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Old 10-18-2013, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Scotland
7,972 posts, read 10,100,406 times
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Rational goes out the window when it comes to football, we stick up for our own. But Europe has more depth of quality which is plain to see to the rational mind!
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Old 10-18-2013, 03:52 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
2,942 posts, read 4,395,221 times
Reputation: 3402
Quote:
Originally Posted by SophieLL View Post
The main argument is that the level is too high, even the WORST (see Paraguay) team is super hard to play, and we get LESS spots than UEFA, ASIA and AFRICA. While CONCACAF also gets too many spots for what they do?
If your argument is that the level of football is too high, Ecuador and Bolivia aren't exactly good examples. You admitted yourself that the reason these teams are hard to play at home have nothing to do with football.

Quote:
dont you agree CONMEBOL should get more spots than ASIA or AFRICA? dont you understand than in CONCACAF Mexico won 1 game out of 10 and is almost in the world cup? Panama almost made it? Honduras and Costa Rica are in? Australia is in? Iran? Russia? ppppf whatever

and Paraguay, Venezuela, Peru are not. Of course its unfair. The worst southamerican team is a 100 times better than the worst team from EVERY other confederations. A millon times better.
No, I don't agree and I already explained why. Asia and Africa together comprise over 100 countries and 80% of the world's population. You can't have a World Cup and exclude them. If you want to see South American teams in action, watch the Copa America.

I'm also not convinced that having more South American teams at the WC adds anything substantial. Apart from BRA/ARG/URU none of them have ever been serious contenders for the title in the past 50 years; almost without exception they crash in the group stage or first KO round. If this is really about quality, UEFA has a far better case that the amount of berths relative to quality is unfair. Look at the teams that may miss out on the WC: France, Portugal, Croatia, Sweden - all teams that made it to at least the SF in the recent past. I don't want more European teams at the WC though because I understand that this is a global event.
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Old 10-18-2013, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Miami,FL
2,891 posts, read 3,293,301 times
Reputation: 683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
WTF? CONMEBOL has 10 members, UEFA has 54. In case you didn't know, the games against San Marino doesn't matter, as due to different sizes of the groups, games against the worst don't count.
The CONMEBOL group this year had a 50% of qualifying, and 56% of qualifying OR getting to the ridiculous playoffs against New Zealand. If Europe would have the same percentage, 30 teams from Europe would qualify to the WC. In all groups the chance for qualifying directly from UEFA was 20%.

I seriously would want to know how Bolivia would do in a Spain, France, Finland, Belarus, Georgia, Bolivia group. My gut says they've finish last.
they would finish 3rd or 4th. don't forget spain and france would still have to play in la paz.
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Old 10-18-2013, 04:04 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
2,942 posts, read 4,395,221 times
Reputation: 3402
Quote:
Originally Posted by SophieLL View Post
this is actually pretty easy to prove, with fifa rankings, elo rankings, the ranking you want.

Use it to do an average of CONMEBOL teams and compare them to ANY confederation and you will see how unfair it is for us to have to play this super hard teams to get into the WC every four years.

Im not even asking for more spots alone, but a MERGE. MERGE conmebol with asia, africa, oceania (?), concacaf, and put the spots for grabs, thus giving the stronger teams (aka conmebol teams) more chances to make it.
The FIFA ranking should not be used to prove anything because it's a farce. Unfortunately, FIFA decided to base the seedings for the next WC on it so we'll see Belgium, Colombia and Switzerland in pot 1 instead of the Netherlands and Italy.

Anyway, since you asked, let's look at the top 32 countries in the FIFA ranking (since there are 32 countries that qualify for the WC):

1 Spain 1513 0
2 Germany 1311 1
3 Argentina 1266 -1
4 Colombia 1178 1
5 Belgium 1175 1
6 Uruguay 1164 1
7 Switzerland 1138 7
8 Netherlands 1136 1
8 Italy 1136 -4
10 England 1080 7
11 Brazil 1078 -3
12 Chile 1051 4
13 USA 1040 0
14 Portugal 1036 -3
15 Greece 983 -3
16 Bosnia-Herzegovina 925 2
17 Côte d'Ivoire 917 2
18 Croatia 901 -8
19 Russia 874 -4
20 Ukraine 871 6
21 France 870 4
22 Ecuador 862 -2
23 Ghana 860 1
24 Mexico 854 -3
25 Sweden 850 -3
26 Denmark 824 -3
27 Czech Republic 783 5
28 Serbia 778 15
29 Romania 767 2
30 Slovenia 752 -1
31 Costa Rica 744 2
32 Algeria 741 -4

Six of these countries are South American, 20 of them are European. Based on these rankings, only 1 SA team misses out on the WC compared to 7 European teams.
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Old 10-18-2013, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Finland
24,268 posts, read 18,817,918 times
Reputation: 11103
Quote:
Originally Posted by miamihurricane555 View Post
they would finish 3rd or 4th. don't forget spain and france would still have to play in la paz.
If you give the factors as a benefit for the environmental and out-of-football conditions, how about playing a game with all the players food-poisoned?

Should the Afghan national football team be given an automatic qualifying place, as those guys truly play in really difficult conditions? It's not UEFA's fault that most of the world's a mess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LindavG View Post
snap
Best message in this thread ever. Sorry, but can't spread love at this time.
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Old 10-18-2013, 04:38 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
2,942 posts, read 4,395,221 times
Reputation: 3402
Quote:
Originally Posted by SophieLL View Post
And, heck, im from a country that ALWAYS gets into the world cup, im not even talking because im the one being damaged here. Argentina always make it. But it makes me sad that teams like Colombia and Ecuador havent been in WC since forever, and Venezuela has NEVER made it (if im not mistaken), and see a good team like Peru never being able to prove themselves internationally while CRAPPY teams from all over the world can.

Do you have any idea how much it must suck to be from Venezuela or Bolivia or Ecuador or Peru or even Colombia when you live and breathe soccer and seeing your dreams getting CRUSHED every 4 years??? and then seeing tons of teams inferior to you making it cause they have an easy qualifyer???
I'm from a country that (nearly) always qualifies too. In fact, we have the best record in Europe over the past three qualifying campaigns, winning 26 out of 28 games. For some reason, the system of playing competitive matches over an extended period of time suits us extremely well, which is why I think we would thrive in a confederation like CONMEBOL.

Likewise, I also feel bad for the European teams that finish right behind the top tier team in their group. Imagine being drawn in a group with Germany, Netherlands, Italy, Spain, France or England and knowing that you have to finish ahead of them in order to secure qualification. It almost seems like a hopeless task to begin with.
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Old 10-18-2013, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Finland
24,268 posts, read 18,817,918 times
Reputation: 11103
Quote:
Originally Posted by LindavG View Post
Likewise, I also feel bad for the European teams that finish right behind the top tier team in their group. Imagine being drawn in a group with Germany, Netherlands, Italy, Spain, France or England and knowing that you have to finish ahead of them in order to secure qualification. It almost seems like a hopeless task to begin with.
Another benefit for Ecuador. Most of their players play in the domestic league, as they're so bad that they couldn't make a contract for Go Ahead Eagles. And so don't even suffer from travel disturbances. Messi and Di María travel all the way from Europe and play in ridiculous conditions at 4000 meters.

Then Denmark as a common courtesy allocate the best conditions for the visiting team and make no effort to create distractions that aren't on the pitch. My earlier point was that if Ecuador makes the game difficult only for climatic reasons or other, all other countries should be able to do similar difficulties to even the odds. Like as the fans of Swedish AIK fabricated a fire alarm during the middle of the night in their opponent's hotel in the Europa League qualifications. It's not fair play, but neither is the elevation of Quito.
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Old 10-18-2013, 07:25 PM
 
Location: Miami,FL
2,891 posts, read 3,293,301 times
Reputation: 683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
Another benefit for Ecuador. Most of their players play in the domestic league, as they're so bad that they couldn't make a contract for Go Ahead Eagles. And so don't even suffer from travel disturbances. Messi and Di María travel all the way from Europe and play in ridiculous conditions at 4000 meters.

Then Denmark as a common courtesy allocate the best conditions for the visiting team and make no effort to create distractions that aren't on the pitch. My earlier point was that if Ecuador makes the game difficult only for climatic reasons or other, all other countries should be able to do similar difficulties to even the odds. Like as the fans of Swedish AIK fabricated a fire alarm during the middle of the night in their opponent's hotel in the Europa League qualifications. It's not fair play, but neither is the elevation of Quito.
And what the heck is wrong with the swedish fans fabricating a fire alarm? you europeans like to take the gamesmanship out of everything. you guys ban flares, hooliganism, in game taunting, pre game pranks, and now homefield advantage. The whole point playing at home is to actually have an advantage and now you guys are complaining about the intimidating stadiums in which south america plays.
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Old 10-18-2013, 07:58 PM
 
Location: Tejas
7,551 posts, read 16,400,231 times
Reputation: 5087
Quote:
Originally Posted by miamihurricane555 View Post
And what the heck is wrong with the swedish fans fabricating a fire alarm? you europeans like to take the gamesmanship out of everything. you guys ban flares, hooliganism, in game taunting, pre game pranks, and now homefield advantage. The whole point playing at home is to actually have an advantage and now you guys are complaining about the intimidating stadiums in which south america plays.
Im quoting you just to say you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
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Old 10-18-2013, 08:25 PM
 
Location: Glen Rock, NJ
667 posts, read 1,495,217 times
Reputation: 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
If you give the factors as a benefit for the environmental and out-of-football conditions, how about playing a game with all the players food-poisoned?

Should the Afghan national football team be given an automatic qualifying place, as those guys truly play in really difficult conditions? It's not UEFA's fault that most of the world's a mess.



Best message in this thread ever. Sorry, but can't spread love at this time.

This is as close as racist I have seen. Are you serious? Quito (Ecuador) IS THEIR CAPITAL. How is it their 'burden' that they are in high altitude? You lose all your credibility with this type of post. Talk futbol not BS.
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