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Old 06-19-2010, 03:28 PM
 
Location: TX
740 posts, read 1,844,112 times
Reputation: 295

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Quote:
Originally Posted by X-Greensboro Resident View Post
None of this matters if the US wins against Algeria... WIN AND IN BABY!!!
Keyword.

The win is theirs...if Team USA steps up to take it. Don't be a Team Ghana.
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Old 06-19-2010, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis
3,675 posts, read 7,855,349 times
Reputation: 2333
Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix_talons View Post
Keyword.

The win is theirs...if Team USA steps up to take it. Don't be a Team Ghana.
AMEN brother!!
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Old 06-19-2010, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Fort Smith, Arkansas
1,466 posts, read 3,805,715 times
Reputation: 1051
ESPN has reported that this ref received a poor rating for his game and will probably not be called on for any more WC games. Press conference on Monday.

I am happy that they are calling him out, but it doesn't really do much for the Yanks.
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Old 06-19-2010, 07:16 PM
 
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
580 posts, read 863,651 times
Reputation: 892
All right, it was a bad call; guess what, it happens. After all in the past World Cups other teams were robbed in a much more brutal way (and final, i.e.: caused elimination) and many comments from US posters on ESPN/Soccernet were dismissive at best.
Now, to the guy who said "the ref said no comment", I have news for you: the ref can NOT make a comment until FIFA does. And FIFA will officially address that on Monday. So the ref has no choice on that.

A few points.

THE CALL
Yes, it looked a bad game and you can belive how pixxed off I was because that costed me 500 bucks that I had on the USA, so I am with you on that. Sometimes refs can't see clearly what's going on in the box and they call a foul in favor of the defense when all they see is pushing and shoving. It always goes in the defense's favor. I have to assume (but I don't know) that this is what happened, because I haven't seen any US foul and actually it seems that the only "half-foul" was being committed by a Slovenian player on Bradley. I said "half-foul" because it was not a "penalty kick" foul.

The lineman apparently did not move his flag, so can't be offside. Honestly I was puzzled and probably yelled at the TV for like 4 minutes.

THE GAME

Bad call aside, the USA team needs to be less condiscendent when they play teams they don't fear; sorry, but I have to say it, they have this tendency.
The USA played England with some fear (initially) and were very focused. Against Slovenia they must have thought it would have been easy and they showed up totally relaxed and almost with superior attitude.
The fact most of people in the US have no clue where Slovenia is doesn't mean the team sucks. Anyway, the worst of it is that the USA are on paper a better team than Slovenia, but when you go down 2-0, you must be happy with a draw.

The team showed a good attitude in not giving up, we must give it that. However they need to have the same attitude from the first minute against Algeria, because for those who don't know, Algeria looked better than Slovenia and were totally unlucky when they lost 1-0 the first game. Then Algerai forced England to draw scoreless. The Algerians are much better than the Slovenian technically and can play quality football at midfield; Slovenian is mostly a defensive team with a few sudeden counterattacks here and there.

I believe the USA will win this game if they realize that it might not be an easy one and they need to play at full speed for 90 minutes. We need to keep away from defensive mistakes and well, do what we can offensively as we don't have what one would call an offensive team. Altidore is the only pure striker, as a matter of fact.

SCENARIO

At least we own our destiny (I keep saying we, because I am both an Italian citizen and an American citizen and live in the USA). The USA qualifies if:

A- USA defeats Algeria. No question here, we are in. We can't determine the position (1st or 2nd) as it will depend on the other result between England and Slovenia.

B- USA ties and ENGLAND also ties with any result but without scoring more than 1 goal more than the USA. Meaning: if we draw 0-0, we are still in if Slovenia-England ends 1-1; if we tie 1-1, we are in if England ties 2-2 and so on. Watch it: if both USA and England tie and England ties scoring exactly 2 goals more than us, (i.e.: USA 1-1, England 3-3) FIFA will have to DRAW between England and USA. Yep, like a lottery, 50% of chances.

C- Of course we are also in if we tie and England loses their game.

The reason for the chaotic situation in case of a tie is that USA and England have the same points AND the same goal differential. If they both tie obviously goal diff. does not change. However the USA leads in the next tie-breaker which is number of goals scored: we scored 3, they scored 1. That's the reason fo everything mentioned in scenario B.
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Old 06-20-2010, 06:58 AM
 
9,585 posts, read 8,910,040 times
Reputation: 5814
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoItaly View Post
All right, it was a bad call; guess what, it happens. After all in the past World Cups other teams were robbed in a much more brutal way (and final, i.e.: caused elimination) and many comments from US posters on ESPN/Soccernet were dismissive at best.
Now, to the guy who said "the ref said no comment", I have news for you: the ref can NOT make a comment until FIFA does. And FIFA will officially address that on Monday. So the ref has no choice on that.

A few points.

THE CALL
Yes, it looked a bad game and you can belive how pixxed off I was because that costed me 500 bucks that I had on the USA, so I am with you on that. Sometimes refs can't see clearly what's going on in the box and they call a foul in favor of the defense when all they see is pushing and shoving. It always goes in the defense's favor. I have to assume (but I don't know) that this is what happened, because I haven't seen any US foul and actually it seems that the only "half-foul" was being committed by a Slovenian player on Bradley. I said "half-foul" because it was not a "penalty kick" foul.

The lineman apparently did not move his flag, so can't be offside. Honestly I was puzzled and probably yelled at the TV for like 4 minutes.

THE GAME

Bad call aside, the USA team needs to be less condiscendent when they play teams they don't fear; sorry, but I have to say it, they have this tendency.
The USA played England with some fear (initially) and were very focused. Against Slovenia they must have thought it would have been easy and they showed up totally relaxed and almost with superior attitude.
The fact most of people in the US have no clue where Slovenia is doesn't mean the team sucks. Anyway, the worst of it is that the USA are on paper a better team than Slovenia, but when you go down 2-0, you must be happy with a draw.

The team showed a good attitude in not giving up, we must give it that. However they need to have the same attitude from the first minute against Algeria, because for those who don't know, Algeria looked better than Slovenia and were totally unlucky when they lost 1-0 the first game. Then Algerai forced England to draw scoreless. The Algerians are much better than the Slovenian technically and can play quality football at midfield; Slovenian is mostly a defensive team with a few sudeden counterattacks here and there.

I believe the USA will win this game if they realize that it might not be an easy one and they need to play at full speed for 90 minutes. We need to keep away from defensive mistakes and well, do what we can offensively as we don't have what one would call an offensive team. Altidore is the only pure striker, as a matter of fact.

SCENARIO

At least we own our destiny (I keep saying we, because I am both an Italian citizen and an American citizen and live in the USA). The USA qualifies if:

A- USA defeats Algeria. No question here, we are in. We can't determine the position (1st or 2nd) as it will depend on the other result between England and Slovenia.

B- USA ties and ENGLAND also ties with any result but without scoring more than 1 goal more than the USA. Meaning: if we draw 0-0, we are still in if Slovenia-England ends 1-1; if we tie 1-1, we are in if England ties 2-2 and so on. Watch it: if both USA and England tie and England ties scoring exactly 2 goals more than us, (i.e.: USA 1-1, England 3-3) FIFA will have to DRAW between England and USA. Yep, like a lottery, 50% of chances.

C- Of course we are also in if we tie and England loses their game.

The reason for the chaotic situation in case of a tie is that USA and England have the same points AND the same goal differential. If they both tie obviously goal diff. does not change. However the USA leads in the next tie-breaker which is number of goals scored: we scored 3, they scored 1. That's the reason fo everything mentioned in scenario B.

Thanks for the tie explanation... pretty simple really but clarification is always good. A lottery huh..well that is nutty..hope it doesn't come to that.
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Old 06-20-2010, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in Kentucky
3,790 posts, read 7,802,747 times
Reputation: 2416
I take back what I said.

A lottery is NOT how sports should be decided. Ties are a @#$%ing joke!!!
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Old 06-20-2010, 10:06 AM
 
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
580 posts, read 863,651 times
Reputation: 892
Kentucky, you have to look at it with open mind. Think of today's game Italy-New Zealand. New Zealand made history with that tie, they celebrated like thw won the World Cup, it's huge. Can you imagine if no tie would be allowed and they would have gone to penalty kicks and the Kiwis woud have lost? They would have played the best game they everplayed and all for nothing, to lose at PK's.

No, I think ties are fine in a sport like soccer and honestly the odds of getting to the lottery are so low that it's okay to risk that (I don't remember a WC game decided by a lottery draw at least not from 1970 on.
Now, beyond the group stage, it will be elimination games, meaning one team will have go home through overtime and eventually penalty kicks.
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Old 06-20-2010, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Fishers, IN
6,495 posts, read 10,820,815 times
Reputation: 4061
Quote:
Originally Posted by kentuckydad95 View Post
Ties are a @#$%ing joke!!!
You get a point for a tie, so ties do matter. Why is that so hard to understand?
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Old 06-20-2010, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in Kentucky
3,790 posts, read 7,802,747 times
Reputation: 2416
Can you imagine if no tie would be allowed and they would have gone to penalty kicks and the Kiwis woud have lost? They would have played the best game they everplayed and all for nothing, to lose at PK's. It would have meant the better team won.

IF it comes down to a lottery, how is that fair? How would that prove the true better team? A tie means that you played just well enough not to lose. The fans are cheated out of seeing a true winner. I don't care how many points a tie gains.

Let me ask you this; if it were the final match of the WC, would they let it end in a tie? BINGO!!!
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Old 06-20-2010, 11:51 AM
 
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
580 posts, read 863,651 times
Reputation: 892
Kentucky, you totally miss the point. The final of the WC (or any other game from round 2) are direct elimination because you have those teams on the field and they can play overtime and penalty kicks. In a group stage, the teams ending tie with points and goals might not be on the same field, so it would take an extra game to settle that (and there is no room in the schedule).

And no, the team who wins at PK's is not necessarily the better team.

Now, I agree that the lottery can't say who's the better team, but football can have only so many tie-breakers: points, direct match result, goal differential and finally number of goal scored. The lottery is cruel, but the only alternative would be to get those teams back on the field for an extra game, but can't be done with the tight schedule of a World Cup.
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