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Do you think they could still legitimately be in the discussion for greatest player ever with guys like Pele and Maradona? Or would they need to win the ultimate prize for their countries in to truly compare?
No, they can't win the world cup on their own. The stats speak for themselves............ they are two of the greatest footballers to ever play the game.
For me, yes, you do need to win the world cup to be considered the all-time greatest. Well okay, maybe not if the player concerning was born in a country that had absolutely no shot at winning the cup. If you were, like George Weah, born in Liberia or something.
Anyway, for me, Maradona's skills still trump Messi's. With a team not half as good as today's Argentina, he won the World Cup in 1986. Napoli also weren't a phenomenal side in the late eighties (except for the then still young Gianfranco Zola). Yet, with Maradona in the team, they won 2 scudetto's and an UEFA cup.
I'd love to see Messi play in another team, with a different football style. Just to see what he can do.
In my view Messi is the greatest player of all time. I base it on talent and not silverware and I can say that Messi is the greatest player I have ever seen.
Of course it would be amazing to win the world cup for your country but a lot of the guys that did win it and considered the best, have done it in a great team. Brazil were a great team in 1970 when Pele played and they won the world cup.
Is it not fair to say that to be considered the best you have to win the Champions League? What do you guys think? I think that its only fair. If you have to win the ultimate prize on the international stage, then why not at club level to?
In my view Messi is the greatest player of all time. I base it on talent and not silverware and I can say that Messi is the greatest player I have ever seen.
Of course it would be amazing to win the world cup for your country but a lot of the guys that did win it and considered the best, have done it in a great team. Brazil were a great team in 1970 when Pele played and they won the world cup.
Is it not fair to say that to be considered the best you have to win the Champions League? What do you guys think? I think that its only fair. If you have to win the ultimate prize on the international stage, then why not at club level to?
As a US based fan it's interesting for me to read this, as that's basically the opposite mentality of American sports fans I'll have to start a thread about that.
But to answer your question, I think in this modern age of globalization in football, I would consider being a top contributor on a Champions League winning squad to be a key requirement.
The game is so much different now. Players are faster, more skilled. I think players ranked as "good" today could go back 25-35 years and dominate. The time when one player could carry a squad is long gone.
Not sure if they would dominate Bond, heavier balls (footballs get your mind out of the gutter!!) and a lot more physical of a game 35 years ago too. The pansies that dive everytime a blade of grass hits them *cough* Ronaldo *cough* Suarez etc etc would be battered out of the game 35 years ago.
Are they more skillful ? Sure. But to say they would dominate I dont think they would. Not if youre just taking Ronaldo and dropping them into a 1978 Liverpool team he wouldnt be able to compete physically. He wouldnt get free kicks and penos like he does now. Its too hard to compare X and Y. You just go with your gut. My gut says Messi is better than Maradonna.
No player has ever won a World Cup. Messi and Ronaldo cannot win a World Cup. They can be on TEAMS that win but they cant do it.
How can you judge an individual player on a team accomplishment? A player can only do so much. They can have the best tournament in WC history for a player and the team still not win.
Messi is a phenomenal player, the statistics of his career speak for themselves. In my opinion it's immaterial whether or not he is in a team that wins the World Cup.
Winning a World Cup is very hard to do considering the number of teams involved and the fact the most players only get 2-3 shots in their career. Both of those guys are probably the best of this generation. They both have been leaders on Champions League winning squads. They are among the all time greatest players no doubt.
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I'll have to start a thread about that.
