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Old 04-15-2013, 08:40 PM
 
Location: yeah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJG View Post
They're both dumb names, but when you think "Utah", does ANYTHING of royalty comes to mind?
Virreinato de Nueva España...

 
Old 04-15-2013, 10:02 PM
JJG
 
Location: Fort Worth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krudmonk View Post
Virreinato de Nueva España...
That stretched from Texas to California...

Not specifically Utah.
 
Old 04-16-2013, 07:04 AM
 
Location: Bel Air, California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJG View Post
...what?

Real means "royal".
They're both dumb names, but when you think "Utah", does ANYTHING of royalty comes to mind?
sure...inbreeding
 
Old 04-16-2013, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Tejas
7,552 posts, read 16,438,505 times
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LMAO

Salt Lake Incest
 
Old 04-16-2013, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post
it's not that they are euro names

it's that they are names that have no connection to the market

that is the disconnect

no one cares that they have a euro background - it's that they have a background that is very specific to a region

again, it would be like having the Sheffield Mariners - the issue wouldn't be that the name came from a coastal town, the issue would be that there simply aren't Mariners in that part of the country

standard practice when you get to name your own team is that you typically name them something that has some sort of meaning - it's not that you simply pluck a name that has marketable value in another region and attach it to your product to simply try and increase your brand

it would be like if Englad started up a basketball league and the London team chose the Laker moniker to go with it .... the name wouldn't be dumb because it's foreign, it would be dumb in that it has no representation to the city you are representing

and even if it were as simple as raggin on euro names being used in the states, that wouldn't be putting down euro names being used in europe or saying that all euro teams should use american names .... the later would be arrogant and trying to impose our way onto others, the former not so much ... there is a definite break in those two thoughts

The hypothesis that you seem to be claiming in this thread is that US sports teams name their teams after their region rather than for marketing purposes. This is false. Anytime a company names something and creates a brand, it is done for marketing purposes. Yes, some teams have named their teams for something that has to do with the region but many, in all professional US leagues, have not done so.

There are tons of professional sports teams outside of soccer that have names that have nothing to do with their region. They were named because of marketing purposes. The entire Lion, Tigers, and Bears nicknaming convention that the US started using is entirely based on marketing and nothing more. Some of the names are tied to the city or region and some of them were just named because the owner's thought it would sell tickets and some were named by a marketing company that was hired to do the logo and branding.

Here are some examples:

The Buffalo Bills was named after Buffalo Bill Cody who had nothing to do with Buffalo NY.
The Washington Wizards? WTF? What do Wizards have to do with DC?
Minnesota Wild? That sounds like something a 12 year old would name a team they made on Madden.
Golden State Warriors?
Toronto Raptors?
Portland Trailblazers was picked out of name contest entries
Dallas Mavericks were named after a TV show that one of the owners was on
New York Jets?
Cleveland Browns - named after their head coach and founder who left and started the Bengals which brings us too...
Cincinatti Bengals - what do tigers have to do with Cincinnati? They were named that way so they could use the old Browns uniforms with a cool new design they thought would sell more jerseys.
Tennessee Titans - I personally like the name but nothing to do with the region and named because they thought it sounded good.
New York Rangers - they are named after their owner which had the nickname Tex and he liked the Texas Rangers so they are not only not named after their region but because of the owner liked a name from another region.

I could go on but a good number of pro sports teams in the US are not named after their region and even with the teams that are, it is all based on marketing. I have a few textbooks at home from sports marketing classes and it discusses naming and branding of sports teams in the U.S. It is all done for marketing purposes.

The United States has a huge European influence. We use to be colonies or terrotories of European countries and a lot of the people that are in this country are descendants of Europeans. Before we had formal professional sports leagues, the sports leagues that existed were teams created by cities recreational programs or teams created by companies so their employees could play. These teams were often named like European soccer clubs or named after the company (i.e. Green Bay Packers formally the Acme Packers).

Are some of the names of MLS teams dumb? Yes. But, that is the case for every other professional league in the US too whether they are named after their region or not. To nitpick MLS is completely inaccurate and unfair. I would much rather have my team named Dallas FC than Minnesota Wild or Cincinnati Bengals. At least Dallas FC sounds more professional and allows the fans to choose a nickname of their own which is how the oldest teams in the world have done it.

FC Dallas fans have called their teams the Hoops because of their hooped jerseys. SKC fans still call their teams Wizards because of the former name, Blues is another because of our colors. New England fans call their team the Revs. Chivas is called the Goats since it is a translation of the word Chivas. I believe Salt Lake fans have some nicknames for their team as well although I cannot recall them off the top of my head.

The naming convention used by MLS teams hasnt exactly hurt things. Real Salt Lake does really well in a market that wasnt expected to succeed. Kansas City used Wizards which could be tied to Wizards of Oz but they were one of the worst sports teams in the country until they went with Sporting Kansas City and are now selling out beyond capacity and playing in the best under 20k seat stadium in the world.
 
Old 04-16-2013, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
5,763 posts, read 9,777,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post
No it isn't.

It would be arrogant to say that european teams need to have american style names.

From a marketing standpoint it does seem lame to use copy-cat names that have no association to your area - not to mention it does nothing to draw a connection to your city.
A lot of sports organizations in the U.S. have copied each other. How many colleges have used Tigers? The New York Rangers are named after the Texas Rangers. As I said before, all the names are marketing. Some are good, some are bad. It is the same for products sold in stores. Some are good, some are bad.

As a fan, I would much rather have City Name FC or City Name SC and be able to adopt a nickname amongst other fans to use. The nickname thing was developed simply to sell tickets and market the team. It isnt done to create an identity to the region and if an organization happen to use the region, it was done because the owners felt that was the best way to market the team. Using the city or state in the name accomplishes that tying the team to the region. I like when teams use something from the region for the team name but let's not pretend that the American sports team naming convention is some noble idea that owners do out of the kindness of their hearts to associate with the area. It is done to sell tickets and allow to create cool merchandise to sell and that will look good on TV.
 
Old 04-16-2013, 06:05 PM
JJG
 
Location: Fort Worth
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I understand your post. Very valid examples. HOWEVER, there are reasons why certain teams are named a certain way. For some of them, anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
Here are some examples:

The Washington Wizards? WTF? What do Wizards have to do with DC?
We all know why it was changed from the "Bullets". PC reasons. But they should have gone with a better name and it didn't have to have anything to do with DC itself...

Minnesota Wild? That sounds like something a 12 year old would name a team they made on Madden.
The Great Northern wilderness...lakes, forests, wildlife...

Golden State Warriors?
Originally in Philadelphia, it's another Native American team name. Self explanatory, it would fit anywhere in this country.

Portland Trailblazers was picked out of name contest entries
Right, but you could attach it to the pioneers who moved out to the Pacific Northwest.

Dallas Mavericks were named after a TV show that one of the owners was on
"Maverick" has multiple meanings, one of which means an unbranded animal on a ranch. It's Texas... it fits.

New York Jets?
That was chosen after Titans because the owner thought it would be more modern (this was in the 60's when airline travel was still pretty new), although it is still a pretty generic team name that would fit anywhere.

Tennessee Titans - I personally like the name but nothing to do with the region and named because they thought it sounded good.
Actually, it DOES have something to do with Nashville.... The Parthenon in Nashville. The city also has a nickname referring to Greece or Greek culture.

New York Rangers - they are named after their owner which had the nickname Tex and he liked the Texas Rangers so they are not only not named after their region but because of the owner liked a name from another region.
Nope. They were named after the historic Texas Rangers law enforcement. Which is exactly why they're not called the Dallas Rangers or Fort Worth or Arlington Rangers.
 
Old 04-17-2013, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
5,763 posts, read 9,777,889 times
Reputation: 2809
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJG View Post
I understand your post. Very valid examples. HOWEVER, there are reasons why certain teams are named a certain way. For some of them, anyway.

But, a lot of the reasons you state werent the reasons they were chosen. You have found valid reasons THEY could be tied to the region but many of them arent chosen because of the reasons you state.

I also know the New York Rangers were named after the Texas Rangers. That is still a NY team naming themselves after another state's organization. How is that better than Euro copying?
 
Old 04-17-2013, 04:57 PM
JJG
 
Location: Fort Worth
13,251 posts, read 19,262,925 times
Reputation: 7010
Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
I also know the New York Rangers were named after the Texas Rangers. That is still a NY team naming themselves after another state's organization. How is that better than Euro copying?
Huh?

The New York Rangers came WAY before the Texas Rangers came into existence. New York was one of the Original Six in the NHL in the early 1900's and it wasn't until 1972 when Washington moved to Arlington to become the Texas Rangers.

And even if it were so, it still wouldn't be any better. But the example you gave here doesn't work mainly because those are two different kinds of "Rangers" anyway.
 
Old 04-17-2013, 07:26 PM
 
9,035 posts, read 16,500,064 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
The hypothesis that you seem to be claiming in this thread is that US sports teams name their teams after their region rather than for marketing purposes.
Absolutely not the hypothesis I'm presenting .... it is marketing ... what I am saying is that it makes more sense from a marketing standpoint to tie in with your community than to simply copycat something that doesn't make any sense

There are many different ways that teams get names and it will also depend on when they were formed .... the 4 major themes in the US are color, animal, region or tribal/warrior

Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
Are some of the names of MLS teams dumb? Yes. But, that is the case for every other professional league in the US too whether they are named after their region or not. To nitpick MLS is completely inaccurate and unfair. I would much rather have my team named Dallas FC than Minnesota Wild or Cincinnati Bengals. At least Dallas FC sounds more professional and allows the fans to choose a nickname of their own which is how the oldest teams in the world have done it.
Again - you seem to think that I am blasting MLS and not saying that other teams have some bad names .... not the case at all. A bad name is a bad name - I even mentioned in this thread that all sports have their share

As for your list:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
The Buffalo Bills was named after Buffalo Bill Cody who had nothing to do with Buffalo NY.
Professional football went under a few names - primarily Bison like most of the sports teams in the city - the AAFC team wanted something more distinct from their counterparts, so they held a name the team contest ..... it was a fan submitted play on words and tied into how Buffalo was going to frontier the new history of Buffalo sports .... when the AFL (now NFL) team came through they also did a name contest and the fans chose to stick with the Bills based on their history ...... I think it's a dopey name, but it does make sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
The Washington Wizards? WTF? What do Wizards have to do with DC?
This franchise was the Chicago Packer, then Chicago Zephrys and then moved and became the Baltimore Bullets - the team moved to Washington and kept the name for decades until Bullets fell out of fashion, at which point they chose Wizards through a name the team contest against Dragons, Express, Stallions or Sea Dogs - the Bullets moniker came from the Bata Bullets shoes that were made nearby, plus Bullets are fast and dangerous which works for sports (or at least at a time)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
Minnesota Wild? That sounds like something a 12 year old would name a team they made on Madden.
As described above the Wild have a lot of connection to the characterstics of MN - most of which is displayed in their logo ... this franchise also taps strongly into the MN hockey history having every HS sweater on display in their stadium and heavily marketing themselves as "The State of Hockey"

This was another where there was a lot of fan input - the other finalists were Blue Ox, Freeze, Northern Lights, Voyageurs & White Bears ... all very minnesotan

Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
Golden State Warriors?
Philadelphia Warriors - generic tribal name, which fits the history of the Delaware Valley

Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
Toronto Raptors?
Just a horrible name with no rhyme or reason ... almost as bad as the Mighty Ducks

Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
Portland Trailblazers was picked out of name contest entries
This name makes perfect sense for the area as Portland was the end of the Oregon trail which is very important in the history of the region and the nation. The leading candidate was Pioneers (same general thought) but it was already used by a college

Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
Dallas Mavericks were named after a TV show that one of the owners was on
James Garner was a very small part of the ownership group. Also a "maverick" is more than a TV program. This is another one where there was a fan contest and Maverick won beating out Wranglers & Express. The former basketball team in Dallas were the Chaparrals which became the SA Spurs. Other teams have used the term Maverick and Samuel Maverick played a solid role in TX history, signing the TX Declaration of Independence, and the term "maverick" meaning an unbranded cattle or someone who is independent minded comes from his attributes

Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
New York Jets?
The Titans of New York were sold off in a bankruptcy proceeding and changed their name - the candidates were Dodgers, Boros & Gothoms .... they wanted something modern, sleek and fast - plus they played on the fact that the new stadium was located between the 2 airports

Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
Cleveland Browns - named after their head coach and founder who left and started the Bengals which brings us too...
Browns was a fan driven thing as well - given his popularity in the area, especially as the Ohio State coach

Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
Cincinatti Bengals - what do tigers have to do with Cincinnati? They were named that way so they could use the old Browns uniforms with a cool new design they thought would sell more jerseys.
Generic animal name - ties into the first professional football team in Cincy - wasn't looking to sell more jerseys ... cleveland and cincy are pretty big rivals, he was most likely looking to spite Art Modell who he really didn't like

Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
Tennessee Titans - I personally like the name but nothing to do with the region and named because they thought it sounded good.
They were the Houston Oilers, which is obvious .... as mentioned, Titans does fit with the "Athens of the South" that is Nashville

Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
New York Rangers - they are named after their owner which had the nickname Tex and he liked the Texas Rangers so they are not only not named after their region but because of the owner liked a name from another region.
definitely not named after the baseball team as mentioned - the owner was "Tex Rickard" and those were his "Rangers" - Tex's Rangers, a play on the Texas Rangers outfit of the time

Teams by and large though have some kind of connection to the area and it is done for marketing - it connects to the fans

In American sports teams have moved so much that some of the names don't fit their current area - although they did at a time.

The Atlanta Hawks were the Tri-City Blackhawks - shortened to hawks when they moved to Milwaukee and kept as they made their way to Atlanta

Boston Celtics - play to the Irish population in Boston

Charolotte Bobcats - there are bobcats in the carolinas, however many think it was an ego play by the owner (named Robert/Bob) or a ploy to play on the other cat names in the area .... Charlotte Flight was in the running and would have been better, IMO

Chicago Bulls - stockyard history in Chicago

Cleveland Cavaliers - fan vote - not a strong connection, but voted over other names that had more local meaning

Denver Nuggets - ties to Colorado gold rush

Detroit Pistons - made perfect sense as the Fort Wayne Zollner Pistons named after the owners piston mfg company in the Indiana town - shortened to Pistons the name still fit in the motor city, one of the rare moves that still worked

Houston Rockets - in SD the name played on the city theme and they were mfg liquid fueled Atlas rockets, however it made the even rarer jump of becomming a perfect fit when they moved to Houston

Indiana Pacers - direct tie to Indy

LA Clippers - doesn't work as well as the SD Clippers (which changed from the Braves when the team moved from Buffalo to SD)

LA Lakers - a move that makes no sense, but it fit perfectly in the land of 10,000 lakes as the Mpls Lakers

Memphis Grizzlies - definitely a fit into the Pac NW with Vancouver and their history - there was a short lived CFL team in the 40s that went by the Vancouver Grizzlies as well

Miami Heat - yeah.......

Milwaukee Bucks - another name the team winner and there is a big hunting culture in WI

MN Timberwolves - fan contests - Blizzard was the most popular, but Timber Wolves ruled the day - the wolves are unique to MN

NJ Nets - well at least it's basketball related - they tried to play on the Mets & Jets and they've never had any success, the brand has been a long loser

NO Hornets - fan vote in Charlotte after the original name created an outrage - this is changing to Pelicans which will tie into NO

NY Nnickerbockers - ties into the dutch settlers of NY

Seattle Super Sonics - ties into Boeing and Seattles status as "The Jet City"

Oklahoma City Thunder - beat out other Okie related names

Orlando Magic - ties into their tourism and the Magic Kingdom ... would have been cool if Challengers made it through tough as a tribute to those atronauts

Philadelphia 76ers - pretty obvious

Phoenix Suns - obvious - beat out scorpions, thunderbirds, rattlers and a host of others

Sacramento Kings - started out as the Rochester Royals - no signifigance I can find and I'm from that area

San Antonio Spurs - definitely ties in

Utah Jazz - definitely should have changed when they moved from New Orleans


As you can see the majority of NBA teams have ties to their area (or at least they did upon their inception) ... you can find a logical link for the vast majority of american professional sports teams, because it makes good marketing sense

The ones that did something generic or worse trendy often have had dismal marketing success (i'm looking at you raptors, mighty ducks, nets, bobcats, etc)
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