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Old 06-25-2012, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
5,763 posts, read 9,754,815 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
This actually backs up one of my points. Soccer participation rates don't mean much of anything because the game is essentially another activity for kids to participate in...like playing the violin.









Youth Popularity of Soccer

You can say that about anything that kids do. However, the amount of participation and the popularity of the game is a positive trends and boast well for the sport.

Kids could just as easily play other sports but they dont.

 
Old 06-25-2012, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,272 posts, read 26,286,355 times
Reputation: 11734
Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
That doesnt change the fact that Philadelphia has some of the richest soccer history in the nation. One of the first ever professional soccer leagues to exist in this country were developed in Philly. I dont recall the name of it but here is actually an entire book on Philadelphia and soccer. Also, the Union have a higher attendance average than the 76ers. If soccer is not big in the region, why is that the case?
Philadelphia has some of the "firsts" in many things. There's even a whole webpage devoted to this topic. But the fact we may have had one of the first soccer leagues has no bearing on the popularity of the sport in the region. Basketball is, by a conservative estimate, at least 455 times as popular as soccer in the Philadelphia area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
No, it is a football and baseball dominated country. Basketball, soccer, hockey, NASCAR, and golf are all fighting for the entertainment dollar after that.
No, it's a football and basketball dominated country. Football and basketball do something that no other sport does: they command attention at both the collegiate and professional level. The NBA and March Madness are way bigger than MLB and college baseball. March Madness generates 90 percent of the NCAA's revenue.

Why March Madness is Bigger than the Super Bowl - Money Morning

You could name a dozen college basketball coaches from Coach K to Bobby Knight to Rick Patino to Dean Smith to John Wooden to Jimmy V to John Thompson to Jerry K. Try naming a college baseball coach without resorting to Google.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
Did you know that in 2008 and 2009 when the recession occurred that the only professional sports teams in the U.S. that did not see a decline in season ticket sales were MLS teams? Not only did they not see a decline but they actually saw an increase in sales overall as a league whereas the NFL, MLB, and NBA saw steep declines.
Did you just read my post where I point out that basktball gets tremendous fan support at the collegiate level whereas soccer does not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
Most kids quit everything but the time they hit high school including football, basketball, baseball, playing the drums, or whatever else they were into. It isnt just soccer that kids leave.
Funny enough, when you Google, "Kids quit basketball," nothing on point even comes up. Kids don't quit basketball and football; they get forced out because they aren't good enough. Even when they stop playing competitively, the overwhelming majority will follow the Bulls, the Browns, the Phillies, etc. Most kids, however, will not follow soccer because they never really considered it a sport in the first place. It was just something to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
I'm not saying that soccer is more popular in this country than football, baseball, or basketball but rather that the gap is closing and much closer than you either realize or are willing to admit.
Not. Soccer is still a white, middle to upper-middle class sport that's made virtually no inroads into working-class and inner city America.

Sports | U.S. Soccer Must Attract Blacks, Says Fricker | Seattle Times Newspaper

U.S. TV Audience For Int'l Soccer Trends Affluent, White Collar - SportsBusiness Daily | SportsBusiness Journal | SportsBusiness Daily Global
 
Old 06-25-2012, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,272 posts, read 26,286,355 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
You can say that about anything that kids do. However, the amount of participation and the popularity of the game is a positive trends and boast well for the sport.
Soccer has an inherent institutional bias that basketball lacks: nearly all kids have to join a league to play it in this country.

Sure, if you count up the number of kids who "participate" in youth sports, more kids play soccer than basketball. But that doesn't mean that more kids actually play soccer than basketball. Most kids don't play on an organized basketball team until junior high school. Often times they won't even play on a team until they're in high school. This is completely different from soccer where kids start playing in leagues from Day One. It's difficult to account for the kids who just shoot it up in their backyard from age 6-14, but I can assure you that the number of kids playing backyard basketball is significantly larger than the number of kids playing backyard soccer.
 
Old 06-25-2012, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
5,763 posts, read 9,754,815 times
Reputation: 2809
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Philadelphia has some of the "firsts" in many things. There's even a whole webpage devoted to this topic. But the fact we may have had one of the first soccer leagues has no bearing on the popularity of the sport in the region. Basketball is, by a conservative estimate, at least 455 times as popular as soccer in the Philadelphia area.
So, why do the Union outdraw the 76ers?


Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
No, it's a football and basketball dominated country. Football and basketball do something that no other sport does: they command attention at both the collegiate and professional level. The NBA and March Madness are way bigger than MLB and college baseball. March Madness generates 90 percent of the NCAA's revenue.

Why March Madness is Bigger than the Super Bowl - Money Morning
I am well aware of the impact of college basketball, I live in Kansas City, remember?

Baseball is still the #2 most popular sport in this country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Did you just read my post where I point out that basktball gets tremendous fan support at the collegiate level whereas soccer does not?
What does that have to do with season tickets at the professional level? By the way, you keep throwing at the East coast and how it rules the U.S. The best college soccer programs in the U.S. are all on the East Coast. How would these schools build perennial powerhouse programs if the sport wasnt that popular out there?


Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Funny enough, when you Google, "Kids quit basketball," nothing on point even comes up. Kids don't quit basketball and football; they get forced out because they aren't good enough. Even when they stop playing competitively, the overwhelming majority will follow the Bulls, the Browns, the Phillies, etc. Most kids, however, will not follow soccer because they never really considered it a sport in the first place. It was just something to do.
Hyperbole, much? Kids do not quit basketball and football? Really? I am sure every kid that quit those sports did so because they werent good enough. Surely no kid ever just lot interest and wanted to do something else. I played both basketball and football when I was a kid and I quit both by the time I was done with middle school. I lost interest and enjoyed playing soccer and swimming competitively more.

Now you're just being ridiculous. Most kids quit the activities they do as a kid at some point for a multitude of reasons and that includes everything from soccer to playing the guitar to scrapbooking. Hell, I went to high school with a guy that had Division I football scholarship to Notre Dame and he quit. Never went to college at all. He decided he wanted to take over his dad's lawn care business. I guess he quit because he wasnt good enough, right? I mean Notre Dame just hands out scholarships like lollipops. Most all kids quit their sports by the time they leave high school for a variety of reasons including those that could have played during college. I had a cross country and track scholarship and I passed on it. Some will play at the college level and some might play rec league as an adult buy an overwhelming majority quit for a variety of reasons in all sports. If you truly believe that kids magically quit soccer for different reasons than they quit other activities then you are a clueless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
So, I guess the unparalleled growth in attendance over NBA and NHL teams, the unprecedented increase in sponsorship dollars, the multiple soccer specific stadiums popping up, and the other strides MLS has made in the last decade has either been made up or these business men they have more money than either you or I will ever dream of are just putting money into a sinking boat? Surely, people like Cliff Illig, Robert Kraft, Drew Carey, AEG, Clark Hunt, Steve Nash and others would just throw hundreds of millions of their own money into something that isnt at all popular. Surely, Arthur Blank wouldnt be trying to get a franchise for the past 6 years into something that isnt popular. Would MLS really be able to raise the expansion fee from 6 million to 60 million in just a few years and still have ownership groups vieing to get into the league if it wasnt?

Why is the MLS still expanding while the NBA and NHL have recently considered contraction?
 
Old 06-25-2012, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
5,763 posts, read 9,754,815 times
Reputation: 2809
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Soccer has an inherent institutional bias that basketball lacks: nearly all kids have to join a league to play it in this country.

Sure, if you count up the number of kids who "participate" in youth sports, more kids play soccer than basketball. But that doesn't mean that more kids actually play soccer than basketball. Most kids don't play on an organized basketball team until junior high school. Often times they won't even play on a team until they're in high school. This is completely different from soccer where kids start playing in leagues from Day One. It's difficult to account for the kids who just shoot it up in their backyard from age 6-14, but I can assure you that the number of kids playing backyard basketball is significantly larger than the number of kids playing backyard soccer.
I played on my first basketball team when I was in first grade. My 4 year old daughter can go to a beginners basketball academy and start playing on an actual team when she is 5. Interestingly enough, the same thing about soccer is true.
 
Old 06-25-2012, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,272 posts, read 26,286,355 times
Reputation: 11734
Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
So, why do the Union outdraw the 76ers?
I didn't even know Philadelphia had an MLS team until I read this thread. That shows how popular they are in the region.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
Baseball is still the #2 most popular sport in this country.
Says you? The NCAA tournament is the most viewed sporting event in the country after the Super Bowl. And nearly every company in America has office brackets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
What does that have to do with season tickets at the professional level?
Because the sport's following reaches beyond the NBA. Just like soccer's following reaches beyond MLS, right? There are a whole lot of people who love college basketball but hate the NBA. And there are a whole lot of people who follow the NFL but could not care less about college football. If you look at the sports scene in its entirety, it's abundantly clear that football and basketball are the most popular, and hence, the most profitable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
By the way, you keep throwing at the East coast and how it rules the U.S. The best college soccer programs in the U.S. are all on the East Coast.
Since when does "Eastern US" equal "East Coast?" South Carolina, Georgia, Florida and Arkansas are all part of the Eastern United States.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
How would these schools build perennial powerhouse programs if the sport wasnt that popular out there?
We also have Lacrosse powerhouses. That doesn't mean the sport is as popular as basketball.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
If you truly believe that kids magically quit soccer for different reasons than they quit other activities then you are a clueless.
Try backing your statements up with a link at least. Please find me an article that says that 80 percent of kids quit playing basketball at 13.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
Why is the MLS still expanding while the NBA and NHL have recently considered contraction?
LOL. You're right! In 15 years, soccer will go from affluent, white kid (immigrant) sport to a sport of the masses. Conversations in barbershops will no longer revolve around Lebron James slam dunks and Devin Hester touchdowns but instead headers and scissor kicks.
 
Old 06-25-2012, 12:17 PM
 
Location: yeah
5,716 posts, read 14,582,491 times
Reputation: 2829
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Not. Soccer is still a white, middle to upper-middle class sport that's made virtually no inroads into working-class and inner city America.
If the rest of your post didn't indicate you're speaking from inside a bubble, this really hammers it home.
 
Old 06-25-2012, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
5,763 posts, read 9,754,815 times
Reputation: 2809
Quote:
Originally Posted by krudmonk View Post
If the rest of your post didn't indicate you're speaking from inside a bubble, this really hammers it home.
Speaking or even living inside a bubble pretty much sums it up.
 
Old 06-25-2012, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,272 posts, read 26,286,355 times
Reputation: 11734
Quote:
Originally Posted by krudmonk View Post
If the rest of your post didn't indicate you're speaking from inside a bubble, this really hammers it home.
What are you talking about? This is the president of the USSF talking:

Quote:
As most American soccer players departed Italy after their first-round elimination from the World Cup finals, the president of the United States Soccer Federation suggested that soccer in America must move to interest black inner-city youths and include them in what is predominantly a suburban white sport.
If I'm in a bubble, then apparently so is he. And so are the other 50,000 bloggers who say the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
Speaking or even living inside a bubble pretty much sums it up.
Yep. I just happen to be from the largest, most diverse, and most cosmopolitan "bubble" in the United States. But I guess we haven't reached Kansas City's level of sophistication yet.
 
Old 06-25-2012, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
5,763 posts, read 9,754,815 times
Reputation: 2809
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
\

Yep. I just happen to be from the largest, most diverse, and most cosmopolitan "bubble" in the United States. But I guess we haven't reached Kansas City's level of sophistication yet.
Our conversation was fine until you claimed that kids dont quit football and basketball but quit soccer. When it is common sense that kids quit all activities all the time. My oldest daughter just quit gymnastics despite being offered a spot in an Olympic training program. She wanted to do something else. She has also played soccer, danced, played guitar and quit all three. She is now on Karate. Kids quit activities constantly for different reasons, no one with any sense needs stats to show them that. Soccer is no different than anything else.

You also claim that you didnt know Philadelphia had a soccer team. I have a hard time believing that someone from Philadelphia wouldnt know a major league sports team came to town and built a new stadium. Union fans I spoken with also say that the Union get their fair share of press. So either you are lying to aid your argument or you live in a bubble.

Yes, soccer needs to tap the inner cities more but that doesnt mean it isnt growing rapidly. The NFL also has an issue reaching certain markets as does the NBA and NHL. Any business in this world has demographics that they have trouble reaching. That isnt anything specific to US Soccer or MLS, that is just business overall. Unless you are Wal-Mart, Home Depot, or McDonald's, you could do better reaching certain demographics.
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