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Old 06-17-2010, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,352 posts, read 26,367,482 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
I am really not sure how it isnt a good analogy. The point of the rule is the same.
Well, the offsides rule (which applies to the defense, on offense it's called a false start), serves a different purpose. If there were no offsides in the NFL, Peyton Manning would be sucking his food through a tube. But, for the sake of argument, we can imagine a scenario where offensive players are free to stand around the endzone and QBs can attempt Hail Mary's for the entire game. The result would be a total of 10 touchdowns scored in the league for the whole season. It's called a "Hail Mary" for a reason. Teams would figure out that they'd stand a much better chance of scoring by throwing short passes and gradually working their way down the field. I wish I could convince my flag football team to go short instead of throwing long, inaccurate passes that get knocked down by the defense 98 times out of 100.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
Have you ever seen indoor soccer? In indoor soccer there is no offside rule. Some of the more higher scoring teams in indoor soccer history have been so because of the no offside.

Case in point - the mid-90s St. Louis Ambush. They had a forward named Mark Moser. He was one hell of a goal scorer but he was also a heavy smoker and just overall lazy but he won scoring titles even though he wasnt much of an athlete. He would rarely every cross into his team's defensive end. He would sit and wait for the ball to be turned over and just receive it and be either one on one with the keeper maybe two on one with a defender. He wouldnt always score but he scored a ton of goals this way. I once saw him score 7 goals in a playoff game against my KC Attack, all by the means of cherry picking.

A similar thing would happen in outdoor soccer if offside were eliminated.

...In fact, I could foresee teams signing players that are designed just for that and higher quality athletes losing their jobs for the role of cherry picker. I could also forsee less quality keepers being signed with huge legs that could place the ball as close to the opposing box as possible.
I see your point here, but an outdoor soccer field is much larger than an indoor one. Even if a goalie had a strong enough leg to kick the ball all the way down to the other end, the odds of him kicking it accurately enough, AND an offensive player having the timing and skill to get control of it, seem very very low. That's like saying because a team has Dwight Howard, who can dunk on a 16 foot goal, that they could simply throw passes from the end of the court, have him leap up for them, and throw them down. That sounds good in theory, but if it were so easy, the Orlando Magic would be playing tonight instead of the Boston Celtics. In fact, I think it would be easier to throw alleyoops to Dwight Howard from the other end of a basketball court than to kick a ball down a soccer field in hopes that someone on your team could knock it in with a head shot. That just seems highly improbable to me.

The fact that the goalie is back there would also make such a strategy futile. If teams kicked the ball long, hoping that someone could knock it in, the goalie could just run up and take it. A 6'1 goalie using his arms can always get higher than a 7' whose only allowed to use his feet, chest, and head.

And Mark Moser would have probably died from cardiac arrest in a real soccer game. Because the field is so small in indoor soccer, he probably had multiple scoring opportunities. But an outdoor soccer field is so big, he would still have to chase many of those balls down that were kicked to him. That would give the defense time to recalibrate and it would also cause him to expend a lot of energy. But...if he were fast and athletic enough to track down the ball in the open field, and still beat defenders and the goalkeeper, then I think that type of athleticism should be rewarded. What do you think?
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Old 06-17-2010, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,352 posts, read 26,367,482 times
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I think basketball is a better comparator to soccer than football. I've always wondered why NBA players don't use cherry picking as a strategy. A team of four could stop a team of five from scoring at least 40% of the time. But a team of 0 will stop a team of one from scoring absolutely 0% of the time. That's an interesting question.
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Old 06-17-2010, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
5,763 posts, read 9,766,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Well, the offsides rule (which applies to the defense, on offense it's called a false start), serves a different purpose. If there were no offsides in the NFL, Peyton Manning would be sucking his food through a tube. But, for the sake of argument, we can imagine a scenario where offensive players are free to stand around the endzone and QBs can attempt Hail Mary's for the entire game. The result would be a total of 10 touchdowns scored in the league for the whole season. It's called a "Hail Mary" for a reason. Teams would figure out that they'd stand a much better chance of scoring by throwing short passes and gradually working their way down the field. I wish I could convince my flag football team to go short instead of throwing long, inaccurate passes that get knocked down by the defense 98 times out of 100.

Maybe I should clarify, we arent talking about defense. We are talking about offense since it only applies to offense in soccer. So, to clarify, it would be like eliminating false starts from football.

They may not stand in the end zone but receivers would take advantage of it. Have you ever seen the Arena League where they dont really enforce offsides for the offense? The receivers cross the line of scrimmage before the ball is snapped and get a head start. That is one of the reasons the game is so high scoring.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I see your point here, but an outdoor soccer field is much larger than an indoor one. Even if a goalie had a strong enough leg to kick the ball all the way down to the other end, the odds of him kicking it accurately enough, AND an offensive player having the timing and skill to get control of it, seem very very low. That's like saying because a team has Dwight Howard, who can dunk on a 16 foot goal, that they could simply throw passes from the end of the court, have him leap up for them, and throw them down. That sounds good in theory, but if it were so easy, the Orlando Magic would be playing tonight instead of the Boston Celtics. In fact, I think it would be easier to throw alleyoops to Dwight Howard from the other end of a basketball court than to kick a ball down a soccer field in hopes that someone on your team could knock it in with a head shot. That just seems highly improbable to me.

The fact that the goalie is back there would also make such a strategy futile. If teams kicked the ball long, hoping that someone could knock it in, the goalie could just run up and take it. A 6'1 goalie using his arms can always get higher than a 7' whose only allowed to use his feet, chest, and head.

And Mark Moser would have probably died from cardiac arrest in a real soccer game. Because the field is so small in indoor soccer, he probably had multiple scoring opportunities. But an outdoor soccer field is so big, he would still have to chase many of those balls down that were kicked to him. That would give the defense time to recalibrate and it would also cause him to expend a lot of energy. But...if he were fast and athletic enough to track down the ball in the open field, and still beat defenders and the goalkeeper, then I think that type of athleticism should be rewarded. What do you think?

Well, there was a reason Moser was playing indoor and not outdoor. But, my point was that if it happened in indoor where losing 1 of your 5 defensive players worked, what do you think happens when a team only loses 1 of 11 players because 1 is a cherry picker. A defense of 10 can easily defend an attacking team of 11.

I've played the game without refs and offside being called. It isnt very fun and it takes the beauty and fun out of the game. Eliminating offside would take the midfield out of the game and the midfield is where some of the best action takes place. That is where the games develop and where teams gather to execute that perfect attack.

Again, offside is the 2nd most important rule behind the handball. Without offside, soccer is no longer soccer it becomes a different sport. It is much like how the NBA has stopped enforcing traveling when players and driving to the basket and we now see guys takes 4, 5, 6 steps without getting a call. That is the reason I no longer watch the NBA, it is no longer basketball, it has become something else. It's a joke.
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Old 06-17-2010, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jp03 View Post
You'd get the same thing with a solid offsides line....

No, you wouldnt. Because beyond that line, the rule no longer applies so you are eliminating the rule for a portion of the field.
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Old 06-17-2010, 11:15 AM
 
9,586 posts, read 8,918,565 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
No, you wouldnt. Because beyond that line, the rule no longer applies so you are eliminating the rule for a portion of the field.
Thus allowing a more open arena to score goals..... GASP
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Old 06-17-2010, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,352 posts, read 26,367,482 times
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Interesting perspective. Has any league ever tried eliminating the rule to see what happened? I tried looking for some videos on YouTube but could not find any.
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Old 06-17-2010, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,352 posts, read 26,367,482 times
Reputation: 11789
Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
what do you think happens when a team only loses 1 of 11 players because 1 is a cherry picker.
But wouldn't the goalie be able to check the cherry picker? The goalie can use his hands, right? If the goalie sees the long ball coming, what's stopping him from grabbing it away from the offensive player?
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Old 06-17-2010, 11:32 AM
 
34,518 posts, read 41,669,564 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jp03 View Post
What a great way to take any ounce of excitement out of a game. Wait a wing is breaking ! Off side of course. Hell, if I were the defense I'd just stand right at the other teams goal all the time. We'd have 20 players packed in a foot wide area...Its like a game of cat and mouse, just put a darned line down and if the ball crosses it first its offside , if not its fair game. No wonder soccer scores are so low, nobody ever has a chance to make a run.
Why not make it mandatory for the opposing goalie to leave the net when your team is trying to score a goal..
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Old 06-17-2010, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
5,763 posts, read 9,766,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Interesting perspective. Has any league ever tried eliminating the rule to see what happened? I tried looking for some videos on YouTube but could not find any.

All leagues play by the same rules which are set by FIFA. If you dont, you lose your affiliation with FIFA and that is not something you want as a soccer league. FIFA is more powerful than many countries governments.
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Old 06-17-2010, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Buffalo, NY
1,620 posts, read 2,401,673 times
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i still dont get it... how can you go offsides without the line being there. I got a friend from Iran and she's a big fan of soccer and even she don't understand that rule.
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