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Old 03-15-2013, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Tejas
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Use the forks luke!

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Old 03-15-2013, 06:10 PM
 
270 posts, read 214,641 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JD47john View Post
I apologise master Yoda. May the force be with you.
And the farce with you as well.
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Old 03-17-2013, 04:01 AM
 
1,496 posts, read 1,499,858 times
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I've been watching a lot of MLS the last few years and I think the quality of the league is getting better each year. However, they get several things wrong in how they go about the league and it hurts them with the traditional fan base of the sport. First off, the are modeling the league after other American sports instead of modeling it after other soccer leagues around the globe. MLS has 19 teams and 10 of them make playoffs. So there is this NBA/NHL feel to the regular season where its all about lining up for playoff seeding. That's not how the most successful soccer leagues do it around the globe. And so its no wonder that the regular season in MLS is so uneventful and does so poorly TV ratings wise.

Personally i'd like to see a regular season league title separate from any post-season tournament. Most soccer fans I talk to prefer this as well.

Then there is the whole single entity stuff with MLS actually being the majority owner in every team. The league office, not the teams, hold all the contracts and determine what players go where. This is a little too phony for a lot of people. And the fact that there is no free agency also doesn't sit well with a lot of soccer fans i talk to. I mean how many soccer leagues are on the globe? It's a global game with dozens and dozens of league in big countries, small countries, pretty much every country. And in America we need a league that is centrally controlled? You can see why the owners would want it; they can control costs. But for the growth of the game in this country its really bad.

Those are just a couple things that annoy me about MLS. I'll still tune in to watch but it could be a lot better if they just decided to be soccer and stopped trying to copy the NFL or NBA.
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Old 03-18-2013, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
5,763 posts, read 9,745,445 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldous9 View Post
I've been watching a lot of MLS the last few years and I think the quality of the league is getting better each year. However, they get several things wrong in how they go about the league and it hurts them with the traditional fan base of the sport. First off, the are modeling the league after other American sports instead of modeling it after other soccer leagues around the globe. MLS has 19 teams and 10 of them make playoffs. So there is this NBA/NHL feel to the regular season where its all about lining up for playoff seeding. That's not how the most successful soccer leagues do it around the globe. And so its no wonder that the regular season in MLS is so uneventful and does so poorly TV ratings wise.

Personally i'd like to see a regular season league title separate from any post-season tournament. Most soccer fans I talk to prefer this as well.
It is seperate. The regular season winner gets the Supporter's Shield and the winner of the playoffs is the MLS Cup Champion.

The playoff races have been exciting the last few years. Last year, there were 16 of 19 teams still in the playoff race up until the last couple of weeks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldous9 View Post
Then there is the whole single entity stuff with MLS actually being the majority owner in every team. The league office, not the teams, hold all the contracts and determine what players go where. This is a little too phony for a lot of people. And the fact that there is no free agency also doesn't sit well with a lot of soccer fans i talk to. I mean how many soccer leagues are on the globe? It's a global game with dozens and dozens of league in big countries, small countries, pretty much every country. And in America we need a league that is centrally controlled? You can see why the owners would want it; they can control costs. But for the growth of the game in this country its really bad.

Those are just a couple things that annoy me about MLS. I'll still tune in to watch but it could be a lot better if they just decided to be soccer and stopped trying to copy the NFL or NBA.

This statement is foolishness and shows an apparent lack of knowledge regarding the business of sports and MLS history. The single-entity system is the ONLY reason that MLS is still around. Without it, the league would have folded by 2002.

The single entity system ensures financial stability for the league as a whole and ensures that individual teams remain solvent as well.

The league does not decide which players go where. The league does hold the contracts and pay the player salaries (except for DP salaries beyond 358k) There is an allocation system for certain types of players coming into the league but those spots are often traded among teams if a player and a team have a mutual interest in another. However, as time has passed, this system has been used far less frequent. Regardless, the league doesnt make a decision on where the player goes, there is a list maintained and the next team on the list gets the incoming player unless the team passes or a team trades away the spot to another team. More often than not, a team and a player have joint interest and a deal is made. The only time the allocation is used is when a player from the NT pools comes into MLS or a player who got transferred to another country returns and their rights are not owned by a team. It is also used when a player who would have been in the MLS college draft choose to go overseas and comes back to MLS when it doesnt work out. MLS free agency is done via the re-entry draft. They do not have traditional free agency due to the collective bargaining agreement. The free agency system may change as the league and more teams move closer to profitablity and the salary cap increases.

Comparing MLS to the other leagues around the world doesnt work. MLS is only 18 years old whereas leagues around the world are over 100 years old. Also, business is different in the US than Europe or South America. That's like comparing a locally owned, independent book store to Barnes and Noble.

How many teams in Europe are in financial ruin? How many are on the verge of bankruptcy? How many are in debt up to their ears?

MLS teams arent in that position. Many are still not profitable but they are still solvent and are making steps toward profitability. The single entity system ensures that. Most fans do not see the workings of the single entity system from the outside so I am not sure why many would comment on it. This is why the MLS system has caught the attention of soccer teams and leagues all over the globe. MLS is one of the reasons that leagues like the EPL are going to start using a wage cap.

It is not bad for growth in this country because MLS is growing at a strong and healthy pace. If it were bad, it would not have seen significant strides over the last decade which has lead it to be a force in the American sports landscape.

The owners of the team are also owners of the league. It's not like MLS is the boss and the owners are subordinates. The owners of the league in addition to the MLS executive team are the operators of MLS. They have a board and make decisions as a group. The single entity system allows them more financial stability. Many of these owners have lost tens of millions of dollars by owning a team.
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Old 03-18-2013, 04:15 PM
 
1,496 posts, read 1,499,858 times
Reputation: 1212
Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
It is seperate. The regular season winner gets the Supporter's Shield and the winner of the playoffs is the MLS Cup Champion.

The playoff races have been exciting the last few years. Last year, there were 16 of 19 teams still in the playoff race up until the last couple of weeks.
No it is not separate. The league champ is the playoff winner. The Supporters Shield winner is not considered the winner of the league. It's just a token trophy.

What I'm talking about is separating the competitions and marketing the league title as the league winner.

No one is watching these games on TV. The MLS Cup final got practically zero ratings.

I support LA Galaxy but even LAG can't get a TV audience.



Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
This statement is foolishness and shows an apparent lack of knowledge regarding the business of sports and MLS history. The single-entity system is the ONLY reason that MLS is still around. Without it, the league would have folded by 2002.

The single entity system ensures financial stability for the league as a whole and ensures that individual teams remain solvent as well.

The league does not decide which players go where. The league does hold the contracts and pay the player salaries (except for DP salaries beyond 358k) There is an allocation system for certain types of players coming into the league but those spots are often traded among teams if a player and a team have a mutual interest in another. However, as time has passed, this system has been used far less frequent. Regardless, the league doesnt make a decision on where the player goes, there is a list maintained and the next team on the list gets the incoming player unless the team passes or a team trades away the spot to another team. More often than not, a team and a player have joint interest and a deal is made. The only time the allocation is used is when a player from the NT pools comes into MLS or a player who got transferred to another country returns and their rights are not owned by a team. It is also used when a player who would have been in the MLS college draft choose to go overseas and comes back to MLS when it doesnt work out. MLS free agency is done via the re-entry draft. They do not have traditional free agency due to the collective bargaining agreement. The free agency system may change as the league and more teams move closer to profitablity and the salary cap increases.

Comparing MLS to the other leagues around the world doesnt work. MLS is only 18 years old whereas leagues around the world are over 100 years old. Also, business is different in the US than Europe or South America. That's like comparing a locally owned, independent book store to Barnes and Noble.

How many teams in Europe are in financial ruin? How many are on the verge of bankruptcy? How many are in debt up to their ears?

MLS teams arent in that position. Many are still not profitable but they are still solvent and are making steps toward profitability. The single entity system ensures that. Most fans do not see the workings of the single entity system from the outside so I am not sure why many would comment on it. This is why the MLS system has caught the attention of soccer teams and leagues all over the globe. MLS is one of the reasons that leagues like the EPL are going to start using a wage cap.

It is not bad for growth in this country because MLS is growing at a strong and healthy pace. If it were bad, it would not have seen significant strides over the last decade which has lead it to be a force in the American sports landscape.

The owners of the team are also owners of the league. It's not like MLS is the boss and the owners are subordinates. The owners of the league in addition to the MLS executive team are the operators of MLS. They have a board and make decisions as a group. The single entity system allows them more financial stability. Many of these owners have lost tens of millions of dollars by owning a team.
Look. This is why I hesitated getting into this conversation. I knew some MLS-snob would pull the "you're ignorant card."

I have studied the MLS single entity system. I know what i'm talking about. It is not needed. There are almost 100 soccer leagues on the planet. How many of them have single entity other than MLS? 1?

The league does decide what players a team can sign. Here is an example where MLS prevented Toronto FC from signing a player they wanted to sign:
Toronto FC’s hands tied by meddling MLS: Kelly | Toronto Star

The fact is that MLS has set up a system that goes against how the global game is played around the world. All of these things they do: single entity, no free agency, salary cap etc are not needed. Anyone with half a brain can do a compare and contrast analysis and see this. And soccer fans see this. And thats why American soccer fans have rejected MLS.

And again with the bogus European teams are in financial ruin crap.Most European clubs and most Euro leagues don't have this problem. And with financial fair play you will see less of it. The clubs that do have financial problems have either brought it on by themselves (and they get punished for it by being relegated) or they have billionaire owners who don't care how much they spend. Then there is the case of Man United who are in debt only because their owner did a hostile takeover and then dumped all his debt on the club.

I'm not saying Europe does not have a problem in this regard. It's just not a legitimate argument for keeping MLS as a single entity league. There are dozens of leagues from J-League to Bundesliga to the Dutch league that do not have these financial problems.
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Old 03-18-2013, 04:21 PM
 
3,722 posts, read 3,878,758 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mos1992 View Post
Why most sports fans (non soccer fans) in the US hate the MLS and hate the MLS supporter groups? I think the supporter groups if they support all city teams will improve results, create atmosphere and of course increase ticket sales.
I don't think people are hating the MLS, rather the sport. By and large, Americans do not follow soccer the way most of the rest of the world does.

The MLS has to constantly fight for relevance and when you have people touting attendance statistics as a true measure of its popularity, you're going to get some backlash.
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:22 PM
JJG
 
Location: Fort Worth
13,247 posts, read 19,176,091 times
Reputation: 7005
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAM88 View Post
I don't think people are hating the MLS, rather the sport. By and large, Americans do not follow soccer the way most of the rest of the world does.

The MLS has to constantly fight for relevance and when you have people touting attendance statistics as a true measure of its popularity, you're going to get some backlash.
I really don't understand why people don't get this.

Soccer isn't really hated. It's just, when it comes to the sport on a professional level, at least half the country is indifferent to it.

The MLS is (at BEST) #4. I know hockey heads will disagree, and really, it's close enough for me to understand why they would. But MLS just isn't EPL or Bundesliga.
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:24 PM
JJG
 
Location: Fort Worth
13,247 posts, read 19,176,091 times
Reputation: 7005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldous9 View Post




Look. This is why I hesitated getting into this conversation. I knew some MLS-snob would pull the "you're ignorant card."
Then why even bring it up?

P.S., I had no idea of an "MLS-snob" existing...
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:35 PM
 
Location: Fairfax, Va
245 posts, read 256,067 times
Reputation: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAM88 View Post
I don't think people are hating the MLS, rather the sport. By and large, Americans do not follow soccer the way most of the rest of the world does.

The MLS has to constantly fight for relevance and when you have people touting attendance statistics as a true measure of its popularity, you're going to get some backlash.
It dosen't matter if you follow it or not, the people who don't follow it reject the idea of supporters group and its expansion to other sports.
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Tejas
7,550 posts, read 16,386,697 times
Reputation: 5087
I know right JJG, were all usually too drunk to be snobs!!! I wish ...
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