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Old 08-10-2007, 12:48 AM
 
2,960 posts, read 1,992,535 times
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Default De-Facto Polygamy

On some sociobiology sites I visit the guys are convinced that U.S culture is shifting towards de-facto polygamy. Women have become more picky and will only date alpha males, basically only good looking, tall, high status, high income males.

According to this theory women are sharing a shrinking pool of acceptable alpha males. The men in demand will bounce around from one woman to the next whle other men will be single and alone their entire lives. Husbands and boyfriends will cheat more than ever and women will no longer be jealous, they would rather share an alpha male with other women than have an exclusive relationship with a non-alpha.

I was starting to believe the theory was correct, that we are in a quasi-polygymous culture and women want it that way. But then I see on dating sites that women don't want "players" and many women even express hatred towards cheating men. This is so common and widespread that I am convinced that women don't want polygamy or anything close to it.

What I think happened is that women have indeed become more selective without realizing that it increases men's cheating. It's simple supply and demand.

Another ramification of women being more picky is the huge increase in single mothers. I know a woman with three children from three different fathers. She didn't care if any of the men would make loving and responsible husbands or fathers, but she insisted that the men were "hot". I believe that traditionally our culture put little or no emphasis on male appearene as a protective device to increase the chances that children were raised in a stable loving two-parent enviornment.

What are your thoughts on this subject?
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Old 08-10-2007, 01:11 AM
 
16,622 posts, read 15,549,616 times
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I think it is crazy. Woman, to me, most, anyway, do not only go for the man you are explaining. They look inside. Thats what I thought I did many years ago, a man with nothing. His eyes were beautiful, and then, so was his heart, but those things changed.

Now, later,,,,,,very later. Alpha male...I am not an animal. Good person. Indeed.
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Old 08-10-2007, 01:29 AM
 
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I think that women are getting pickier in some areas (like integrity) but less so in others (like seeing the man as "the breadwinner"). So, there may be a shift in what women want but I believe most men will still be able to deliver. I can't imagine a specific characteristic being so essential and rare that the majority of males would become obsolete for lack of it. We humans have always been pretty adaptable.
Nah, I don't think we're headed for polygamy.
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Old 08-10-2007, 02:27 AM
 
Location: Warwick, NY
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Women are pickier than ever. They're more sexually aggressive too and so increase the number of potential mates by being free to actively go after the men who attract them. As you say, women can now earn freely and be self-supportive so they don't need the financial security that men used to give. That independence of sexuality, reproduction, and financial security has transformed women enormously over the past 30 years.

There is also the situation of women saying they want a certain kind of guy but actually choosing a different kind. The classic example is the woman who says she wants a guy who is kind, sensitve, reliable, and thoughtful but then dates every A-hole in the neighborhood who treats her like poo. It's as though their head says one thing but their loins say another.

I truly think women miss out on a lot of good men because their standard for men has risen so high that only a few men can meet it. We've created a whole trophy husband syndrome among younger women who are willing to wait 10 or 15 years for Mr. Right to show-up and if he doesn't, well then he doesn't. She can always go to the sperm bank and get pregnant and do the single mother bit if she's realy motivated so the whole biological clock is something of a non-issue as well.

I call it the Sex In the City Syndrome.

Women have transformed from Charlotte into Samantha in less than two generations. It's pretty amazing and yes, I'm happy for women on some level, but it leaves a lot of men very insecure. They don't look like Big, don't earn like Big, and aren't as... well..."big" as Big. They hear all kinds of conflicting information on how to please women and what one girl loves another will slap you across the face for.

It's rought being a man out there trying to find women whose every expectation you can satisfy.
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Old 08-10-2007, 10:54 AM
 
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I think you make a lot of really good points, Jason. Sadly, it seems the media has a lot to do with giving both men and women unrealistic expectations.

I have noticed, though, that most of us approaching our mid-years seem to be a little more realistic. And, I think that maturity helps us zero in on what qualities are truly important to us and which are not.
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Old 08-10-2007, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Jax
8,204 posts, read 22,649,372 times
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Keep your hands off my Alpha Male !

A lot of my husband's male friends are single. There is a similarity between them. They are in their early 40's, good-looking, nice guys, but there's something a little off with each of them.

These guys have never been married and have retained a bit too much of their boyishness (still a punk rocker at 43? Not so attractive ). They are also lacking in confidence. This leads to a certain immaturity in their professional lives as well, so they are not big earners.

Some have already resolved to living life alone, others are out there and trying really hard but not really meeting anyone significant.

There have always been some women who've traded fidelity for cash when they chose their spouses, but I'd hate to see this become a trend. My female friends who have chosen this path are very sad inside. They have the big fancy house and all the trimmings, but they're very lonely and melancholy.
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Old 08-10-2007, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Houston, TX
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Oh, that explains why women don't mind when I date and flirt with other women, and have asked me to share
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Old 08-10-2007, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Warwick, NY
1,172 posts, read 4,132,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riveree View Post
Keep your hands off my Alpha Male !

A lot of my husband's male friends are single. There is a similarity between them. They are in their early 40's, good-looking, nice guys, but there's something a little off with each of them.

These guys have never been married and have retained a bit too much of their boyishness (still a punk rocker at 43? Not so attractive ). They are also lacking in confidence. This leads to a certain immaturity in their professional lives as well, so they are not big earners.

Some have already resolved to living life alone, others are out there and trying really hard but not really meeting anyone significant.

There have always been some women who've traded fidelity for cash when they chose their spouses, but I'd hate to see this become a trend. My female friends who have chosen this path are very sad inside. They have the big fancy house and all the trimmings, but they're very lonely and melancholy.
You've just encapsulated the problem. You have lonely female friends and your husband has lonely male friends. The females wanted money, and the males aren't worthy of consideration because they're not big earners, are too boyish, and lack confidence. Maybe it's the rejection from all the lonely women with unrealistic expectations that caused the lack of confidence?
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Old 08-10-2007, 12:46 PM
 
12,421 posts, read 10,894,670 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay F View Post
On some sociobiology sites I visit the guys are convinced that U.S culture is shifting towards de-facto polygamy. Women have become more picky and will only date alpha males, basically only good looking, tall, high status, high income males.

According to this theory women are sharing a shrinking pool of acceptable alpha males. The men in demand will bounce around from one woman to the next whle other men will be single and alone their entire lives. Husbands and boyfriends will cheat more than ever and women will no longer be jealous, they would rather share an alpha male with other women than have an exclusive relationship with a non-alpha.

I was starting to believe the theory was correct, that we are in a quasi-polygymous culture and women want it that way. But then I see on dating sites that women don't want "players" and many women even express hatred towards cheating men. This is so common and widespread that I am convinced that women don't want polygamy or anything close to it.

What I think happened is that women have indeed become more selective without realizing that it increases men's cheating. It's simple supply and demand.

Another ramification of women being more picky is the huge increase in single mothers. I know a woman with three children from three different fathers. She didn't care if any of the men would make loving and responsible husbands or fathers, but she insisted that the men were "hot". I believe that traditionally our culture put little or no emphasis on male appearene as a protective device to increase the chances that children were raised in a stable loving two-parent enviornment.

What are your thoughts on this subject?


well, then, if men cheat, then they are not the total alpha male that those women thought they had....
I believe what our society also has to do is teach males to control themselves a little better, and it is possible...b/c there are men out there that not only can, but will.

I take it very personal when someone cheats on their spouse...especially comeone whom I've admired...it always hurts so to find out...I'd rather not know, actually.....

to me, it would just be so simply to leave first and do the right thing by everyone involved...to me, someone who cheats is like someone who crawls out from under a rock....unacceptable...also, both people, both men and women, if you cheat with a man, or a woman, I don't care who you are, it is unacceptable...and both of you are at fault...and if one didn't tell the other and you found out later, then you should leave, cuz that person, even if he leaves his spouse for you, will evenutally do the same thing to you...you are not any more special to that person...

I was cheated on, and I loath a cheater...and I surely wouldn't ever want to hurt another woman they way I've been hurt.

Just my thoughts...
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Old 08-10-2007, 03:31 PM
 
2,960 posts, read 1,992,535 times
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Maybe this was discussed in another thread, but I am very skeptical of the whole "confidence" thing. I think that if you were to give a scientific test measuring confidence to a large group of males, many of the men that women think are confident would score as insecure while many of the men that women perceive as lacking confidence are in reality full of confidence.

When I was in college I was a 120 pound weakling nice guy. My roommate was hypermasculine bodybuilder. He would literally cry to me about how he didn't feel like he was big enough and that he wasn't a real man. I on the other hand loved myself and was extremely self confident. Every woman we met thought he was confident and I wasn't..every woman was wrong.
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