down the road decided we should try our hand at camping, back in the hills and forests, for a week or so.
"Yeah," I said, becoming enthused. "We'll need..." and then I began to list off foodstuffs and equipment for creature comforts while still "roughing it".
"NO!" my friend exclaimed, dismayed at my apparent ignorance. "All we need is a rifle, a handful of salt and a potato!"
It was then my father, who grew up during the Depression era, began to laugh out loud. Turning to my mother he said "ONE of these boys has gone hungry before and never wants to do it again. Can you guess which one?"
Obviously survival varies, depending on one's situation. Clearly it would be impossible to cart one's garden plot along on the road if mobility became of paramount concern. Ease of carriage, mobility, the ability to scale rocks, climb hills, descend ravines, walk endless hours on tough, burning asphalt... these would be factors in what one deemed "necessity".
If I had only a 10x12 plot to call my own and only a cardboard box in which to live, I could do it. But once my situation seemed a bit more stable, does anything think I give a tinker's damn what the minimalists tell me I do or do not need? Or will I come across a larger cardboard box, fit my smaller one inside it and begin to fill and line the gap with newspaper I scrounge from wastebins and want-ad stands? When that works, will I seek out some form of padding to soften the ground beneath me?
NEED -- no, I'd have already proved that by my time in the one box.
But it's in human nature, so long as some form of stability can be achieved, to want to improve one's lot.
I think (and this should be in keeping with the direction the thread has taken, although I always question what mods will and won't deem off topic)
Fwiw, Im the sole mod for this forum now and if anyone has a penchant for going off-topic, it's me, so I rarely if ever enforce the off-topic rule - I even have been known to leave chatting, so y'all can feel free to go for it.
I only give the denialists one chat about the value of preparation (whatever prep makes sense to them); after that, they'll not hear word one from me as long as they don't expect me to take care of them when TSHTF.
I don't plan for specific EVENTS, I plan for specific SCENARIOS -- regardless of the event that may leas to them. Things like food shortages, epidemic, civil unrest, weather/natural disaster. Most of the things you need to prepare for most scenarios are redundant, so you can prep for a multitude of scenarios with the same sets of supplies and skills. The key is figuring out what stuff/skills have multiple applications and focus on those first. The only reason to focus on something with limited application as a first priority is if you have a very high probability of something specific happening (like a storm cellar in hurricane alley).
But, really, survival and self-sufficiency/reliance is really more of mindset than an action. As noted by several folks, most people these days do not have that mentality, and a few others have way overdeveloped it! Once you have mastered some basic skills -- you can find and coook food, build a shelter, make a fire, etc -- then you have more confidence and probability that you can survive in *any* situation that may come up. The rest of the gooies and toys are just gravy. I'd love a tractor, but not having one wouldn't stop me from digging a hole with a stick or rock to plant a garden. Giving up because the task isn't easy just isn't an option.
I've been hungry before. I've been poor before. I've been homeless before. What that taught me is that I can survive most whatever gets thrown at me, and eventually make it a bit more comfortable than just getting by.
Those people will never get it, don't try. You will get the last laugh when they are out in the cold after the collapse.
I don't consider it a last laugh, or a laugh at all. I consider it a fraggin' tragedy and a major inconvenience since those without always come looking.
I know certain things are inevitable and everybody can't be saved in the event of even a short-term disaster. Accidents happen every day in this world and that's the long and short of it. However, I always feel badly for kids trapped by parental ignorance and/or short-sightedness or worse, blatant stupidity.
Ignorance, apathy, dependence. I talk to people and they seem more accepting if you put it in the context of a natural disaster. I've told my family to get out of debt and out of the stock market for now unless they are speculating for that quick win (but mostly loss ).
So many just assume that the government will come to help. Do they not remember Katrina aftermath ? Somehow they think it will be different if it involves them. Or I hear..well I'll just run to XXXX and get supplies. Yeah..you and 50K others running to the store for that "loaf of bread and extra milk".
I've come to the conclusion that I cannot force them to see and be prepared. I can tell them, urge them and give them examples of what happened in the past. That's all I can do.
I've come to the conclusion that I cannot force them to see and be prepared. I can tell them, urge them and give them examples of what happened in the past. That's all I can do.
Ditto.
There is only so much you can do for those who don't want to help themselves (whatever their reasoning for doing nothing might be).
If someone is truly interested - I'll tell them everything I know and teach them everything I know, but I've stopped wasting my time with those who are not ready to hear.
This thread is paranoid delusional. Does that make me a denialist?
Look, good times or bad, life is meant to be lived. Is a life spent hiding in a spam bunker a life worth living? How does a life of fear of "the man" stalking you (as if any of us were really THAT important to the gov?) get fun?
Plan for the worst, but hope for the best, as they say. Too many are only doing the first part.
Look, good times or bad, life is meant to be lived.
And a car is meant to be driven. I think we all can agree on that. If you get a flat tire, is it easier to keep driving the car if you have a spare in the trunk or if you don't? Is having a spare tire paranoid? It sure hasn't seemed that way to me when I've needed it.
That's the way I look at having a bit of extra food on hand. If for some reason (even if it's something as simple as losing my job) I can't get food from the store, it's going to be easier to keep my stomach from growling and my stature from starting to resemble a concentration camp inmate if I have a little food stashed away for that rainy day. I'm not planning for a zombie invasion; I'm simply storing a little extra food just as anyone with half a brain would have a couple of extra batteries in the house for their flashlight in case the old ones go dead. What's so paranoid about that?
Honestly, I think some of you people would think it paranoid to have a change of underwear in the drawer.
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