Mouse supposedly baked into hot dog roll (cell phone, store, best)

[manicotti]

I find it no wonder that quality is tanking. We have a workforce of many people barely paid enough to live. I am unfortunately one of those. I make 25 cents above the state minimum wage where I live. I personally have a work ethic that is such that I do my job to the best of my abilities, regardless of the pay. This is not a widespread phenomenon. Most people in low-paying positions could really care less. As long as the real workers and producers of the product in this country are allowed to be paid this ridiculous amount, quality will continue to tank. Our economy will not improve by funding the corporations who are starving their workers. The rich at the top of these corporations for the most part do not buy the mainstream and widely produced products. They generally buy specialty. This does not contribute a great deal to the economy. It is us at the bottom who contribute vastly to our economy. Until we are paid a reasonable amount, nothing will change that greatly. Our economy is seeing the effects of greed in a major way at this point. This bailout money would have been more effective by far if it was not used as a tool to get political connections out of the trouble they have gotten themselves into. It could have gone to everyone in this country, evenly divided among all. This would have had a wonderful effect on the economy. As long as this greed is kept up, I firmly believe our troubles will increase and continue to effect us. We may recover for periods of time, but I would not count on a long-term improvement. Companies that are failing should go under. Dead weight has been proven to drag down the economy. Instead, we are going further into debt to keep these incompetents afloat. What are your thoughts on what I have stated here? I am extremely curious.

[swagger]

What do you do? How many other people can do your job?

Wages aren't set arbitrarily. Skilled labor has value, and employers pay for it accordingly. Unskilled labor is exactly that - jobs just about anyone can do, and employers pay for that accordingly as well.

[Hesster]

What I'm wondering is what the title on this thread has to do with the post?

[Rickers]

About as much as someone finding a syringe in their can of Pepsi ! I think the OP was suggesting that when workers feel under paid and unappreciated they can make ummm "mistakes" !

[manicotti]

Originally Posted by swagger

What do you do? How many other people can do your job?

Wages aren't set arbitrarily. Skilled labor has value, and employers pay for it accordingly. Unskilled labor is exactly that - jobs just about anyone can do, and employers pay for that accordingly as well.

I do understand what you are saying, but I am talking about the vast disparity between pay grades. Anyone with a little common sense can do most "skilled" jobs. Not everyone in a minimum wage or low-paying job is incompetent or without skills. Skilled labor definitely should be payed well, but in quite a few cases it is not. I was speaking in terms of upper management. Most are quite incompetent at their jobs as one can easily see at even a glance in most companies. How does one live on $7.90 per hour? Am I supposed to starve because others can do my work? When the district manager of the store at which I am employed can afford to own a private plane and travels in this manner, is this really reasonable? Don't I deserve a bit more? Maybe enough to live on and save so that I can get somewhere? I have an iq of 145. I am by no means stupid. Any extra money I might get lucky enough to keep, goes toward bare maintenance of my vehicle. If something should happen, I will be done. I wonder if anyone has any idea that the American dream is most often out of reach for people like myself anymore. I hear a lot of comments from those who have no idea what the horrible pay has been for people attempting to start out anymore. Most people simply have no clue. I would like to see a modern example of someone who has made something out of themselves in my exact position. I challenge anyone to show me this. Intern positions and apprentice positions really no longer exist. If a company paid me 10 per hour, then I might be able to live. People paid a better wage save the company quite a bit of money, because they care. The increased quality of work more than pays for these increases. Companies used to have morals to a certain extent and cared about turning a profit. Now they mostly care about getting as rich as possible and taking off(Enron!). No, the wages are not arbitrary in the least. They are designed to maximize the ridiculous bonus for the upper level guys who basically bungle the company and take off for another disastrous run at a new company. I am by no means downing the rich or competent management. One side of my family is quite wealthy and have owned several companies. They did not make a success by paying their workers poorly. They cared and payed quite well. Their businesses have grown vastly, and continue to grow. How can one with a clean conscious pay someone so low and constantly attempt to chisel more work out of them every day?

[manicotti]

Originally Posted by rickers

About as much as someone finding a syringe in their can of Pepsi ! I think the OP was suggesting that when workers feel under paid and unappreciated they can make ummm "mistakes" !

That is exactly what I was attempting to state. Thank you.

[swagger]

Originally Posted by manicotti

Anyone with a little common sense can do most "skilled" jobs.

No, they can't.

"Common sense" is not a skill. Knowing how to operate an earth mover is a skill. Being able to work on jet engines is a skill. Knowing how to bake pastries is a skill. I have plenty of common sense, but I wouldn't know the first thing about how to do any of those jobs.

Not everyone in a minimum wage or low-paying job is incompetent or without skills.

Then they accepted the wrong job.

How does one live on $7.90 per hour? Am I supposed to starve because others can do my work?

That's entirely up to you. YOU accepted the position that pays 7.9/hr. Nobody forced you to take it. If you feel you deserve more, ask for it. If your employer refuses, you can either keep the job or find another one - the choice is yours, and yours alone.

When the district manager of the store at which I am employed can afford to own a private plane and travels in this manner, is this really reasonable?

So you apparently work in retail. Case closed. If you want more money, get out of retail, or work towards a management position.

As for what is "reasonable", I have no idea - you haven't given us anywhere near enough detail to make any judgment on that.

Don't I deserve a bit more? Maybe enough to live on and save so that I can get somewhere?

I don't know. Do you? If you think you do, go out and get it, instead of whining on the Internet about it.

I have an iq of 145. I am by no means stupid.

Then you should easily be able to attain the skills necessary to earn more than 7.9/hr. Stop whining and pick up a book or something. Knowledge is a valuable asset, and is worth money in the job market. You'll never get out of your rut if you keep your retail job and do nothing to improve your situation but complain online.

I would like to see a modern example of someone who has made something out of themselves in my exact position. I challenge anyone to show me this.

Me. Challenge met.

If a company paid me 10 per hour, then I might be able to live.

I don't know - you have Internet access - which is a luxury. You probably have a cell phone, too - another luxury. You said something about a car...

I hate to sound like a broken record, but if you want more money, it's up to you to go get it. Companies are in business to make money, not to support you. That was your parents' job. Now it's your turn to support yourself, and you wanting more money does not equate to you being deserving of more money. What you're looking for is charity, not earned income.

No, the wages are not arbitrary in the least. They are designed to maximize the ridiculous bonus for the upper level guys who basically bungle the company and take off for another disastrous run at a new company.

Like many, you're looking at a few very visible examples in recent headlines and assuming that the rest of the businesses in the country act just like them. Don't be a fool - you have an IQ of 145, right? You should know better. Apparently, you do:

One side of my family is quite wealthy and have owned several companies. They did not make a success by paying their workers poorly. They cared and payed quite well.

See? You're proving my point for me.

[manicotti]

Originally Posted by swagger

No, they can't.

"Common sense" is not a skill. Knowing how to operate an earth mover is a skill. Being able to work on jet engines is a skill. Knowing how to bake pastries is a skill. I have plenty of common sense, but I wouldn't know the first thing about how to do any of those jobs.


Then they accepted the wrong job.


That's entirely up to you. YOU accepted the position that pays 7.9/hr. Nobody forced you to take it. If you feel you deserve more, ask for it. If your employer refuses, you can either keep the job or find another one - the choice is yours, and yours alone.


So you apparently work in retail. Case closed. If you want more money, get out of retail, or work towards a management position.

As for what is "reasonable", I have no idea - you haven't given us anywhere near enough detail to make any judgment on that.


I don't know. Do you? If you think you do, go out and get it, instead of whining on the Internet about it.


Then you should easily be able to attain the skills necessary to earn more than 7.9/hr. Stop whining and pick up a book or something. Knowledge is a valuable asset, and is worth money in the job market. You'll never get out of your rut if you keep your retail job and do nothing to improve your situation but complain online.


Me. Challenge met.


I don't know - you have Internet access - which is a luxury. You probably have a cell phone, too - another luxury. You said something about a car...

I hate to sound like a broken record, but if you want more money, it's up to you to go get it. Companies are in business to make money, not to support you. That was your parents' job. Now it's your turn to support yourself, and you wanting more money does not equate to you being deserving of more money. What you're looking for is charity, not earned income.


Like many, you're looking at a few very visible examples in recent headlines and assuming that the rest of the businesses in the country act just like them. Don't be a fool - you have an IQ of 145, right? You should know better. Apparently, you do:

See? You're proving my point for me.

I understand your points. But I don't understand the attacks about whining. Personally, I don't understand any attacks. If you call this whining, then get out of a debate forum. It was a post meant to stimulate some conversation on this topic. I get the feeling that you are an older person who has already gotten where they are going in life when a lot more was possible. Otherwise you would understand that being intelligent is not a guarantee of anything in this day and age. If I do not have a diploma, there is only so far I can go. As to my comment on common sense and skilled labor, I qualified that issue. I referred to manual and other forms of skilled labor that are not management positions(not skilled labor) as positions that should pay more.

As to my many luxuries, I do not have a cell phone. I have someone nice enough to let me use their internet access. In addition, please explain how one gets around without a vehicle? Is this such a luxury? Please explain how you met my challenge? I did not see a single mention of how you became successful. Keep in mind, this is not a personal attack. I simply don't understand why anyone comes onto a debate site and does not expect to hear posts such as mine and feels the need to personally attack someone. I also get the feeling that you have already made many assumptions about myself, in which case nothing anyone says will change your mind. PS - Have you noticed the economy lately?

[manicotti]

Originally Posted by swagger

No, they can't.

"Common sense" is not a skill. Knowing how to operate an earth mover is a skill. Being able to work on jet engines is a skill. Knowing how to bake pastries is a skill. I have plenty of common sense, but I wouldn't know the first thing about how to do any of those jobs.


Then they accepted the wrong job.


That's entirely up to you. YOU accepted the position that pays 7.9/hr. Nobody forced you to take it. If you feel you deserve more, ask for it. If your employer refuses, you can either keep the job or find another one - the choice is yours, and yours alone.


So you apparently work in retail. Case closed. If you want more money, get out of retail, or work towards a management position.

As for what is "reasonable", I have no idea - you haven't given us anywhere near enough detail to make any judgment on that.


I don't know. Do you? If you think you do, go out and get it, instead of whining on the Internet about it.


Then you should easily be able to attain the skills necessary to earn more than 7.9/hr. Stop whining and pick up a book or something. Knowledge is a valuable asset, and is worth money in the job market. You'll never get out of your rut if you keep your retail job and do nothing to improve your situation but complain online.


Me. Challenge met.


I don't know - you have Internet access - which is a luxury. You probably have a cell phone, too - another luxury. You said something about a car...

I hate to sound like a broken record, but if you want more money, it's up to you to go get it. Companies are in business to make money, not to support you. That was your parents' job. Now it's your turn to support yourself, and you wanting more money does not equate to you being deserving of more money. What you're looking for is charity, not earned income.


Like many, you're looking at a few very visible examples in recent headlines and assuming that the rest of the businesses in the country act just like them. Don't be a fool - you have an IQ of 145, right? You should know better. Apparently, you do:

See? You're proving my point for me.

Just to give a little more background so we can have a decent debate, if you are interested, I will explain a little more. Knowledge is worthless in the job market of today without a diploma. Most store management requires a diploma. I am not a welfare recipient or of this attitude. I do not have children and I am not married. I do not waste the money that I make. As I stated, companies can make far more profit by way of paying employees enough to allow them to live. The fact that they do not is a great indicator of what I have previously stated. Yes, they are in business to make money. I state this quite often when individuals attack a business simply because they wish to turn a profit(why they exist to begin with). I have already picked up a book in my life. I have been reading since I was old enough to do so. I speak several languages and am well informed in much skilled labor. I do not have a diploma or a certification. This is the necessary requirement. Not knowledge. I can repair my own vehicle. If I could not, I would be in a far worse situation than the present. Everyone of us can always do a little more in the way of bettering ourselves. But, I believed that in my posted reply to yourself, I made it fairly clear what my position is at the present. Most of the points made in your reply were already countered in my original reply to your post. I am not sure if you read my whole post or not. This behavior with companies has been noticed by myself far before the "headlines". I am not an avid watcher of the latest headlines. I am not gullible, and do not eat them up as a valid indicator of global activity. I realize that good news rarely makes its way to the public. I have personally had the experience of working at a company that started destroying itself through bad scandals and incompetent decision-making. This is not isolated to these companies as Enron or any other headline-grabber. This is a widespread phenomenon. I know this due to personal experience and actual research. I like to go behind the scenes on issues and find out the reality of what is going on. I most certainly am not one who glances through an article and assumes I know the whole situation. I despise this kind of unfortunate modern thinking. I previously attempted to be quite fair to business. My point was that at some point, it became impossible to gain a job through mere internship or apprenticeship. These and experience fail to be requirements for any positions today. A certification or a diploma remain the sole ways through which one can rise in the employment market. These become impossible to obtain when one is living from paycheck to paycheck. As for my parents, I believe it has no bearing on the present. Being utterly unsarcastic, try to check out what I have stated. Please, think of the things in life you might take for granted, then imagine if the ones related to lack of money were not there. Then try to imagine gaining headway in employment endeavors. 50 Years ago, and actually less, people were able to gain employment based on intelligence or based on knowledge without a college degree or a certification. This is not the case anymore. I have yet to hear of anyone recently gaining employment by walking into an auto garage or any other better-paying position and being hired by offering nothing more than knowledge and ability. I also find this to be a ridiculous waste of resources. I am by far not the only one around with a decent level of intelligence. There are many like myself who are terribly wasted by the employment world everyday.