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Old 12-13-2010, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
5,763 posts, read 9,752,098 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew sullivan View Post
People generally like athletes for their macho, hard-working, honest approach. Soccer players almost universally do not have these qualities.
Soccer players dont have these qualities but 300 pound lineman do?

Soccer players as a whole are in far better physical shape than football and baseball players. The average soccer player runs 8 miles per game while a football player only plays an average of 4 minutes and 30 seconds of actual football in a game. That is only 72 minutes of actual football in an entire season.

When I played back in high school and early college, the football coaches would use a threat to send the football players to our practice when they were acting up because our practice was far harder. We did more physical conditioning in the first 30 minutes of our practice than they would do in an entire week.

I dont want to turn this into a soccer vs. football thread but wanted to make the point that your accusation is ridiculous.

Dont even get me started on honesty. Do you watch the news?
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Old 12-13-2010, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
5,763 posts, read 9,752,098 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
Because it's slow moving and boring.
Whereas football and baseball are fast moving and exciting?
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Old 12-13-2010, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
5,763 posts, read 9,752,098 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
The answer is pretty simple. Americans have their sports that they like, and really don't give a rip about soccer one way or another. If Americans found soccer to be all that interesting they would be watching it in droves. But they don't because they have a lot of sports that they like already.

Americans do care about soccer. There is a very successful professional league that is growing while others are considering contraction due to slagging ticket sales. MLS is the only professional sports league in the US that has not had a decrease in season ticket sales over the last 2 seasons, they have actually had a strong increase during a recession. On top of that, they had 1 team joint last season, 2 join this season, and another join next season that are paying 40 million just to join the league on top of building their own stadiums and paying all the other expenses related to a major sports team. Kind of odd for something that people dont care about?

There seems to be this opinion that just because soccer hasnt become as big as football and baseball that it isnt successful. Soccer has been growing steadily in this country for the last 40 years and that is the way it should be. Fads become popular quickly and then fade away; things of true value grow slowly and steadily.
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Old 12-13-2010, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Tejas
7,551 posts, read 16,397,409 times
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yes RjRobb2!!!!
Didnt you notice that American Football is a super fast moving sport ? I mean between teh 30 seconds of play every six minutes that is, oh wait ... nvm. :S

I never did get the arguement that Soccer is slow vs any american sport. If it had a break every 30 seconds for 4 minutes like the NFL and stuff then I would certainly agree with taht statement but for the best part Soccer is a free flowing sport so it makes no sense. I feel taht people who say these things never watched a game in their life even if they will never admit it!

I also agree with you on the fittness part too robb.
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Old 12-13-2010, 03:08 PM
 
28,905 posts, read 46,762,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
Americans do care about soccer. There is a very successful professional league that is growing while others are considering contraction due to slagging ticket sales. MLS is the only professional sports league in the US that has not had a decrease in season ticket sales over the last 2 seasons, they have actually had a strong increase during a recession. On top of that, they had 1 team joint last season, 2 join this season, and another join next season that are paying 40 million just to join the league on top of building their own stadiums and paying all the other expenses related to a major sports team. Kind of odd for something that people dont care about?

There seems to be this opinion that just because soccer hasnt become as big as football and baseball that it isnt successful. Soccer has been growing steadily in this country for the last 40 years and that is the way it should be. Fads become popular quickly and then fade away; things of true value grow slowly and steadily.
Seriously? Are you saying that, in comparison to football (College and Pro), baseball, basketball, or even hockey, that soccer is anywhere close? As I said before, I don't hate soccer. But soccer fans are really grasping at straws if they think MLS is anywhere close to capturing the American imagination.

Need proof? This past summer, the average ESPN viewing audience for MLS soccer was 251,000--a negligible amount. On the Fox Soccer channel, the number is a miserable 53,000 per game. Further, of the top ten soccer game attendances in 2010 in this country, not one was a MLS game. In fact, it's look as if Fox will drop its affiliation with MLS pretty soon. Just to give you a little context, the lowest rated college bowl game last year, Middle Tennessee State vs. Southern Miss, drew somewhere close to 2,000,000 viewers. In short, MLS has a long, long way to go.
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Old 12-13-2010, 03:18 PM
 
28,905 posts, read 46,762,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interpol76 View Post
What does bother me is idiotic assumptions such as "nobody cares about soccer in this country". That is completely asinine, and when I hear it I call people out on it. It is the number 1 participation sport in the country as a whole and number 2 organized participation sport among adults (behind softball, and no...I don't consider bowling, poker, pool and golf sports). So, obviously someone is playing it. And, the professional league (MLS) is the number 3 most attended professional sports league in the country. So, obviously somebody is watching it. And, yes...it is absolutely ELITIST to assume that the soccer world somehow needs Americans to like it. Especially when they already do. If the world was somehow "begging" the US to like soccer like you stated, logic would dictate that FIFA would have awarded the world cup to us.
Huge fallacies in your statement. Shall I enumerate?

1) By #1 participation sport, do you mean youth soccer leagues? Of course you fail to mention that the kids lose interest and move on to sports such as football, baseball and even lacrosse by the time they get older. And as far as participation sports goes, that is an utterly meaningless yardstick. Most Americans have zip for time to play on a team sport, and if they were, they sure wouldn't be playing football. That's a good way to get killed.

2) MLS has the 3 highest attendance of any sport in the country? Let's see, baseball had 73,000,000 attend games last year. The NBA had 24,000,000 fans attend, the NHL had 23,000,000, and the NFL had 17,000,000. Meanwhile, MLS had 4,000,0000. So, I'm not sure where you got your figures, but they're nowhere close to accurate.

3) You don't even take into account the abysmal television viewership for soccer, which averages less than 250,000 viewers PER GAME. That is an astonishingly low number in a country of more than 300,000,000. That means less than one American in 1,000 is tuned in to any given MLS game. To sit here and tell me, then that somehow MLS is anywhere close to the sports I cited above is just laughable.
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Old 12-13-2010, 04:37 PM
 
1,645 posts, read 4,014,907 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Huge fallacies in your statement. Shall I enumerate?

1) By #1 participation sport, do you mean youth soccer leagues? Of course you fail to mention that the kids lose interest and move on to sports such as football, baseball and even lacrosse by the time they get older. And as far as participation sports goes, that is an utterly meaningless yardstick. Most Americans have zip for time to play on a team sport, and if they were, they sure wouldn't be playing football. That's a good way to get killed.

2) MLS has the 3 highest attendance of any sport in the country? Let's see, baseball had 73,000,000 attend games last year. The NBA had 24,000,000 fans attend, the NHL had 23,000,000, and the NFL had 17,000,000. Meanwhile, MLS had 4,000,0000. So, I'm not sure where you got your figures, but they're nowhere close to accurate.

3) You don't even take into account the abysmal television viewership for soccer, which averages less than 250,000 viewers PER GAME. That is an astonishingly low number in a country of more than 300,000,000. That means less than one American in 1,000 is tuned in to any given MLS game. To sit here and tell me, then that somehow MLS is anywhere close to the sports I cited above is just laughable.
1. Not true. Adult rec soccer leagues are huge in this country. Whether it be indoor or outdoor. I play adult rec hockey which shares an arena with flag football, soccer, lacrosse, and volleyball leagues, and the soccer leagues always have the most participating players.... by far. And these are grown adults playing, by the way.

2. Sorry I didnt clarify....Average MLS attendance is around 17,000 fans per game. Which is right up there, and often times higher than the average attendance of NBA and NHL games. The Seattle Sounders average around 36,000 fans per game. Sure they play less games than NBA/NHL, but MLS attendance has been increasing (up 4% this year), while the NBA, NFL, MLB, NHL have seen attendance decreases in the last few years. Not too bad for a league that gets almost ZERO coverage.

3. I completely agree with you that MLS tv viewership is poor. Showing games on Thursday nights at 11pm est isn't exactly the greatest time slot. Nor, is Sunday nights (during the playoffs) head to head with the NFL. Still though, you've got to understand that not all soccer fans in this country are MLS fans. When Manchester United, Real Madrid, Chelsea, Celtic, and even the Mexican League teams do American tours, they almost always completely sell out NFL stadiums. Hell...look at the MLS All-Stars vs. Manchester United game last year... Completely sold out Reliant Stadium (70,000).

I'm in no way saying that MLS is as big as the NFL, MLB and NBA. But, I think you are vastly underestimating the popularity of the sport itself in this country.
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Old 12-13-2010, 05:21 PM
 
28,905 posts, read 46,762,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interpol76 View Post
1. Not true. Adult rec soccer leagues are huge in this country. Whether it be indoor or outdoor. I play adult rec hockey which shares an arena with flag football, soccer, lacrosse, and volleyball leagues, and the soccer leagues always have the most participating players.... by far. And these are grown adults playing, by the way.

If you go by that standard, then you might as well say that track and field is the most popular sport in the United States based on how many joggers there are.

2. Sorry I didnt clarify....Average MLS attendance is around 17,000 fans per game. Which is right up there, and often times higher than the average attendance of NBA and NHL games. The Seattle Sounders average around 36,000 fans per game. Sure they play less games than NBA/NHL, but MLS attendance has been increasing (up 4% this year), while the NBA, NFL, MLB, NHL have seen attendance decreases in the last few years. Not too bad for a league that gets almost ZERO coverage.

Actually, according to MLS, their numbers had a bump of 2%, and an overall average attendance of 16,000, a number right up there with some Texas high school football games. Zowee.

Further analysis of other sports finds your conclusions to be spurious. The NFL sells at 90% capacity in all but five of its franchises. The NBA has seen increases in attendance for years. MLB saw a drop in overall attendance, but 30% of that number came from the fact that both New York teams cut capacity when they moved into their new stadiums this year.


3. I completely agree with you that MLS tv viewership is poor. Showing games on Thursday nights at 11pm est isn't exactly the greatest time slot. Nor, is Sunday nights (during the playoffs) head to head with the NFL. Still though, you've got to understand that not all soccer fans in this country are MLS fans. When Manchester United, Real Madrid, Chelsea, Celtic, and even the Mexican League teams do American tours, they almost always completely sell out NFL stadiums. Hell...look at the MLS All-Stars vs. Manchester United game last year... Completely sold out Reliant Stadium (70,000).

A pretty questionable argument. If there was a groundswell of viewership, then ESPN would find a way to put it in prime time. I realize you're paranoid in this regard, but there is no widespread conspiracy to keep soccer out of prime time. Programmers really strive to find what's popular and put it in prime time, not vice versa. You keep saying that MLS gets zero coverage, so it doesn't garner fan support. The truth is the exact opposite. The MLS doesn't get big fan support, so it doesn't garner a lot of coverage.

What's more, saying that Manchester United selling out in the United States is an argument that doesn't hold much water. The NFL has sold out playing in Wembley Stadium and Mexico City. Does that mean that England and Mexico are eagerly embracing our brand of football? I doubt it.
.
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Old 12-13-2010, 06:28 PM
 
1,645 posts, read 4,014,907 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
.
1. Jogging is not an organized sport. I'm talking about organized participation rec. sports. Oh, and by the way... where exactly do all those adult soccer players come from if the sport is so unpopular, hated, and so many kids give up on it to play other sports?

2. 4 percent----> SoccerAmerica - MLS attendance on the rise 10/26/2010

If you don't believe me just google it. NBA, MLB, NHL, and NFL have all seen attendance drops over the last few years. But, that really isn't the point. The point is MLS keeps up with many of those leagues attendance wise. If MLS were to have attendance figures comperable to Major League Lacrosse (4,000 ish game in and game out) then I could see your point.

3. I never said there is a conspiracy to keep soccer out of prime time, good god, man. And, yes...MLS DOES get great fan support. 38,000 fans cheering on Seattle every single game is not great fan support? And, every other team that regularly puts 13,000-20,000 fans in the seats has fantastic fan support (including the 2 teams playing in small transitional stadiums). And, it's only going to get bigger as soccer crazy Portland and Vancouver join up next year.

Anyway, I'm done arguing this. So, just keep listening to your Tony Kornheiser, Jim Rome, Glenn Beck, and Bill O'Reily's of the world.
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Old 12-13-2010, 07:30 PM
 
76 posts, read 95,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
Because it's slow moving and boring.
Funny. I'm participating in a discussion about Football in a Swedish forum. The main reason given in that discussion for (American) Football's failure to catch on in Europe is that it's "slow moving and boring. I think that many people who find either sport boring just hasn't made an effort to understand the game.
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