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Old 05-03-2011, 10:32 AM
 
Location: London, England
643 posts, read 982,562 times
Reputation: 160

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Everything should be equal. What do you want communist football? And i don't think anyone in the top Euro league takes any interest in the MLS. I think most expect NY, LA and RSL to win most things, so i wouldn't say it's that even.
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Old 05-03-2011, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
5,763 posts, read 9,762,881 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LondonUSA View Post
Everything should be equal. What do you want communist football? And i don't think anyone in the top Euro league takes any interest in the MLS.
Yes, everything should be equal. It's not communism, it is how sports leagues should operate. When two teams step on a field and they are in the same league, their payrolls and talent levels should be similar. If it is not, the league setup has flaws. The game needs to be decided on the field, not from which team has more money to spend.

I can assure you that the MLS has the attention of officials in EPL and other major European leagues. With teams going bankrupt left and right and all the other problems those leagues are facing, they are looking around to see what other countries do and the success of MLS from a business perspective has their attention.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LondonUSA View Post
I think most expect NY, LA and RSL to win most things, so i wouldn't say it's that even.
NY has never won anything. Nothing. They have existed for 16 years and do not have a single piece of hardware in any competition in their history. They are the least accomplished franchise in MLS history. They are an epic failure. You could write a history book on MLS and NY wouldnt even have a chapter. Yet, you expect them to win things. Oh, okay. That makes sense.

RSL has one trophy in their history.

LA has won several trophies but are inconsistent. Just three years ago, they were one of the worst teams in the league.

One of those three teams may win the Supporters Shield, USOC, or MLS Cup or none of the three may win anything. You see how that works. We do not know who will win. That is how it should be.

There should be a cycle that applies where some teams are amongst the top in the league and as they lose players, they fall back into the middle and others rise and then eventually that team will be amongst the bottom. Then, they will rise back up to the middle and then to the top. That is how a successful sports league works.

If you knew the ending to a movie, would you go to the theater to watch it? If you knew the ending of a book, would you go ahead and read it? That's essentially what the EPL is. It is a book or movie that you already know how it is going to end. The end should be a surprise. One of the top reasons people follow sports is the uncertainty. When you take that away, you lose a large part of the enjoyment.

Are you all trying to tell me that you wouldnt find the EPL more enjoyable if all 20 teams had a chance to win the title at the beginning of the season?
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Old 05-03-2011, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
5,763 posts, read 9,762,881 times
Reputation: 2809
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH View Post
Dude listen. I spoke to people about it and they gave me their answers. I dont know what else to say on that subject. Obviously you being a SKC fan you know better than everybody else, your opinion counts for more. Every country in the world has a league setup becauset they think its better but the MLS does not so you think everybody else has a bad setup. Leagues that have been around for 100+ years vs MLS's what, 4th attempt that I know of at making a soccer league. So yeh, everybody else has the wrong setup that has worked for 100 years :S

Youre not sharing actual facts, youre stating stuff taht you have not yet linked to do prove its true. You say EPL and other leagues say the MLS is a great setup and you have not shown me where that is. Thats not a fact thats a dude on a forum saything things are factual and thats it.

The problem with those leagues is that they have been around so long that they are stuck in their ways. You sound like Sepp Blatter who refuses to embrace new technology. When you refuse to change with the world, you cannot remain the best.

Sports is a business and business climates change. If your business does not adapt, it is likely going to fail. Why do you think a lot of these teams are going bankrupt? It is because the system is no longer working and it needs to change. Are you really arguing that those leagues are working when a good chunk of the teams are in dire financial troubles. You have a funny idea of what successful is. You cant have several organizations within your league enter adminstration or borrowing billions to stay a float and say that it is working. That isnt working, that is barely staying alive.

What are you talking about with the MLS fourth attempt at a league? This is the first time this organization has formed a soccer league. Where are you getting that from?
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Old 05-03-2011, 01:51 PM
 
Location: London, England
643 posts, read 982,562 times
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It was equal back in 1900 but as it has become more popular more money has been invested. Putting a wag cap on would kill the league and make it go backwards.

In their conferences LA, RSL and NY were clear leaders.

Saying it should be even, are you expecting Chivas to win anything anytime soon?
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Old 05-04-2011, 01:33 AM
 
2,858 posts, read 3,949,174 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LondonUSA View Post
It was equal back in 1900 but as it has become more popular more money has been invested. Putting a wag cap on would kill the league and make it go backwards.

In their conferences LA, RSL and NY were clear leaders.

Saying it should be even, are you expecting Chivas to win anything anytime soon?
A wage cap wouldn't kill the league. It might keep ManU from winning 95% of the league titles, however.

I think that some of you have lost the plot to what "competition" is all about. Each team has 11 players. This is to make it equal. It is not communism to require each team start with the same number of players.

And, I notice that the field is mostly FLAT; in other words, it does not slant towards one end (there is a slight slope laterally to promote drainage, of course.) So why not a wage cap to guarantee that all teams can field competitive teams?

The Bosman ruling is what started the downfall of Euro zone futbol. Some teams specialised in training up young players who could be sold on to the silly money squads. But the Bosman ruling treated futbol like manufacturing labour, which is a poor analogy. Now, the silly money squads scour the Continent and grab young promising players, often without a fee, and bury them in their reserve squads. Most never see the light of day, i.e., a first team match. The smaller, poorer clubs are smaller and poorer for it, and the silly money squads squelch competition.

Okay, so we don't agree. Fine. You go back to watching the ManU channel: see what Rooney eats for lunch. I'll go back to watching competitive (MLS) futbol.
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Old 05-04-2011, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
5,763 posts, read 9,762,881 times
Reputation: 2809
Quote:
Originally Posted by LondonUSA View Post
It was equal back in 1900 but as it has become more popular more money has been invested. Putting a wag cap on would kill the league and make it go backwards.
The EPL actually had preliminary discussions about implementing a wage cap this off-season. I would be shocked if one isnt put into place in the next decade.

You think a wage cap will kill the league? Wrong. Having half of the teams go completely bankrupt because they struggle to meet the ridiculous salary demands of players is what will kill the league.

Financial responsibility is completely lacking in European football. The best way to manage it is to put a cap on what these teams can spend and even the playing field a bit.

I'm not saying that Stoke is ever going to have the same roster that Man U has but they sure can get a hell of a lot closer.

I dont see how any fan could not want more teams to be competitive. It makes everything better from a fan perspective. Unless you are a Man U fan, it is ridiculous to not want that.

Just because something has been done one way for decades doesnt mean it is the right way.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LondonUSA View Post
In their conferences LA, RSL and NY were clear leaders.
Are you talking about this season or last season?

Because last season NY won their conference by a single point and I wouldnt call them clear leaders right now either with several teams on their heals.

Last season 13 points was the difference between the 1st place team and the last place team in the Western Conference and the 5th place team wont the title.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LondonUSA View Post
Saying it should be even, are you expecting Chivas to win anything anytime soon?
You never know. That's what you dont seem to be understanding of. Chivas very well could win hardware. That's the difference between MLS and the EPL. In MLS, all teams have a shot.

There are always going to be teams that are better than others. Right now, LA, NY, and RSL are probably the best. However, all three of those team were among the worst just three seasons ago. In fact, NY was one of the worst teams in league history just three years ago. Thats how a sports team is suppose to work, there is suppose to be a changing of the guard every few years.
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Old 05-04-2011, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Tejas
7,552 posts, read 16,416,577 times
Reputation: 5092
How do European clubs have NO financial responsibility. Do you understand every league in Europe ? UEFA is bringing in financial regulations which some Euro leagues have already adopted or in the process of adopting early. Licensing (sp) need to play in various leagues etc, financial obligations need to be met. I would advise you to not make such broad statements if you have no idea wtf you are talking about.

If you cap a players wage at X Thousand a week, Stoke is still in no way going to be able to compete, its not going to happen. They still wont generate the revenue to pay players the top wage because of lack of fanbase. Youre not going to have Wayne Rooney types sign for them simply becuase they can pay the same as Man Utd. The Club lacks stature, facilities and all that good stuff.

3 teams can still win the leauge with 3 games left. I fail to see how the title runin is not exciting. Not everybody has a chance to win MLS, its foolish to believe that.

Youre the only person that thinks Chivas have a chance then. This early in the season I would rule out San Jose, Chivas, Vancouver and Kansas.
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
5,763 posts, read 9,762,881 times
Reputation: 2809
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH View Post
How do European clubs have NO financial responsibility. Do you understand every league in Europe ? UEFA is bringing in financial regulations which some Euro leagues have already adopted or in the process of adopting early. Licensing (sp) need to play in various leagues etc, financial obligations need to be met. I would advise you to not make such broad statements if you have no idea wtf you are talking about.
UEFA is taking steps which is good. However, it may not be enough to stop clubs from engaging in bidding wars and then having to take multi-million pound loans to keep up. When you have so many clubs facing bankruptcy, the system is flawed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH View Post
If you cap a players wage at X Thousand a week, Stoke is still in no way going to be able to compete, its not going to happen. They still wont generate the revenue to pay players the top wage because of lack of fanbase. Youre not going to have Wayne Rooney types sign for them simply becuase they can pay the same as Man Utd. The Club lacks stature, facilities and all that good stuff.
I understand that and I know not every team is going to compete. It is about giving them a better opportunity to compete.

No, Wayne Rooney may not sign with them but they can still get better players and as the playing field levels, the stigma attached to playing for clubs like Stoke with fade and two generations from now, it may not be that odd to sign for a lower level club.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH View Post
3 teams can still win the leauge with 3 games left. I fail to see how the title runin is not exciting. Not everybody has a chance to win MLS, its foolish to believe that.
No, not everyone has a chance to win at MLS but every team has the OPPORTUNITY to build a team to win MLS. Some teams choose not to spend the entire amount they are allowed to spend (i.e. Chivas) or do not have the initiative or drive to build a good team. You do realize that just three years ago Chivas damn near wont eh Supporter's Shield?

Teams also run in cycles. As I said before, NY, LA, and RSL were among the worst in the league just three years ago and now look where they are. Three years from now, Chivas, Vancouver, and Toronto could be among the best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH View Post
Youre the only person that thinks Chivas have a chance then. This early in the season I would rule out San Jose, Chivas, Vancouver and Kansas.
Chivas is well under the salary cap and has already announced plans to sign a DP level striker and other players in the summer transfer window which could turn their team around.

San Jose has played the least amount of games of anyone in the league and has a solid team.

Vancouver is an expansion team so you really cannot expect them to win anything.

It's Kansas City, not Kansas. They have started on a 10 game road trip and their best player has only played 120 minutes this season. They finish with 17 of their last 24 games at home including 12 of 13 in a row from July 23rd to September 28th.

To count any of those teams out this early is foolish and if you think that, you havent watched MLS that closely. Is it likely, probably not but they sure can turn it into a race. Teams that start well have a history of falling apart later in the season and blowing the SS.

Last year, Dallas started off really bad and then went on a 19 game unbeaten streak.

In MLS, 8 different teams have won the Supporter's Shield over a 15 year period. 9 different teams have won the MLS Cup in the same period.

In that same period of 15 years, EPL has had three champions with 9 of them going to Man U.
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Tejas
7,552 posts, read 16,416,577 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
UEFA is taking steps which is good. However, it may not be enough to stop clubs from engaging in bidding wars and then having to take multi-million pound loans to keep up. When you have so many clubs facing bankruptcy, the system is flawed.
The system has not actually kicked in. I said some countries have adopted it early. So its too early to call it flawed.


Quote:
I understand that and I know not every team is going to compete. It is about giving them a better opportunity to compete.

No, Wayne Rooney may not sign with them but they can still get better players and as the playing field levels, the stigma attached to playing for clubs like Stoke with fade and two generations from now, it may not be that odd to sign for a lower level club.
Youre wrong. They club simply wont have the finances to pay high wages at all. Its not going to happen. Some clubs have such a low fanbase and small stadiums it will never happen.


Quote:
No, not everyone has a chance to win at MLS but every team has the OPPORTUNITY to build a team to win MLS. Some teams choose not to spend the entire amount they are allowed to spend (i.e. Chivas) or do not have the initiative or drive to build a good team. You do realize that just three years ago Chivas damn near wont eh Supporter's Shield?
Damn near won it, well that just impresses the hell out of me right there :S

Quote:
Teams also run in cycles. As I said before, NY, LA, and RSL were among the worst in the league just three years ago and now look where they are. Three years from now, Chivas, Vancouver, and Toronto could be among the best.



Chivas is well under the salary cap and has already announced plans to sign a DP level striker and other players in the summer transfer window which could turn their team around.
So because they have plans to sign a DP, that means theyre going to get a good player that will make them win the MLS ? I am pretty sure it does not work out that way. Teams can announce and have all the plans in the world but it does not mean its going to pan out.

Quote:
San Jose has played the least amount of games of anyone in the league and has a solid team.

Vancouver is an expansion team so you really cannot expect them to win anything.
I am just sayin, youre the one that said everybody has a chance to win MLS, not me. I was mearly pointing it out that they dont and realistically its down to 3 maybe 4 teams at this point of the season.

Quote:
It's Kansas City, not Kansas. They have started on a 10 game road trip and their best player has only played 120 minutes this season. They finish with 17 of their last 24 games at home including 12 of 13 in a row from July 23rd to September 28th.
Kansas, Kansas City, Sporing Franchise, The Wiz, whatever dude yous have changed your name so much I couldnt care less what you want to call it. Ill stick to Kansas ...

Quote:
To count any of those teams out this early is foolish and if you think that, you havent watched MLS that closely. Is it likely, probably not but they sure can turn it into a race. Teams that start well have a history of falling apart later in the season and blowing the SS.
Yeh dude its totally foolish to pick the bottom teams from each group and say they cant win it lol.

Quote:
Last year, Dallas started off really bad and then went on a 19 game unbeaten streak.

In MLS, 8 different teams have won the Supporter's Shield over a 15 year period. 9 different teams have won the MLS Cup in the same period.

In that same period of 15 years, EPL has had three champions with 9 of them going to Man U.
That does not mean it wasnt an exciting season.
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Old 05-04-2011, 12:36 PM
 
Location: London, England
643 posts, read 982,562 times
Reputation: 160
Does the EPL not spend so much because teams see that one of the big English teams wants one of their players so they demand much higher than if a Turkish or Polish team was going for the same player?
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