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Old 02-25-2014, 12:52 AM
 
Location: too far from the sea
20,681 posts, read 19,635,008 times
Reputation: 35616

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Lately ebay has been really lenient in their policies for both buyers and sellers. They change their tune from time to time.

I'm not in favor of getting honest negative feedback removed and I know some sellers have a policy of just calling ebay and asking to have it removed.

As a seller, I have never had a negative since I started in 1998 yet I got one a few weeks ago that was unfair. If it had been fair I would have let it stand but since it was not true I called ebay and they removed it. They also allowed the buyer to keep the item but I think they refunded my money too. So everybody won.

They swerve from one extreme to the other, first being all for the buyers but then the buyers abuse the system so they start to favor the sellers, then the sellers start to abuse the system. Now they seem to be trying to please both sides. Don't know how long this will last.

It if makes you feel better, the sellers to put up with some terrible and dishonest buyers who lie, scam them, and leave undeserved negatives. There are rotten people on both sides but the majority are good decent buyers and sellers.
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Old 02-25-2014, 01:37 AM
 
2 posts, read 3,963 times
Reputation: 13
Ok I know my idea is a lot to take in..
Just to restate the order
And clarify that
I do not have the time to do all of this so someone else needs to step up if they are serious and not just venting.


Someone needs to start a website for those who have left feedback and had it removed.
As this list of users increases at some point it will become obvious that a great deal of feedback is being removed.
We also need to start a list of any buyer that incurred return shipping fees on any Ebay purchase.

Part of what happens here is it becomes up to users to provide the burden of proof that they would not have made a purchase requiring a return if they had access to the proper feedback information.

It does not really matter if the purchase was made from someone who had the Negative Feedback Removed or not. All that is required is "burden" which is the key word here.

If any buyer states they would likely not have made a purchase if the information was available to them. The point being once removed it is no longer available to them. Therefor making the decision to buy inconsistent with Ebay Policy.

This is how anyone proves the burden of proof. In a case like Feedback removal all a buyer must do is show intent. This can be done by showing sellers that have poor feedback that one did not choose to buy from because of the feedback. That is enough to support the idea that Feedback is an important factor in making the decision to buy.

So burden of proof is not a difficult task here. The task is in getting the numbers who have been damaged. It will be possible to subpoena
all records of Feedback removal once we have enough that state their feedback was removed. We can ask for all records of Feedback removal as if it was posted at one time, Ebay will be required by law to keep a record of the feedback they have removed. Once posted it becomes public record so once it is removed Ebay must keep a record of it because it at one time it would have been seen by the public! We can also eventually subpoena all records of Paypal returned funds for items purchased on Ebay. We can deduce that many returned funds were for items that the buyer had to send back to receive these returned funds.. Yes there are times a seller simply refunds and says keep the item but these are few and far between. From this information we can make a logical guess as to what these items cost buyers in shipping returns to the original sellers.

If we go back far enough it may be a staggering number. It would not surprise me if Ebay decided to settle and or reinstate the original feedback. Feedback is now posted yearly but the older feedback is available. If pressure is applied Ebay may have to either edit their user agreement or change their feedback policy.
It is historically important for Companies to abide by the Policy they make. If a Company alters their published policy causing damage to its users they often are held responsible for those damages.

Regardless of the wording of a user agreement buyers and sellers trust in any published policy and a violation of that policy is a violation of that trust causing any agreement between the company and it's users to be null and void. Therefor allowing suit making damages recoverable.

Yes it is a lot of work but it is also a great deal of money involved.

Ebay is not going to like my thoughts here..I have nothing against Ebay ..I like Ebay...I have been both buyer and seller but in all fairness to any buyer Taking advantage of a buyer by ignoring a stated policy is wrong and anyone that was defrauded by the removal of important information has a right to recovery. I was born in America and the system of free enterprise has meaning to me but taking advantage of any consumer should be punished if Ebay is deliberately ignoring a policy that. It's users rely on to make proper decisions they should be held accountable.
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:13 AM
 
Location: The Southern Sac's, NM
1,872 posts, read 2,993,505 times
Reputation: 2888
Couple of thoughts...

1) The reason sellers are so aggressive in getting bad feedback removed is because there is a monetary value attached to it. Good ratings = Top Rated Seller status, which gets you a 20% discount on Final Value Fees. Bad ratings = removal of that status and the cost to sell raises significantly.

If eBay agreed to remove that qualification from the TRS status, the sellers might not take the time to move heaven and earth to get them removed, and we would see a greater range of honest feedback opinions (and that's just what they are - opinions) and buyers could make a better buying decision.

2) Back in Nov 2012 eBay changed the user agreement to include an Agreement To Arbitrate clause in section B.5 of the "Legal Disputes" section, where you agree not to take ebay to court in a class action suit. If you did not agree to the new UA, you could not continue to buy or sell on ebay. They were quite firm about it. If you clicked the "no I do not agree" button, it took you to a page to close your account.

You could, however, opt out by sending a registered letter to a designated address in Utah stating that you wanted to opt out of the Agreement To Arbitrate. But I don't know how many people went to that trouble. And new users since Nov 2012 would just be opted in, unknowingly and automatically.
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:53 AM
 
2 posts, read 3,967 times
Reputation: 12
In the case of the seller I have been watching, I do not think it's eBay removing their negative feedback. I don't know how they are doing it, but I can only guess that they found some loophole to exploit.

The seller I've been watching has had at least 16 bad feedback removed in less than a month. And they are not that large of a seller. Even the big box retailers on eBay (that are said to have their feedback cleaned) don't get all of their bad feedback removed. And this seller in question was not even Top Rated until a few days ago.

Again, if anyone could please let me know who these sellers are that are having their all of their negative feedback dishonestly removed, it would be appreciated.
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Old 03-18-2014, 03:16 PM
 
5 posts, read 7,285 times
Reputation: 10
Ebay removed my negative comment about a seller after he misrepresented a car. My comment was 100% true saying, "buyer beware, he has been kicked off eBay at least once for misrepresenting good." He was uncooperative, refused to work with me or VPP. Others should be warned! True negative comments should not be deleted.
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Old 03-18-2014, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Yellow cottage, green doors.
16,420 posts, read 13,324,158 times
Reputation: 72436
If "he" was "kicked off" of Ebay, then how did you buy from him?
Often, comments should be deleted. One trollish person comes along and a serious seller gets it jammed to them, big time.
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:48 PM
 
2 posts, read 2,943 times
Reputation: 10
What an interesting thread this has been. I came here because I'm dealing with quite the opposite. My husband and I are moving and therefore are trying to sell everything, ebay is going well for that.

Anyway, we sold an item which was in use in our house until we listed it, it's a network switch. We also tested it before sending it out to the person who won it, just in case. It was working great. He opened a case that the item wasn't working at all and that I'm to refund him and if I wanted the item back I could pay him to send it. He then asked for my email address so he could email me some videos of it not working.

I replied to the case that even through we state we do not accept returns, if the item is not working, please upload his video to youtube, and send me the link via the case and perhaps we can figure out what's going on (we're both IT professionals) and if not, please send it back and we'd grant him a full refund.

He replied that he did not feel he had to spend the time uploading the video to youtube and demanded I give him my email address and to issue him a refund immediately. I then replied that once I received the item or a link to the video to review I would issue a refund within 24 hours.

I didn't hear back.

He escalated it to ebay after a week and the item was covered under buyer protection and basically settled in both of our favor. He then left the feedback of: sold junk -had to have ebay envoke Money-Back Guarantee to get refund-BE CAREFUL.

I contacted ebay in regards to feedback removal as well as to let them know how he demanded my email address. I'm wondering if I can expect the feedback to be removed. I feel that it was unfair.
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Old 03-19-2014, 07:29 AM
 
Location: The Southern Sac's, NM
1,872 posts, read 2,993,505 times
Reputation: 2888
159753JLS - Thanks for posting the other side of the story. Sounds like you were the victim of a typical extortion attempt. Buyer wants to keep the item plus get a refund.

I can't figure out why he insisted on your email address though, he should already have it from the original PayPal payment.

Settled in both your favors - does that mean eBay refunded him out of their own pocket? That's good. It puts him on their radar and the next time he tries it, it will show a history. Hopefully it will be his last.

I hope you get your feedback removed. You might, want to call eBay CS back and follow up. Good luck

Last edited by NMNan; 03-19-2014 at 07:48 AM..
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Old 03-19-2014, 07:54 AM
 
5 posts, read 7,285 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainroosty View Post
If "he" was "kicked off" of Ebay, then how did you buy from him?
Often, comments should be deleted. One trollish person comes along and a serious seller gets it jammed to them, big time.
He was kicked off after I made my purchase. He misrepresented a product and when I explained my position to eBay they said he committed fraud, but he was put back on. After he was put back on I was able to leave negative feedback that was 100% correct only to have him get it removed somehow. I than sent an email to suggestions at eBay and my negative comment has reappeared...I'm not sure this is over yet
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Old 03-19-2014, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Yellow cottage, green doors.
16,420 posts, read 13,324,158 times
Reputation: 72436
Quote:
Originally Posted by rich-heale View Post
He was kicked off after I made my purchase. He misrepresented a product and when I explained my position to eBay they said he committed fraud, but he was put back on. After he was put back on I was able to leave negative feedback that was 100% correct only to have him get it removed somehow. I than sent an email to suggestions at eBay and my negative comment has reappeared...I'm not sure this is over yet


I am interested to see what happens next. Ebay does do some surprising things...things that I don't think are too cool.
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