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Old 03-09-2011, 10:39 AM
 
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why not?

another thing to note is that american sports leagues really strive for competative balance with teams focused on winning championships and making it to the top of the league as opposed to doing just enough to not get relegated

it's a franchise model where the competativeness of the league is in the best interest of the league and successful teams and teams that draw are generally those who can compete and put a strong product on the field

I really can't think of a single benefit to it ..... although, I could see if you were used to a sport where the same 4 teams are constantly at the top it would be important to manufacture some drama at the bottom
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Old 03-09-2011, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LondonUSA View Post
What so if soccer became very popular you would be happy with a 30 team league?

I doubt MLS will get that big. The NFL, NBA, NHL, and even MLB are finding that having 3+ teams are a drain and some of those leagues have discussed contraction and it may be imminent for the NBA.

I think the MLS will pause at 20 teams and then use some time to strengthen their strengths and fix their weaknesses and then look to expand to 24 teams and stop.
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Old 03-09-2011, 10:49 AM
 
Location: London, England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post
why not?

another thing to note is that american sports leagues really strive for competative balance with teams focused on winning championships and making it to the top of the league as opposed to doing just enough to not get relegated

it's a franchise model where the competativeness of the league is in the best interest of the league and successful teams and teams that draw are generally those who can compete and put a strong product on the field

I really can't think of a single benefit to it ..... although, I could see if you were used to a sport where the same 4 teams are constantly at the top it would be important to manufacture some drama at the bottom

The same 4 teams? It's been like that the last 3 or so years and then it was stopped by Spurs. Now Man City are up in 3rd at the moment and Spurs in 5th so it's not like its always the top 4.

Relegation puts pressure on the lesser teams to do well which makes the lague more exciting. Take the premier league this year. Fulham in 11th are 4 points off a European position and 5 points from relegation.
This year we also have Blackpool arguably the smallest team ever in the top flight on English football who are doing ok with their unique approach to the game.
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Old 03-09-2011, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Originally Posted by LondonUSA View Post
The same 4 teams? It's been like that the last 3 or so years and then it was stopped by Spurs. Now Man City are up in 3rd at the moment and Spurs in 5th so it's not like its always the top 4.

Relegation puts pressure on the lesser teams to do well which makes the lague more exciting. Take the premier league this year. Fulham in 11th are 4 points off a European position and 5 points from relegation.
This year we also have Blackpool arguably the smallest team ever in the top flight on English football who are doing ok with their unique approach to the game.

I am not arguing that it isnt exciting. I like the pro/reg races in Europe.

It is the off-the-field issues that make it not feasible here. As someone else said, it creates a situation where someone's 100 million dollar investment depreciate rapidly due to one bad season. Regulation is something that could bankrupt a lot of teams quickly.

If European leagues were to start in this modern age of business, they wouldnt have pro/reg either. I guarantee it. It is only because of the time it has excited that it can happen there.
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Old 03-09-2011, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Scotland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post
why not?

another thing to note is that american sports leagues really strive for competative balance with teams focused on winning championships and making it to the top of the league as opposed to doing just enough to not get relegated

it's a franchise model where the competativeness of the league is in the best interest of the league and successful teams and teams that draw are generally those who can compete and put a strong product on the field

I really can't think of a single benefit to it ..... although, I could see if you were used to a sport where the same 4 teams are constantly at the top it would be important to manufacture some drama at the bottom
so, them 4 teams could be the best in the world! look at spurs and man city in england, wolfsberg and dortmant in germany, valencia, villareal and atletico madrid in spain, bourdeax in france if you run a club right get investmet (not always, if you are good in the tranfer market) you can compete with the best teams, you have to strive and want to do it though, celtic and rangers were not the best teams in scotland in the 80's it was aberdeen and dundee united, but look at them now, manchester united were a shambles before alex ferguson took over, look at them now, chelsea are now a top team aswell, they weren't a decade ago, the EPL is the best league in the world, people love arsenal but they haven;t won a trophy in a while, but people still love them for their style of play, so it's not all about trophies,, but it helps obviously, same with real madrid, people still love them
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Old 03-09-2011, 10:56 AM
 
Location: London, England
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Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
I am not arguing that it isnt exciting. I like the pro/reg races in Europe.

It is the off-the-field issues that make it not feasible here. As someone else said, it creates a situation where someone's 100 million dollar investment depreciate rapidly due to one bad season. Regulation is something that could bankrupt a lot of teams quickly.

If European leagues were to start in this modern age of business, they wouldnt have pro/reg either. I guarantee it. It is only because of the time it has excited that it can happen there.

The person before said that he would be ok with a 30 team league. I was thinking if it got that popular (would take a lot of time) would it not be better to have a promotion/releagtion in the league? Just so you have two leagues of 15 or something.
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:04 AM
 
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How many teams have won the championship in the history of the premiership?

ManCity was recently bought by some very deep pockets and have purchased their way to relevance .... good for them, but not really indicative of a strong league structure

Pressure is put on lesser teams here by their fans to perform and to make revenue ..... if you aren't winning you aren't going to be a long term draw and make a lot of cash

since they formed the premiership there have been 9 teams that have finished in the top 3 and 4 teams have won a title .... since 1995 the same 3 teams have accounted for all the titles

over the prior 7 season the top 3 have consisted of only 4 teams .... manchester united, chelsea, arsenal or liverpool ..... again, not really compelling

In 2007 the SF Giants finished last in their division ... in 2008 they finished 2nd to last in their division .... in 2010 they won the WS

In 2006 the Chicago Blackhawks finished 5th in their division ... in 2007 they finished 3rd in their division and missed the playoffs ... in 2008 they made the conference championship and in 2009 they won the cup

In 2008 the packers went 6-10 ..... in 2010 they won the championship

Blackpool is a cute story ... but lets be honest, there is no chance they will ever sniff a champions league spot, let alone a league title ..... all their fans have to look forward to is trying to stay up
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:15 AM
 
Location: London, England
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Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post
Blackpool is a cute story ... but lets be honest, there is no chance they will ever sniff a champions league spot, let alone a league title ..... all their fans have to look forward to is trying to stay up

That's what im saying though. It gives smaller teams something to look forward to. There is 92 teams in the English football league and it allows them to push up the leagues and become successful.
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:19 AM
 
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Also, with all of that said I really don't have anything against pro/releg in concept ... it can work in some areas

the basic facts are that it's not the model of success in US sports and it's not something that will ever be feasible or accepted here ..... so going down the path too deeply is just mental self pleasure

We don't have a connection to europe ... there isn't any connection to their leagues or having our league champion line up against the best ....... we are europe - especially when you consider that MLS is using larger canadian cities in their model

it's a giant land mass with mega cities that are just making the investment into the infrastructure for the sport ... specific stadiums are being built, academies formed, marketing, player acquisition/development plus all the league costs ..... this requires a lot of funds and markets that are viable now and in the future

as much as I'd love to see Rochester get an MLS team I have accepted that ship has sailed and while promotion (if existed) could be a path the bottom line is if MLS felt it was worthwhile and an ownership group existed with pockets deep enough it would be done

the goal is to create a league full of viable and competative teams ..... this structure will make it more palatable for investors & communities to support the teams and pay the cost to play

no city is going to issue bonds with a long tail to build a stadium with an anticipated return of a major league sport only to get minor league returns .... they need some assurance as well

and for the most part the model works ..... american sports leagues are competative and thriving as a rule (although there are exceptions and room for improvement)

right now it's not about getting competative on a world stage - it's about getting competative and compelling to a domestic audience

20 years down the line if the model is failing or if there is a need to unbalance the league in an effort for international success then there could be a discussion .... but at this point it's all vanity to even think of that as a goal

build a stable, growing, profitable league and over time that success will build on itself to a point where you'll have a league full of high end franchises
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
5,763 posts, read 9,769,819 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LondonUSA View Post
The person before said that he would be ok with a 30 team league. I was thinking if it got that popular (would take a lot of time) would it not be better to have a promotion/releagtion in the league? Just so you have two leagues of 15 or something.

They could have 30 teams right now if they wanted to do that. They have had that many ownership groups come forward in that past. However, expanding more than a couple of teams a year would be a horrible business decision.
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