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Old 06-29-2010, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
5,763 posts, read 9,752,866 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyDizzle23 View Post
Revolution? That's way too strong. Our biggest, best athletes DON'T play the sport. Period. They play football and basketball. If you lived in a cave all your life and you just watched sports for the first time, it's obvious the countries with the bigger, stronger, faster athletes are better. Our best soccer player is Tim Howard and, he's the biggest athlete on the team. Until guys like Lebron, Kobe, Adrian Peterson, Reggie Bush, etc play soccer at a young age, it won't be as popular as the big three (NFL, NBA, MLB).

American bandwagonism? It's not much different than the Olympics every four years. We latch on to an athlete or a story that is compelling, ride it out until it's over, then we go back to our regular lives. Of course, you get some new fans out of it, but people aren't following track and field or gymnastics or figure skating on a regular basis. Soccer has a bit of an advantage because it's a team sport and we have a pro league here. But the average person knows one or two names in the MLS. And there is a chance Landon Donovan could go to on of the European soccer leagues. There goes our star.

Plus, it's a tough sport to enjoy if you didn't grow up with it. There's little scoring, guys flop (a lot), and they won't use technology to get obvious bad calls correct (sounds a little like baseball - another sport that isn't highly popular).

You put way too much value into size. Being the best doesnt have much to do with size unless you play basketball or football where size is kind of a skill set.

The best soccer player in the world is barely 5'7". Soccer is all about fitness, skill, and speed and size can actually be a detriment. Most football, baseball, or basketball players wouldnt last 15 minutes on a soccer field.

However, I do agree with your point that the best athletes dont grow up playing soccer. But, that is slowly changing.

Also, baseball is extremely popular. It is the 2nd most popular sport in the country.
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:25 AM
 
Location: NYC & NJ
747 posts, read 2,283,038 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyDizzle23 View Post
Revolution? That's way too strong. Our biggest, best athletes DON'T play the sport. Period. They play football and basketball. If you lived in a cave all your life and you just watched sports for the first time, it's obvious the countries with the bigger, stronger, faster athletes are better.
That isn't necessarily true. None of Brazil, Argentina, Germany, etc. have excelled simply because they have the biggest, strongest athletes. Look at Kaka, Messi, Ozil, etc. Being a playmaker, the guy who coordinates and creates the chances that lead to goals, requires precision and vision. Much like being a quarterback. Another critical position that isn't simply about being bigger, stronger, faster.
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Vermont
10,311 posts, read 11,237,378 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
Also, baseball is extremely popular. It is the 2nd most popular sport in the country.
What would you say the most popular sport is?
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Old 06-29-2010, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
5,763 posts, read 9,752,866 times
Reputation: 2809
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmccullough View Post
What would you say the most popular sport is?

What would I say? I dont understand how anyone in this country could ask that question.

The undisputed most popular sport in the US is American Football.
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Old 06-29-2010, 06:00 PM
 
1,261 posts, read 1,771,940 times
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Well we don't know if he is American or not but yea it's American football by a mile.

Number 2? Honestly it's toss up between baseball and basketball to me. World Series gets better ratings than NBA but NBA seems to edge out MLB in knoledge of personalities.

Like IMHO there has been no real big face of MLB that casual people can name over the last decade last one I could suggest is barry bonds, compare that with Yao Ming, Kobe, Lebron James, Allen Iverson, etc.

MLB needs to do better pimping of it's stars but it can't do any worse than the NHL (they have so many problems).

MLS is in a tough spot, I remember Freddy Adu but that's cause I grew up in suburban Washington. As for Beckham; average non soccer fan thinks Beckham=rich European with posh lifestyle (if recongnized at all), good Vanity Fair fodder but no one cared about him as an athlete outside of soccer circles.

But yea, just like the broadcast licence fee, pro-reg would't work. Institutes are interesting but well to do US parents would be a tough sell on the concept. To them it's a huge gamble vs. college.
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Old 06-29-2010, 06:45 PM
 
Location: Extreme Southeast Philly, NJ
219 posts, read 220,714 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
Seattle, Toronto, and Philadelphia are all on the bottom half of the league and while Seattle made the playoffs last year, none of those teams have fared well so far but yet there fans are still there every game going crazy.

Portland and Vancouver come in next season and it will likely be the same thing.
Two things:

I understand supporting a team because you like them. I get being a fan of a team because of proximity. But if the team continues to struggle and isn't doing well after a few years, why would you continue to go? Why would you continue to scream and yell and go crazy at the stadium if they lose often? You are wasting your money and, obviously, the team's management is wasting money not fielding a viable team. The point is to contend, right?

Second, I'm not a huge geography buff, but Portland, Seattle, AND Vancouver fielding professional soccer teams? Three teams within shouting distance of each other? Are there (1) that many soccer fans, and (2) that many professional soccer players? (tongue in cheek kinda on the soccer fans part, don't yell at me.) On second thought, maybe it isn't too different from Philly, D.C. and Maryland having pro football teams... But maybe it is...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
You put way too much value into size. Being the best doesnt have much to do with size unless you play basketball or football where size is kind of a skill set.

The best soccer player in the world is barely 5'7". Soccer is all about fitness, skill, and speed and size can actually be a detriment. Most football, baseball, or basketball players wouldnt last 15 minutes on a soccer field.

Also, baseball is extremely popular. It is the 2nd most popular sport in the country.
Size matters. Period. Look at the best players in our country. Let's go sport by sport. I'm not bothering to look up actual heights, I'm going off the top of my head. But I'm close...

Any basketball player - nearly all are over 6', most are under 7', and the best are somewhere in the middle.

Football - Just about all quarterbacks are over 6'. Peyton Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Tom Brady, Donovan McNabb... The top receivers in the game today: Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Randy Moss and T.O. in the past decade all 6'4''+. Running Back: Adrian Peterson 6'1' 220lbs.

Baseball - New York Yankees pitching staff: all but 1 or 2 are under 6' and under 200lbs their best, CC Sabathia is 6'7'' 290; Yankees starting infield: 6'3'', 6'3'', 6'3'', 6'0''. Look at the new kid Stephen Strasburg: 6'4'' 220 (Okay I looked those up...)

Golf - Tiger Woods, Phil Mickelson... bigger stronger guys

Tennis - Roger Federer, bigger guy. Women's #1 Serena Williams (that ain't fat, it's muscle.)

I did look up the U.S. soccer team, and I saw a lot of guys under 6'0''. Our best player not a goalie is 5'8''. (Is Donovan our best player? Is it arguable? I don't know. Is it Dempsey? Don't hold me to that particular argument...)

Of course you can give me exceptions like Messi (I guess that's who you're referring to). I can give you exceptions in every sport. But the difference between 5'8'' guys in Argentina and Brazil that are superior and gifted athletically in soccer is that THAT'S ALL THEY HAVE GROWING UP! They kick soccer balls on the way to school in other countries. They don't have football. No one else has football (except Canada). We have tons of options here. There are plenty of sports to make millions of dollars in. Plus, those other countries have something else we don't have: pride in playing for their country. Their best athletes care more about repping their country. That's what they dream about growing up. They only play soccer and want the chance to play in the World Cup and in the best leagues in Europe. Not our best athletes. We only cared about our Olympic basketball team when the rest of the world started catching up to us in talent. The league title means more to our guys than a gold medal. We wanna make that money. Football has 32 teams and 55 players on each team. There are 100 something division 1 college football teams and many of them are on television regularly. A good athlete has a chance to get exposure and make the NFL. In basketball, you can go to the pros after bull-ishing a year in college. It's easy. It's fast. It's American. It's what our kids see on tv.

And please don't argue that basketball and football players wouldn't last 5 minutes on the soccer field. That's not my argument. I'm not saying take D Wade off the basketball court today and put him on the soccer pitch tomorrow and watch him excel. Of course not. I'm saying take D Wade and all those other players I referenced in their childhood, give them a soccer ball and nothing else, and our team would be SIGNIFICANTLY better today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Costanza View Post
None of Brazil, Argentina, Germany, etc. have excelled simply because they have the biggest, strongest athletes. Look at Kaka, Messi, Ozil, etc. Being a playmaker, the guy who coordinates and creates the chances that lead to goals, requires precision and vision. Much like being a quarterback.
But it helps. I bet the winning team will average a height significantly bigger than the U.S.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Costanza View Post
Much like being a quarterback. Another critical position that isn't simply about being bigger, stronger, faster.
But it helps... You can take all of the great attributes you need to excel as a quarterback in the NFL, put them on a 5'9'' guy, and a 6'5'' guy. I'll give you the first pick. Who ya got?

Look, soccer is a good sport. And it's more popular today than it was 50 years ago. It's growing. I get it. But it's never gonna be in the top 5. Football (no discussion), basketball, baseball (whatever order), hockey, nascar, then soccer, mma... Every 4 years soccer gets hype because we can root for our country. It's easy. It's kinda fun. But it wears off after we're out of it until 4 years later. Unless we win the damn thing, then maybe it'll jump long-term... But that's what was supposed to happen with women's soccer after they won it all, but their league folded in a year or so. And rumor is Manchester United wants to buy or rent Landon Donovan? There goes our most recognizable player...
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:27 PM
 
Location: South Philly
1,943 posts, read 6,193,660 times
Reputation: 648
Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
What would I say? I dont understand how anyone in this country could ask that question.

The undisputed most popular sport in the US is American Football.


I don't know about other cities but in this one the Eagles sell ~67,000 tickets 8 times per year.

The Phillies sell ~40,000 tickets 80 times per year.

I was never good at math but this one seems like a no-brainer to me.

There's a difference between popularity and fanaticism. Just because football fans are batcrap crazy doesn't mean that the sport has broader appeal.

. . . and basketball? Does anyone still care about basketball? Basketball seems like its heyday was in the 80's. Everyone gets into March Madness but, like the world cup, that has a specific draw that's a little bigger than basketball itself - Local and college loyalties, the excitement of a tournament , etc.
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Old 06-30-2010, 02:54 AM
 
Location: Liberal Coast
4,277 posts, read 5,173,064 times
Reputation: 3889
Quote:
Originally Posted by waltlantz View Post
Well we don't know if he is American or not but yea it's American football by a mile.

Number 2? Honestly it's toss up between baseball and basketball to me. World Series gets better ratings than NBA but NBA seems to edge out MLB in knoledge of personalities.

Like IMHO there has been no real big face of MLB that casual people can name over the last decade last one I could suggest is barry bonds, compare that with Yao Ming, Kobe, Lebron James, Allen Iverson, etc.

MLB needs to do better pimping of it's stars but it can't do any worse than the NHL (they have so many problems).

MLS is in a tough spot, I remember Freddy Adu but that's cause I grew up in suburban Washington. As for Beckham; average non soccer fan thinks Beckham=rich European with posh lifestyle (if recongnized at all), good Vanity Fair fodder but no one cared about him as an athlete outside of soccer circles.

But yea, just like the broadcast licence fee, pro-reg would't work. Institutes are interesting but well to do US parents would be a tough sell on the concept. To them it's a huge gamble vs. college.
MLB does not need to pimp it's stars. Seriously, baseball is not that into individual players. It is way more about the team.
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Old 06-30-2010, 02:57 AM
 
Location: Liberal Coast
4,277 posts, read 5,173,064 times
Reputation: 3889
Quote:
Originally Posted by solibs View Post


I don't know about other cities but in this one the Eagles sell ~67,000 tickets 8 times per year.

The Phillies sell ~40,000 tickets 80 times per year.

I was never good at math but this one seems like a no-brainer to me.

There's a difference between popularity and fanaticism. Just because football fans are batcrap crazy doesn't mean that the sport has broader appeal.

. . . and basketball? Does anyone still care about basketball? Basketball seems like its heyday was in the 80's. Everyone gets into March Madness but, like the world cup, that has a specific draw that's a little bigger than basketball itself - Local and college loyalties, the excitement of a tournament , etc.
I believe the main thing they base popularity off of is TV viewing. In reality, baseball is not a sport to be watched on TV at all. Some sports are and some just aren't. Where I grew up out here in the late 90's and early 2000's, there was way more conversation about baseball than American football. Baseball is huge out here, and the city I grew up in in particular.
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Old 06-30-2010, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Extreme Southeast Philly, NJ
219 posts, read 220,714 times
Reputation: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by solibs View Post


I don't know about other cities but in this one the Eagles sell ~67,000 tickets 8 times per year.

The Phillies sell ~40,000 tickets 80 times per year.

I was never good at math but this one seems like a no-brainer to me.

There's a difference between popularity and fanaticism. Just because football fans are batcrap crazy doesn't mean that the sport has broader appeal.
That's kinda an apples to oranges comparison. 81 vs 8 games? You can't draw many conclusions from what you're referencing. But I'll tell you this...

The NFL is the most popular sport by far and it laps everything else. Television ratings are significantly different. People don't watch much baseball on tv. It's in the summer. Games are long. 162 games per year means there's little urgency on each game. Even the sport's biggest rivalry (Yanks/Sox) is boring in April and May. The World Series ratings have dropped over the last 40 years. Ratings for younger people (18-34) are really low. Sunday Night Baseball on ESPN (it's suppose to showcase the better, more interesting teams) get's 1's and 2's for ratings. Older people can watch it and enjoy it because the game is nostalgic to begin with (really holds on to the past). They like it because they're more likely retired or working less so they can watch tv more or go to the games more. Plus, there's just more older people (baby boomers). But World Series games end at 1 in the morning. Bad. The season ends in November. Bad. You can't compete against the NFL.

The NFL with 16 games means every game matters. You lose 3 or 4 in a row you are all but done. There's a clock. Games are typically 3 long. They won't go 4 hours and end after midnight. And if you want to compare apples to oranges, the Super Bowl is the biggest television sporting event in this country. Ratings are up near 30. I don't think a 7 game World Series is beating that combined unless it's Yankees / Dodgers or Yankees / Mets.

TV Sports Ratings - We're Watching Who's Watching

TV ratings for football light up the scoreboard | million, viewers, football - Entertainment - The Orange County Register

Quote:
Originally Posted by solibs View Post
. . . and basketball? Does anyone still care about basketball? Basketball seems like its heyday was in the 80's. Everyone gets into March Madness but, like the world cup, that has a specific draw that's a little bigger than basketball itself - Local and college loyalties, the excitement of a tournament , etc.
You live in south philly and the sixers have been bad for a while, so I can understand you asking if anyone cares about basketball... Lakers / Celtics did great on tv this past month. People care.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psr13 View Post
MLB does not need to pimp it's stars. Seriously, baseball is not that into individual players. It is way more about the team.
Yes they do. They don't have any superstars. There's little casual fan interest. In a sport where you don't wear helmets, most of the players, even some of the "star players" are virtually unrecognizable by the average fan. People know Peyton Manning, Reggie Bush, etc. They're on commercials. They're marketed by the league. Even if they don't know the name, they know they're a football player in the NFL. They need to put the players out there to be seen. We need to get to know the personalities to have something to be interested in. Brett Favre (like him or not) is on tv making fun of himself flip-flopping about retiring. What a great personality. Maybe baseball players just don't have enough personality. There are a few guys - Derek Jeter really stands out, Manny Ramirez is a fascinating character - but we don't get a chance to know anyone else. Hockey has the same problem. The NBA and NFL get it.

You know who's popular in baseball? The managers. Guys like Pinella and Torre and LaRussa are more popular that the players. Ozzie Guillen is really interesting. He promotes himself. MLB needs more Ozzie Guillen and Manny being Manny.

Last edited by RyDizzle23; 06-30-2010 at 10:46 AM..
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