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Old 06-24-2010, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Dallas, Texas
1,807 posts, read 2,174,739 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
The problem with the college system is that it holds real talent and player development back. Here is what happens ... play High School, get a college scholarship, play well in the college game, get signed as a bench-warmer for an MLS team after graduating. They are starting their professional careers aged around 21-24 and very few MLS teams have them as first team starters. Contrast that with players in Europe signing for pro youth clubs in very early teens developing and signing for league teams by late teens and potentially earning serious money and game time well before 20 and you see the issue.

What I don't like about the franchise system is that it restricts competition in favor of profitability. The New York area should have two or three MLS teams, not one. So should LA or Chicago. That would inject a bit of "dig" into the game. In addition, they need promotion/relegation so that good teams elsewhere can get into the MLS on merit not franchise.
This is a terrible, terrible idea for MLS. Why would any potential owner spend 50 mil on a team only to have it relegated? Promotion/relegation won't happen in America, period. To survive in the American market, MLS has to operate in the American mold - it has done so to this point, and is doing pretty well for itself.
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Old 06-24-2010, 01:58 PM
 
14,253 posts, read 15,411,414 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fillmont View Post
This is a terrible, terrible idea for MLS. Why would any potential owner spend 50 mil on a team only to have it relegated? Promotion/relegation won't happen in America, period. To survive in the American market, MLS has to operate in the American mold - it has done so to this point, and is doing pretty well for itself.
Thus the MLS becomes a self perpetuating group of rich guys owning franchises that will not go anywhere in terms of a quality league because the motivation is not there.

This is my opinion.
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Dallas, Texas
1,807 posts, read 2,174,739 times
Reputation: 970
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
Thus the MLS becomes a self perpetuating group of rich guys owning franchises that will not go anywhere in terms of a quality league because the motivation is not there.

This is my opinion.
It may be your opinion, but there is no MLS with promotion/relegation, so this is how it is.

Now, you could maybe argue that removing the salary cap would allow for more quality players, but the counterpoint would be that you'd end up with an EPL or MLB setup, where maybe 4 or 5 teams have any real chance of winning. I personally would hate that.

And there is motivation - to win so that you sell more merchandise/get more butts in the seat. It is the same motivation that the other major leagues use, and they are all doing pretty ok for themselves, too.
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:06 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
5,763 posts, read 9,780,832 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
The problem with the college system is that it holds real talent and player development back. Here is what happens ... play High School, get a college scholarship, play well in the college game, get signed as a bench-warmer for an MLS team after graduating. They are starting their professional careers aged around 21-24 and very few MLS teams have them as first team starters. Contrast that with players in Europe signing for pro youth clubs in very early teens developing and signing for league teams by late teens and potentially earning serious money and game time well before 20 and you see the issue.
This is starting to change but it cannot change overnight. This just isnt soccer but the way our country is setup. We have an education system that goes like this: elementary > MS > HS > College/Trade School > Real World

While other countries have systems where kids get to move onto to specialize in their trade after middle school.

MLS teams now have academy teams where they are training kids starting at age 13 and sometimes younger. As this system grows, the quality of the young talent that comes into the MLS will and eventually the MLS Superdraft will go away and players will just sign with whatever team they want. But, this cannot happen overnight, it isnt part of our culture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
What I don't like about the franchise system is that it restricts competition in favor of profitability. The New York area should have two or three MLS teams, not one. So should LA or Chicago. That would inject a bit of "dig" into the game. In addition, they need promotion/relegation so that good teams elsewhere can get into the MLS on merit not franchise.
NY, Chicago, and LA do not have more teams because there are no ownership groups trying to get teams. On top of that, they teams they do have are not among the most highly supported in the league except for the Galaxy. If any city should get more teams it should be Seattle and Toronto.

New York barely supports the Red Bulls, why should they have another team? Up until this season, NY has consistently been in the bottom half of the league in attendance and they dont even get a whiff from the NY media.

Chicago Fire get a fair amount of support but they still do not consistently sell out.

LA has two teams but Chivas doesnt get much support either even with the large Mexican population in So Cal.

The franchise system has nothing to do with the MLS success or failure. It is how sports is setup in this country and it works fine for the other leagues.

As much as I would like pro/reg, it will never happen in the US. It just can't. The business of sports and the fans in this country do not make it feasible.

Owners would never allow their team to play in a league where they would drop down to a lower level. The US sports fans would view a lower level as minor league and support would drop big time. Seattle is drawing 30K plus. If they dropped down to division 2, that number would be cut in half, if not more.
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
5,763 posts, read 9,780,832 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
Thus the MLS becomes a self perpetuating group of rich guys owning franchises that will not go anywhere in terms of a quality league because the motivation is not there.

This is my opinion.
Then how has the NFL, MLB, and NBA flourished without pro/reg?

The quality of play has increased every single season without it. The quality of play will continue to increase.

We live in a country that consist mainly of fair weather fans. The motivation to increase quality is more profit or profit at all. That is all those rich guys need.
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Dallas, Texas
1,807 posts, read 2,174,739 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
As much as I would like pro/reg, it will never happen in the US. It just can't. The business of sports and the fans in this country do not make it feasible.

Owners would never allow their team to play in a league where they would drop down to a lower level. The US sports fans would view a lower level as minor league and support would drop big time. Seattle is drawing 30K plus. If they dropped down to division 2, that number would be cut in half, if not more.
Pro/reg would also put a kibosh on construction on all these nice soccer specific stadiums we're enjoying so much. If a team is in danger of being relegating, no one would put up the cash to get a stadium built. Pro/reg just won't ever work in America. The ship has sailed!
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:23 PM
 
14,253 posts, read 15,411,414 times
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Sorry guys ... just because the other sports have a system does not mean that soccer has to copy them. You can argue that it works for them, I can argue that the other system works really well elsewhere. To make something happen in a market that is not very receptive you need to try to do things differently. That is my view.

Now, talking about the college system, let me use a real life example. Mo Edu plays for Glasgow Rangers and the USA in midfield. Now this kid is good, very good. But he didn't make his MLS debut until he was 21 and before that he was playing college.

Now contrast with John Fleck who is 5 years younger than Edu and also a midfielder at Rangers. Been with the club since he was a teenager. Promoted to the 1st team squad when he was 16. Debut at 16. Selected run-outs and substitute appearances as part of his development. Playing and learning from seasoned professionals since he was 16.

How much better would Edu be if he had that extra 5 years playing at the top level?
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Dallas, Texas
1,807 posts, read 2,174,739 times
Reputation: 970
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
Sorry guys ... just because the other sports have a system does not mean that soccer has to copy them. You can argue that it works for them, I can argue that the other system works really well elsewhere. To make something happen in a market that is not very receptive you need to try to do things differently. That is my view.
We aren't arguing that MLS had to copy the franchise model of other major American sports just because. We are stating that without this franchise model, no MLS would exist. If the MLS started with a pro/reg stance, there would be literally no corporate backing, no one buying or starting a team. There would be no MLS. It will not work in the US, period. You may bemoan this fact as a great shame to the US game, and that is fine. But pro/reg means no MLS, at all.

In short: this is America, not Europe, not South America, not anywhere else. To make soccer work here, pro/reg is not the way to go.
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
5,763 posts, read 9,780,832 times
Reputation: 2809
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
Sorry guys ... just because the other sports have a system does not mean that soccer has to copy them. You can argue that it works for them, I can argue that the other system works really well elsewhere. To make something happen in a market that is not very receptive you need to try to do things differently. That is my view.

Now, talking about the college system, let me use a real life example. Mo Edu plays for Glasgow Rangers and the USA in midfield. Now this kid is good, very good. But he didn't make his MLS debut until he was 21 and before that he was playing college.

Now contrast with John Fleck who is 5 years younger than Edu and also a midfielder at Rangers. Been with the club since he was a teenager. Promoted to the 1st team squad when he was 16. Debut at 16. Selected run-outs and substitute appearances as part of his development. Playing and learning from seasoned professionals since he was 16.

How much better would Edu be if he had that extra 5 years playing at the top level?

I'm not arguing that having kids playing pro at a younger age would not be good for the league. Of course it would. What I said before is that teams are moving that direction but it cant happen overnight. I think all MLS teams or close to all have academy teams starting at 13 years old. As these teams develop we will start to see younger and better talent enter MLS. But, this is going to take time.

As far as pro/reg is concerned, it just cannot happen in the US. The business landscape in this country will not allow it to happen. It just isnt feasible from a business perspective. Would it be good for the league from a competition perspective? Probably. However, it just cannot happen here. Any team that got regulated would go broke quickly and eventually fold. Teams that got promoted would not have the budget, facilities or anything else to compete at the top level.
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Dallas, Texas
1,807 posts, read 2,174,739 times
Reputation: 970
Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
I'm not arguing that having kids playing pro at a younger age would not be good for the league. Of course it would. What I said before is that teams are moving that direction but it cant happen overnight. I think all MLS teams or close to all have academy teams starting at 13 years old. As these teams develop we will start to see younger and better talent enter MLS. But, this is going to take time.

As far as pro/reg is concerned, it just cannot happen in the US. The business landscape in this country will not allow it to happen. It just isnt feasible from a business perspective. Would it be good for the league from a competition perspective? Probably. However, it just cannot happen here. Any team that got regulated would go broke quickly and eventually fold. Teams that got promoted would not have the budget, facilities or anything else to compete at the top level.
That, and the average American, the audience that MLS is hoping to turn to soccer fans, won't know or care for pro/reg. They'd riot if their team got shunted to some minor league.
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