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Old 11-04-2006, 10:42 PM
 
Location: Polish Hill, Pittsburgh, PA
30,579 posts, read 68,119,809 times
Reputation: 16267

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Quote:
Originally Posted by elfyum View Post
First off, Areyouserious? is SO right on!!!!!!! (& deserving of 10 reps! ) Sorry MoMark (are you the red head?) but I totally disagree with you! I work in hospitality/customer service & believe WHOLE HEARTEDLY in great customer service! We all know what it feels like to be on the OTHER end, & if a company has poor customer service, I don't want to give them my business. And it is an absolute fact that happy employees are in a good mood & it shows in the way they treat their customers. I am one of those - I do my job & do it WELL, but if I can stay late & go above & beyond, then I don't want to hear nit picking because I couldn't find parking or there was an accident! Pick your arguments carefully or you will lose your best employees!!! Not that companies with that anal retentive crap CARE LESS anyway!!! It's that corporate robot mentality which you can STICK YOU KNOW WHERE!!!
In the past, I've routinely stayed longer at work, sometimes for up to a total of twelve hours, in order to help our store function in the event of call-offs. Last Friday I canceled my evening social plans and volunteered to close so that our customers wouldn't be forced to suffer without loading assistance. Yesterday I agreed to switch from first-shift to second-shift at the last minute in order to help out the store to cover the vacancies created by two of my co-workers just quitting on the spot due to the negative store environment, once again canceling my social plans in the process. Today I stayed an extra half-hour to keep a steady stream of carts piling into the store so that my co-worker (who would be working alone outside from 2-10:30), wouldn't have to arrive to a messy situation! What do I get in return for my efforts? Not a single thank-you from anyone for how miserable and slave-driven I'm becoming, and I only get the "runaround" whenever I ask what will happen to me, as well as our customers, when I'm the only guy they have left! If I show up late fifteen minutes for a shift because I got stuck in traffic on I-81 behind an accident or got a flat tire and received hell for it from management, I'd walk right out without giving my two weeks' notice after continually going above and beyond to try to help our store without ever being appreciated for my sacrifices. If our managers think it's so easy to be double-majoring while nearly working full-time, being a secretary, attending various committee meetings, and trying to manage a brand new romantic relationship simultaneously, then I'll trade lives with them at any point in time to take home their six-figure compensation packages!

MoMark, I disagree with you entirely. If you'd be perfectly-willing to make an already degraded employee who frequently goes "above and beyond" to help out his/her company feel even more degraded by chastising them for being fifteen minutes late due to unforeseeable circumstances, then you're a TERRIBLE manager, and I'd tell you so right to your face right before rattling off how many unexpected shift changes, shift lengthenings, etc. I volunteered for in the preceding weeks to keep your profit margins high and your customers happy, and then walking out the door! I know that our store would quite literally COLLAPSE if I put my two weeks' notice in, as not only am I the only loader we really have outside, but others in other departments who have seen the way I've been mistreated also pledged that they'd likewise quit en masse in a show of support for me if the store ever lost me. How would you deal with THAT, MoMark? I'm all ears to see what the "book" would say about that type of situation.
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Old 11-04-2006, 10:42 PM
 
Location: Just a few miles outside of St. Louis
1,921 posts, read 5,199,662 times
Reputation: 1200
ScrantonWilkesBarre,

Honey, if you were my son, I would tell you to start looking for another job, as soon as possible. (As a matter of fact, I have told my son that before. He used to work at Winn-Dixie. Talk about lack of skilled, professional management! ). While I applaud your efforts to do your job at Lowe's in as efficient a manner as possible, there is no reason to allow yourself to be used in this way. Line up another job, give your two week notice and get the heck out of Dodge. Life is too short to put yourself through that much misery.
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Old 11-04-2006, 10:48 PM
 
Location: Polish Hill, Pittsburgh, PA
30,579 posts, read 68,119,809 times
Reputation: 16267
Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticLady1 View Post
ScrantonWilkesBarre,

Honey, if you were my son, I would tell you to start looking for another job, as soon as possible. (As a matter of fact, I have told my son that before. He used to work at Winn-Dixie. Talk about lack of skilled, professional management! ). While I applaud your efforts to do your job at Lowe's in as efficient a manner as possible, there is no reason to allow yourself to be used in this way. Line up another job, give your two week notice and get the heck out of Dodge. Life is too short to put yourself through that much misery.
Thanks for the kinds words! Believe me, I have toyed around with the idea of searching for another job, but this is Scranton; I'm not going to have much luck matching $9/hr in this area, unless I go into the food service industry (and I won't work in our local smoky restaurants due to my fear of prolonged second-hand smoke exposure). I'm trying to bank as much money as I can to defray student loan expenditures, as well as to put towards the down payment of my first home in a few years, and I'm not willing to drop back down to $6.50/hr. just to have a better working environment. I'd rather be kicked around all the time for $9/hr. rather than appreciated and respected for $6.50/hr. (Isn't it sad that I was just replying to messages on the NJ forum in which people whined about not being able to "survive" on salaries of $200,000 per year while jobs just 90 minutes away here in Scranton don't even pay 1/10 that amount?)
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Old 11-04-2006, 11:06 PM
 
Location: Springfield, Missouri
2,814 posts, read 12,143,061 times
Reputation: 2000001325
Elfyum (yes, I'm the redhead) and ScantonWilkesBarre. Listen, I hear ya! But, judging by your messages, I'm pretty sure you missed what I was saying and the distinction I was making when speaking of professionalism and attendance. Here's from my first posting:
"If there was a particular issue that was occuring that was causing a good employee to be late, we would discuss it with HR and see if there was a way we could change the schedule of the person to accomodate him or her. We couldn't always do it because business needs overrode. We also had a problem with new hires agreeing to a specific schedule to get hired, but then reneging after and begging for a schedule change. On those people I had no empathy or sympathy, and it happened a lot. I don't have a problem with WalMart's policy, it's very typical. I just hope that store managers still have the ability to intervene in unique circumstances where the attendance problem truly is caused by other factors and make changes for a good employee where possible.
Areyouserious is coming from a different direction. It's clear from his posting that he believes he had a bad manager. Judging by his proud recounting of his telling him off, there was a history there. He berated him with insults that had nothing to do with attendance , but everything to do with nailing his balls to the wall because of other issues he didn't like. Clearly there was a history there...and, we don't know what his attendance history was. It may have been good, it may have been awful. I agreed the manager should never have dressed him down, but read what Areyouserious had to say and tell me it's all about attendance?
"I cut that man up six ways to Sunday, made sure I pointed out every inadequacy and shortcoming related to his management, and told him to get down on one knee and see how long he could hold his breath while kissing my.... Then I walked out the door...""
Tell me what that has to do with attendance? That's just plain immaturity and meanspiritedness. He was no better than his manager. He seems to acknowledge he was wrong because he then says: "Granted, I was just a kid then, and it was a lousy retail sales job. I certainly would not do that where I am today."
My argument is that he excuses absenteeism because he worked the day before more hours. Then he ties it to legality, breaking labor laws, whatever. In other words, his reaction when called on being late (remember, I agree his boss was apparently an a$$) was to throw completely unrelated reasons into the pile to excuse his tardy. I call that unprofessional. I acknowledged everything that can be done should be done for a good employee whose absenteeism is caused by factors beyond professionalism, factors beyond his or her control when possible. I made that clear. I managed almost 200 people. I intervened all the time to acknowledge human factors. I made a distinction between chronic unprofessional behavior and "life happens" to good employees. Is that not coming through???
Areyouserious goes on to say: "I'm sorry, I'm not a clockwatcher, and I don't want to work for a company that watches the clock either. I understand you need phone coverage and all, but 15 minutes is a bit much. MORE than 15 minutes I understand, but 15 minutes or less, thats just silly" Do you think he'd think someone being late is unprofessional if it were him on the phone to his credit card, satellite company, bank to report a stolen card, Internal Revenue Service seeking help, doctor's office trying to make an emergency appointment and he had to wait 15 minutes which may have had him be late himself (well..not him...they(his work) 'wouldn't dare mention it'... )while waiting for someone to answer his call? Do you both think that's professional? And let's say someone answers the phone for one of those places you've called and in your peeve you say "what the hell took you so long, I've been on this phone, late for work, and waiting 15 minutes". Would you accept a reply like: "Oh, sorry, I was late this morning..tee hee...it's allowed here. Ok, how can I help you?" ?? Still feel the same? My disagreement with Areyouserious is his attitude about not tying professionalism to attendance. I made room for exceptions and life. He made it clear in his posting he had a lot of baggage he used his manager's bad behavior to jump him on, and justify his tardy. My point is...it wasn't justified. It might have been better excused, then again, we don't know his history of attendance to that point, but either way, the extra work the day before did not excuse it. These are the distinctions I've made. Please don't ask me to explain any further, this copy/paste/save thing has exhausted me!
Still think I'm a "terrible" manager ScrantonWilkesBarre? And yes, you should quit that job. It's not worth it.

Last edited by MoMark; 11-04-2006 at 11:46 PM..
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Old 11-04-2006, 11:06 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids, MN
571 posts, read 2,312,542 times
Reputation: 310
Scranton,

Are they hiring at Home Depot?

Seriously, that sucks! I worked for a Wal-Mart type store once and walked off my shift due to similar poor treatment. I was also in college and working two jobs at the time. I just decided that "second" job wasn't worth the misery (plus the money wasn't very good anyway) so I left. That was the first and last time I ever walked off a job, but I'll tell ya, it was very liberating!
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Old 11-04-2006, 11:08 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,773 posts, read 30,566,028 times
Reputation: 30359
Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticLady1 View Post
ScrantonWilkesBarre,

Honey, if you were my son, I would tell you to start looking for another job, as soon as possible. (As a matter of fact, I have told my son that before. He used to work at Winn-Dixie. Talk about lack of skilled, professional management! ). While I applaud your efforts to do your job at Lowe's in as efficient a manner as possible, there is no reason to allow yourself to be used in this way. Line up another job, give your two week notice and get the heck out of Dodge. Life is too short to put yourself through that much misery.
I agree with this person, Life is WAY too short to put yourself throught that! Isn't there anything else there? You must live in a small town. I am really sorry to read about all of this. If you were my son I'd tell you the same thing.
It sounds like you're giving 110% and there has to be someone else who would appreciate that. I really hope things get better! What are planning to when you get out of school?
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Old 11-04-2006, 11:14 PM
 
Location: Just a few miles outside of St. Louis
1,921 posts, read 5,199,662 times
Reputation: 1200
ScrantonWilkesBarre,

I admire your gumption, but please, for the sake of your own health, do consider searching high and low for something else. (Maybe a move is in order?). Sorry, that's sounds "motherly", but from one of your other posts, I noticed that you are 20, the same age as my son, and I just had to say something. Trust me on this one, honey, you won't stay 20 for ever. Don't allow yourself to get stuck in a hateful job, and wake up a few years down the road, wondering where the time went. Take care of yourself, physically, spiritually, mentally, and emotionally. Don't let 'em wear you down! (Okay, I will now climb down off of my maternal soap box. )
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Old 11-04-2006, 11:40 PM
 
Location: In exile, plotting my coup
2,408 posts, read 13,442,485 times
Reputation: 1793
Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticLady1 View Post
ScrantonWilkesBarre,

I admire your gumption, but please, for the sake of your own health, do consider searching high and low for something else. (Maybe a move is in order?). Sorry, that's sounds "motherly", but from one of your other posts, I noticed that you are 20, the same age as my son, and I just had to say something. Trust me on this one, honey, you won't stay 20 for ever. Don't allow yourself to get stuck in a hateful job, and wake up a few years down the road, wondering where the time went. Take care of yourself, physically, spiritually, mentally, and emotionally. Don't let 'em wear you down! (Okay, I will now climb down off of my maternal soap box. )
I have to agree with this advice. I don't know exactly how the economy is in Scranton, but I would think that it's like many places in this country where entry-level retail jobs are a dime-a-dozen which is why it makes no sense to me for supervisors on these jobs to treat their employees badly, because there's nothing stopping them from just finding another retail job where at the drop of a hat. If your boss at Wal-Mart sucks, then oftentimes there's nothing stopping someone from quitting and picking up a similar job at Home Depot or Sears or Costco or wherever. They're essentially interchangeable and if you have no strong desire to continue working at a particular establishment, and most people don't as they're just students doing it for some part-time work for some extra cash, then shop around and try someplace else on for size where you can make just as much money (if not more), be less-stressed and be treated better by your superiors. It's great to be a loyal employee, respectful of co-workers and customers, but if that respect doesn't run both ways, then you have to question why it is you're even bothering with the job in the first place.
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Old 11-05-2006, 12:00 AM
 
Location: Springfield, Missouri
2,814 posts, read 12,143,061 times
Reputation: 2000001325
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScrantonWilkesBarre View Post
MoMark, I disagree with you entirely. If you'd be perfectly-willing to make an already degraded employee who frequently goes "above and beyond" to help out his/her company feel even more degraded by chastising them for being fifteen minutes late due to unforeseeable circumstances, then you're a TERRIBLE manager, and I'd tell you so right to your face right before rattling off how many unexpected shift changes, shift lengthenings, etc. I volunteered for in the preceding weeks to keep your profit margins high and your customers happy, and then walking out the door! I know that our store would quite literally COLLAPSE if I put my two weeks' notice in, as not only am I the only loader we really have outside, but others in other departments who have seen the way I've been mistreated also pledged that they'd likewise quit en masse in a show of support for me if the store ever lost me. How would you deal with THAT, MoMark? I'm all ears to see what the "book" would say about that type of situation.
I have to say, as much as I respect your posts and admire your spirit, you disappointed me here ScrantonWilkesBarre. I don't mind anyone disagreeing with me, especially if they point clearly to the reason and show that we've been gathering facts from a common point. I felt really offended when I read this part of your posting. I don't think attacking me like that was fair. It also, in my view, doesn't reflect any postings or things I've stated up to this point that would lead one to this conclusion. I don't consult a "book".
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Old 11-05-2006, 12:52 AM
 
Location: Polish Hill, Pittsburgh, PA
30,579 posts, read 68,119,809 times
Reputation: 16267
Question My Take On Two of Your Quotes: PART ONE

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoMark View Post
I have to say, as much as I respect your posts and admire your spirit, you disappointed me here ScrantonWilkesBarre. I don't mind anyone disagreeing with me, especially if they point clearly to the reason and show that we've been gathering facts from a common point. I felt really offended when I read this part of your posting. I don't think attacking me like that was fair. It also, in my view, doesn't reflect any postings or things I've stated up to this point that would lead one to this conclusion. I don't consult a "book".
The following two quotes of yours made me jump to conclusions, and I apologize if I overanalyzed them and was offended by them just from a misinterpretation of your tone inflection: "You could have resigned if you didn't like the company, it's management, or its policies. You chose to work there. No one made you do it. Apparently your level of maturity hasn't risen much since this incident you seem so proud of. I can assure you you wouldn't have lasted long under me... I can also speak from long experience that you're disillusioned if you somehow think that such behavior truly inspires respect from others. I'm not impressed with your argument at all." Also, "However, it doesn't matter if you worked 16 hours the day before. That doesn't excuse your having been fifteen minutes late the next day."

First of all, let's take the 16-hour workday issue vs. being in on time the next day. Isn't that even illegal to begin with? Do you mean to tell me that if you asked an employee of yours to put in an unexpected 16-hour workday, that you'd thank them by chastising them the next day if they were 15 minutes late due to sheer exhaustion? I don't know what type of industry you happen to be in specifically, but I can tell you that there's a huge difference between sitting in an office and chatting on the phone vs. lifting refrigerators all day outdoors in the PA winter weather! The day I pulled the volunteer 12-hour shift was a Friday during the summer when I worked from 11 AM-10:30 PM (Okay, so 11.5 hours, but it was still draining when you feel pressured to not take breaks). I was then expected to work again from 6 AM-3 PM the next day, Saturday, our busiest day of the week (I guess in some industries you don't work weekends! LOL!). When I went to bed that evening at around 11:15 PM and had to arise the next day at 4:45 AM (just five hours of sleep), I was horrifically exhausted, yet my strong work ethic told me I had to be in on time at 6 AM just in case there was even one customer that wouldn't get help loading drywall at 6:02 AM if I were even five minutes late! Now, that entire shift on Saturday I was alone again, and by 11 AM I was already about to keel over from exhaustion, but I kept on truckin' right along until 3 PM, when I drove home and plopped myself right down for some sleep! If you think that some "slack" isn't acceptable in that type of a scenario with working a total of 21.5 hours in the span of around 28 hours, then there's something seriously wrong. That's the impression I got from your statement with "AreYouSerious" in basically saying that the previous day's workload was irrelevant and doesn't "excuse you" from being late. I could have very easily told the company on Friday "No. You're on your own tonight. It's not my problem anymore that you can't retain your workers." Or I could have just said "Heck with it!" and called off work on Saturday due to stress and exhaustion. Did I do either? Nope. Management should have just been happy for that, not nitpicking if I showed up at 6:10 AM the morning after that grueling shift! By your own admittance in that phrase, the dedication I displayed the prior evening would have meant nothing compared to brief tardiness the next day!
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