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Old 10-17-2013, 03:33 AM
 
Location: SE UK
7,817 posts, read 6,642,259 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SophieLL View Post
If i have post like this in an argentinian soccer forum, i would have get all kinds of comments too. Here it is "in" to criticize our NT cause the truth is that we are ALWAYS favourites to win it all, we ALWAYS have world class players, and we ALWAYS are seeded/top 3 in the bets to win it all, etc, but in the end.......we lose in quarterfinals (mostly against germany). So i guess this created an skepticism towards the NT, EVEN when this team is clearly the best one in the last 20 years at least. I mean, when we had Maradona (and then Battista) we did SO BAD with outstanding players, we almost didnt make it, etc and in this country people live and breather soccer, so it was hard to take: losing to GER in wc2010, losing Copa America at home in 2011.

But the truth is, since Sabella took the team, everything has change drastically, Argentina is playing at their true potential (wich was always great, cause the current generation of players is brilliant), Messi has been scoring millions of goals for the NT, and is now FIRST in ranking of the argentinians socrers in HISTORY (ahead of Crespo even!), he is playing like a GOD, and his forwards friends are doing it too: Higuain (scoring also tons of goals himself), Aguero, the great Di Maria. Our mildfield looks solid with Mascherano and Gago, who work together really well, and Garay-Fernandez have constructed a good defense considering we recieve very few goals in the qualys and score tons of them,

Our road in the qualys has been impressive, we only lost once, and it always seemed easy. When i watch this team, i feel something i havent feel since forever: i feel like its easy. Watching Argentina play always was very stressfull cause you felt like we could lose anytime. With this team, is always comfortable: those guys always seem in control and they have SUCH amazing attack, that you know everytime they get to the net, is highly probable they will score. And mostly they do. So we won the qualys comfortably, qualified early, also won our friendlies against powerful teams in europe, Messi is playing like a god, everything is functioning....it is the first time in, i dont know, since Italy 90, that we could be saying: HELL WE ARE WINNING IT ALL! Cause, the world cup is in Brazil!!! Almost like if it is at home! We have THAT advantage too!!! Thousands of Argentines are gonna be there! we are gonna be locals! Messi is in his prime!!

we could be all saying "we are gonna win it all"!!!! but you know what this country of pessimist says???? "WE ARE GONNA LOSE IN QUARTERFINALS" "WE WONT MAKE IT OUT OF THE GROUP" and all kinds of crazy talk like that. Heck, argentina is favourite in every other country, in every international newspaper or soccer page, for the bookies and the fifa ranking, etc, EXCEPT in argentina


so, yeah, my exxagerated optimism is to counteract the exxagerated pessimism i have to deal with in my own country. I wish we could go ahead and say "WE ARE THE BEST!". Hell, countries that in no way have our level are saying "we are the best!" (you hear it a lot from chileans, colombians and uruguayans) but argentinians dont wanna say it, they dont wanna get burn again.

But i say: WE WONT GET BURNED, cause this time is different! This time we have everything to believe we will win it, and we will!

so, excuse my optimism, its probably the only place in where i can say my real feelings without getting that argentinain trademark pessimism that im tired of!
No need to be 'excused' Sophie - there is nothing wrong with your optimism at all! Its nice to see, I'm just saying that if an Englishman or Englishwoman was to show this kind of feeling towards the English team they would get several dozen pages of people claiming that ALL English are arrogant and that the English can only play long-ball and that the English team is actually the worst team in the history of the world ever lol :-D
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Old 10-17-2013, 04:40 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
2,942 posts, read 4,392,564 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
No need to be 'excused' Sophie - there is nothing wrong with your optimism at all! Its nice to see, I'm just saying that if an Englishman or Englishwoman was to show this kind of feeling towards the English team they would get several dozen pages of people claiming that ALL English are arrogant and that the English can only play long-ball and that the English team is actually the worst team in the history of the world ever lol :-D
Then again, Argentina is one of the best teams in the world so it wouldn't be arrogant to say so. It would be different if you or I would be claiming that our teams are clear favourites to win the WC.

Anyway, here's the new FIFA ranking published today, no surprises:

1 Spain 1513 0
2 Germany 1311 1
3 Argentina 1266 -1
4 Colombia 1178 1
5 Belgium 1175 1
6 Uruguay 1164 1
7 Switzerland 1138 7
8 Netherlands 1136 1
8 Italy 1136 -4
10 England 1080 7
11 Brazil 1078 -3
12 Chile 1051 4
13 USA 1040 0
14 Portugal 1036 -3
15 Greece 983 -3
16 Bosnia-Herzegovina 925 2
17 Cte d'Ivoire 917 2
18 Croatia 901 -8
19 Russia 874 -4
20 Ukraine 871 6
21 France 870 4
22 Ecuador 862 -2
23 Ghana 860 1
24 Mexico 854 -3
25 Sweden 850 -3
26 Denmark 824 -3
27 Czech Republic 783 5
28 Serbia 778 15
29 Romania 767 2
30 Slovenia 752 -1

Quote:
The distribution of teams in Pot 1 for the World Cup Final Draw on 6 December is as follows: Brazil, together with Spain, Germany, Argentina, Colombia, Belgium and Switzerland are definitely in Pot 1. If Uruguay win the intercontinental play-off against Jordan, they will also go into the first pot. However, if Jordan win, the decimal points difference between the Netherlands (1135.95) and Italy (1135.61) will see the Dutch take the last place in Pot 1.

This latest FIFA/Coca-Cola World Ranking has also determined which teams will be seeded for the European play-off draw for Brazil 2014, which will take place at the Home of FIFA in Zurich on Monday, 21 October at 14.00 CET.

The distribution of teams in Pot 1 for the European play-off draw will be the four highest-positioned teams, which are confirmed as follows: Portugal, Greece, Croatia and Ukraine. Pot 2 will include France, Sweden, Romania and Iceland.
Pot 1 seeds set for Brazil 2014 draws - FIFA.com
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Old 10-17-2013, 05:58 AM
 
Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands
10,424 posts, read 12,425,000 times
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the Netherlands and Italy/England should be in Pot 1 instead of Uruguay and Switzerland imo.
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Old 10-17-2013, 07:51 AM
 
Location: USA
584 posts, read 909,047 times
Reputation: 443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post
great rant by the Mexican announcer last night - here is a bit of translation

wonder if these means the end of urine & battery projectiles down there

[/color][/LEFT]

Not likely.
As well as the "PUUUTOOOO" yells by the fans at Azteca/mexican stadiums every time the visiting team's keeper does/takes a goal kick.

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Old 10-17-2013, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Belgium
1,173 posts, read 1,674,740 times
Reputation: 1413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post
great rant by the Mexican announcer last night - here is a bit of translation

wonder if these means the end of urine & battery projectiles down there

[/color][/LEFT]
woa, it cuts deep apparently .
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Old 10-17-2013, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
5,899 posts, read 8,419,380 times
Reputation: 4366
Quote:
Originally Posted by LindavG View Post
There is no way CONMEBOL deserve more spots at the WC and certainly not ahead of UEFA.

Look, CONMEBOL only gets 4.5 spots (this time and only this time is one more cause Brazil is host, but this advantage is given to every continent in where WC is played), while Africa gets 5 (?????????????), Asia gets THE SAME AS CONMEBOL, 4.5 and CONCACAF gets 3.5 (????????)!!! I mean you do realize that of 19 world cups 9 HAVE BEEN WON BY CONMEBOL???

One can argue if Conmebol or UEFA is better, but one CAN NOT argue than conmebol is FAR FAR AHEAD of those confeds i mentioned. CONMEBOL haves 3 teams in the top 10 fifa ranking, while Brazil and Chile are in spot 11 and 12. Argentina and Brazil are world class, Uruguay and Colombia are seeds and top 10 teams, Chile everyone can agree could beat any european team in a good day. I mean, CONMEBOL have been exceeding in the sport since it was invented, has dominated the sport until recent times (while UEFA got the upper hand when they won WC2010) and it always excells at the world cup (dont forget last time EVERY CONMEBOL TEAM that qualified got out of their groups and made the round of 16, while 4 teams (Arg-Bra-Uru-Par) made the quarterfinals and one the semis), but WE GET THE SAME SPOTS AS ASIA??? FEWER SPOTS THAN AFRICA?? almost same spots and concacaf???

what have those confederation have given to the sport?
nothing

what have conmebol have given to the sport??
everything


so, yes, conmebol should at least get 2 more spots, one should be taken from asia, and other from concacaf or africa. Maybe one of those should also go to europe. I just dont understand how a team that wins 2 games out of 10 in a weak confed like CONCACAF makes it (and Panama would have make it if it wasnt for USA, winning only 1 out of 10) and VENEZUELA doesnt make it.

Heck, Uruguay, confed cup semifinalist, world cup semifinalist, copa america champion, WOULDNT HAVE MADE IT, if we were getting our regular 4.5 spots and Brazil wasnt automaticly in.

I mean, for goddsake, last wc Uruguay didnt make it in CONMEBOL qualys, had to play the playoff against Costa Rica and then reached the semis. This Qualy Paraguay finished LAST in conmebol and then went and tied with GERMANY.


I mean the quality of CONMEBOL is much much higher than any other confederation and in reality they should all get automitcally qualified for the WC, but since thats impossible, they should at least get 2 more spots.
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:09 PM
 
Location: IL
2,992 posts, read 4,421,049 times
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The number of spots each confederation gets is not based on quality of the teams in that group, but on development of soccer/football around the world. I assume this same reasoning led to the awesome decision to host the 2022 WC in Qatar.
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
5,899 posts, read 8,419,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by almost3am View Post
The number of spots each confederation gets is not based on quality of the teams in that group, but on development of soccer/football around the world. I assume this same reasoning led to the awesome decision to host the 2022 WC in Qatar.
Yeah you got that right, maybe.
I hate the decision of hosting in Qatar, tbh.

But its kind of frustrating that really good teams keep being left out of the WC cause the spots by confederation are so screwed up.
I mean, PARAGUAY, for example, is last in conmebol qualys, and thats the same team that ALMOT BEAT SPAIN in last WC (they lost by penalties, but where clearly dominating the whole game) and recently played against germany and also tied. But in CONMEBOL qualys, they suck. why? cause conmebol qualys are super hard.

Uruguay case might be the better example: they didnt make it to the WC last time (2010) and had to go play the playoffs to get in, and then reached the semis.

CONMEBOL keeps getting screwed up with this hard qualy. COLOMBIA just made it this year after god knows how many years, CHILE also spent lot of years without qualifying and i could go on.....


But then Honduras, Panama, etc have it easy.


I understand in the WORLD cup the whole world should have representatives. But when one confederation is so much more competitive than the other ones, maybe some measures should be taken. Im not against a merge between CONMEBOL and CONCACAF or CONMEBOL and any other confed, for that matter. You put all those spots for grabs and the best teams get it. That way it would be more fair.
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Old 10-17-2013, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Miami,FL
2,891 posts, read 3,290,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SophieLL View Post
Yeah you got that right, maybe.
I hate the decision of hosting in Qatar, tbh.

But its kind of frustrating that really good teams keep being left out of the WC cause the spots by confederation are so screwed up.
I mean, PARAGUAY, for example, is last in conmebol qualys, and thats the same team that ALMOT BEAT SPAIN in last WC (they lost by penalties, but where clearly dominating the whole game) and recently played against germany and also tied. But in CONMEBOL qualys, they suck. why? cause conmebol qualys are super hard.

Uruguay case might be the better example: they didnt make it to the WC last time (2010) and had to go play the playoffs to get in, and then reached the semis.

CONMEBOL keeps getting screwed up with this hard qualy. COLOMBIA just made it this year after god knows how many years, CHILE also spent lot of years without qualifying and i could go on.....


But then Honduras, Panama, etc have it easy.

I understand in the WORLD cup the whole world should have representatives. But when one confederation is so much more competitive than the other ones, maybe some measures should be taken. Im not against a merge between CONMEBOL and CONCACAF or CONMEBOL and any other confed, for that matter. You put all those spots for grabs and the best teams get it. That way it would be more fair.
I like that idea. Concacaf has had it way to easy, so has asia and africa. Europe probably deserves another spot but the imbalance there is no where near as big as it is in south america.
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Old 10-17-2013, 04:44 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
2,942 posts, read 4,392,564 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SophieLL View Post
Look, CONMEBOL only gets 4.5 spots (this time and only this time is one more cause Brazil is host, but this advantage is given to every continent in where WC is played), while Africa gets 5 (?????????????), Asia gets THE SAME AS CONMEBOL, 4.5 and CONCACAF gets 3.5 (????????)!!!
The difference is that Africa and Asia have over 50 countries and 80% of the world's population. You cannot have a World Cup when most of the world has no chance of representing itself. CONMEBOL have only 10 members and half of them qualify for the World Cup, I think that's more than enough. I might change my mind when teams other than Brazil and Argentina start to become serious contenders for the title, but that hasn't been the case in over four decades (and don't even mention Uruguay's fluke SF last time which they stole from Ghana).

Quote:
I mean you do realize that of 19 world cups 9 HAVE BEEN WON BY CONMEBOL???
Do you realise that for CONMEBOL to have won 19 World Cups means it has won every single World Cup since 1938? Actually, CONMEBOL have won 9 World Cups and the last time someone other than Brazil or Argentina won it was in 1950 (Uruguay).

Edit: Oops, I misread. Well, my point about Brazil and Argentina winning all of those World Cups since 1950 still stands. In that same time period, five different European countries won the WC (Germany, England, Italy, France, Spain) and The Netherlands played in three finals and one semi-final. It demonstrates the difference in depth.

Quote:
One can argue if Conmebol or UEFA is better, but one CAN NOT argue than conmebol is FAR FAR AHEAD of those confeds i mentioned. CONMEBOL haves 3 teams in the top 10 fifa ranking, while Brazil and Chile are in spot 11 and 12. Argentina and Brazil are world class, Uruguay and Colombia are seeds and top 10 teams, Chile everyone can agree could beat any european team in a good day. I mean, CONMEBOL have been exceeding in the sport since it was invented, has dominated the sport until recent times (while UEFA got the upper hand when they won WC2010) and it always excells at the world cup (dont forget last time EVERY CONMEBOL TEAM that qualified got out of their groups and made the round of 16, while 4 teams (Arg-Bra-Uru-Par) made the quarterfinals and one the semis), but WE GET THE SAME SPOTS AS ASIA??? FEWER SPOTS THAN AFRICA?? almost same spots and concacaf???
It's not a matter of opinion. UEFA is objectively the better confederation based on actual results in the World Cup. Like I said, 25 out of 32 semi-finalists in the past 8 WC came from UEFA. CONMEBOL had 6 semi-finalists but in 5 of those cases it was Brazil or Argentina. On what basis should CONMEBOL deserve more seeds then? If CONMEBOL teams are really as great as you say they are, why don't they show it in competitive matches against other teams? You mention Chile, well Chile have never made it past the first KO round at the WC except for 1962, when they were hosting it. What makes you so confident that they can beat any top European team on a good day? Colombia's record is even worse, it only made it out of the group stage once in its history, in 1990, only to be eliminated in the first KO round. Same goes for Ecuador, only made it out of the group stage once in its history (in 2006) only to be eliminated in the first KO round. And while Paraguay made it to the QF last time, that is hardly representative for their average performance at the WC - it was the first time in Paraguay's history that they made it past the first KO round. I could go on and on (I'm sure I don't have to tell you about Peru, Bolivia or Venezuela).

I do not agree that CONMEBOL qualifiers are harder than UEFA's either. At least teams in CONMEBOL have the enormous luxury of being allowed to slip up here and there without instantly ruining their chances for qualification. Uruguay has only won 7 out of 16 matches and it is still able to qualify and even clinch a seeding position at the next WC. Same goes for Ecuador, which has already qualified despite winning only 7 matches and all of their wins were at home. Compare this to UEFA, where finishing second to Italy meant instant elimination for Denmark or where France will be unseeded at the play-offs because it finished second to Spain. Portugal only lost one game and it's in the play-offs. A team like Ecuador could never make it in Europe because home advantage alone will not be enough to ensure qualification. I know people from other continents (esp. South Americans) love to portray the UEFA qualifying groups as one big team beating up on a bunch of minnows a la San Marino but the reality couldn't be further from the truth.

Quote:
so, yes, conmebol should at least get 2 more spots, one should be taken from asia, and other from concacaf or africa. Maybe one of those should also go to europe. I just dont understand how a team that wins 2 games out of 10 in a weak confed like CONCACAF makes it (and Panama would have make it if it wasnt for USA, winning only 1 out of 10) and VENEZUELA doesnt make it.
I think a better idea would be to merge CONMEBOL and CONCACAF and have one confederation for the Americas. It would have about as many members as UEFA, CAF or AFC. Then you can add the number of allocated spots together as well and the US, Mexico, Honduras etc. will really have to earn their place at the WC.

Quote:
Heck, Uruguay, confed cup semifinalist, world cup semifinalist, copa america champion, WOULDNT HAVE MADE IT, if we were getting our regular 4.5 spots and Brazil wasnt automaticly in.

I mean, for goddsake, last wc Uruguay didnt make it in CONMEBOL qualys, had to play the playoff against Costa Rica and then reached the semis. This Qualy Paraguay finished LAST in conmebol and then went and tied with GERMANY.
We all know how Uruguay reached those semi's and it wasn't by their impressive play. Uruguay got thrashed 3-1 as soon as they met a decent opponent (although they were gifted a penalty in the last minute of extra time to make the result seem closer than it really was). Nobody in Europe cares about the Confederations Cup - in fact, I'm sure if you asked the average person on the street they wouldn't even know what it is. I've been watching international football for years but the first time I heard about the Confederations Cup was in 2006. The only tournaments that matter here are the Euro and the WC, almost on an equal basis.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think CONMEBOL is bad. It is by far the best confederation after UEFA. Brazil and Argentina are two of the greatest teams in the history of football. I just think it is massively overhyped by South Americans, which is especially annoying when they downplay UEFA in the process. As soon as South American teams other than Brazil and Argentina start getting consistent good results at the WC (= at least QF) I will reconsider my opinion.

Edit: I hadn't read your last post yet. Glad we at least agree on merging CONMEBOL and CONCACAF

Last edited by LindavG; 10-17-2013 at 04:59 PM..
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