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Old 06-15-2013, 03:38 PM
 
17 posts, read 12,104 times
Reputation: 10

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But a team from LA Chicago or DC, isnt going to be knocked out by a team from Knoxville Buffalo or Des Moines, those teams will be competing to be in the third tear

Its much more likely it would be a team from Tampa, knocking out a team from Denver or vice versa, you would end up with a pool of maybe 10-15 teams that alternate between 1st and 2nd divison, with a further 10 -15 teams that are safe bets for 1st division, it is these safe teams that would contain the likes of Houston, Philadelphia Miami it would be the teams from the 2 - 3 million metros that would be involved in the promotion/relegation battles, and ultimately there would be little to no net loss every season in terms of total metro areas of teams involved

No other football team owner pays anywhere near 100 million to play in the league, if this was in the form of a bond, held to ensure payment of creditors/players/staff etc in case of bankruptcy it would make sense, it may have even made sense when the league was starting, but at this stage it does not


You dont relegate teams thats true, maybe that is what football needs to help it stand apart from the traditional big four, the romance that any team can possibly make it, not just one of x amount of chosen teams will make it each year, and the next year it will be another one, and another, but always from that same group, unless the owner decides another market is mnore attractives moves them there and sometimes renames them.

Americans have tried to change the rules of football several times for their own domestic market, and guess what they never improved it, and have gone back to the international rules, maybe just maybe, the rest of the world after 130 + years of experience knows how a football league should work as well

 
Old 06-15-2013, 04:40 PM
 
782 posts, read 938,677 times
Reputation: 1016
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamotu View Post
But a team from LA Chicago or DC, isnt going to be knocked out by a team from Knoxville Buffalo or Des Moines, those teams will be competing to be in the third tear
Wrong, look at DC this year - worst team in the league by far, and Chicago aren't a whole lot better.


Quote:
Americans have tried to change the rules of football several times for their own domestic market, and guess what they never improved it, and have gone back to the international rules, maybe just maybe, the rest of the world after 130 + years of experience knows how a football league should work as well
You are right, the attempts to alter the fundamental rules of the game are misguided and ruin the game. Promotion/relegation is not a fundamental rule of the game however, it is an organizational aspect that while functional in other countries is never, ever, ever going to work in America. American advertisers, broadcasters and general populace will never understand or support it. Simple fact.
 
Old 06-18-2013, 12:27 AM
 
1,496 posts, read 1,506,165 times
Reputation: 1212
Quote:
Originally Posted by texantodd View Post

You are right, the attempts to alter the fundamental rules of the game are misguided and ruin the game. Promotion/relegation is not a fundamental rule of the game however, it is an organizational aspect that while functional in other countries is never, ever, ever going to work in America. American advertisers, broadcasters and general populace will never understand or support it. Simple fact.
WRONG

it has worked everywhere. It works in every frickin league on the planet. It won't work in the U.S because? You guys never answer this. You just say it won't work.

American advertisers and broadcasters wouldn't understand it? NBc JUST PAID $250 MIL FOR THE EPL! A LEAGUE THAT HAS PRO/REL!
 
Old 06-18-2013, 09:47 AM
 
782 posts, read 938,677 times
Reputation: 1016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldous9 View Post
WRONG

it has worked everywhere. It works in every frickin league on the planet. It won't work in the U.S because? You guys never answer this. You just say it won't work.

American advertisers and broadcasters wouldn't understand it? NBc JUST PAID $250 MIL FOR THE EPL! A LEAGUE THAT HAS PRO/REL!
US owners will not spend 100 million plus to buy an expansion team who are going to lose money (as the majority of MLS teams still do) and have the risk of being relegated. US advertisers are not going to pay when they risk losing a major market.

NBC paid for rights to a league that has major and growing viewership in this country, and which does not risk losing market share by having a major US city knocked down. MLS coverage on television or newspapers is almost non-existant outside of MLS markets. MLS tv ratings are not strong anywher but MLS markets, and even there they are not strong. MLS has been growing at a slow rate, but if a major market club (Chicago/DC just as two currently crappy examples) were lost and replaced by a smaller city it would be disastrous on so many levels.

If you don't understand that then you are either not American or your are blind.

Listen - I WANT PROMOTION/RELEGATION. I hate other sports. I love football (i.e. soccer). It is one of my biggest passions in life. I want America to embrace and love the world's game. But I"m not blind or stupid, and I understand that culturally there are differences in the sporting climate here and in other countries.
 
Old 06-18-2013, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Fairfax, Va
245 posts, read 256,740 times
Reputation: 127
Without pro/rel MLS can't add more than a 24th team. How can more than 25 teams play in a soccer league?
 
Old 06-18-2013, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Miami,FL
2,889 posts, read 3,302,418 times
Reputation: 688
Quote:
Originally Posted by mos1992 View Post
Without pro/rel MLS can't add more than a 24th team. How can more than 25 teams play in a soccer league?
easy they only play each other once per season or do what the NFL does and divide up the league into divisions with only teams in the same division playing each other twice and rotating which divisions will play against each other.
 
Old 06-18-2013, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Miami,FL
2,889 posts, read 3,302,418 times
Reputation: 688
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamotu View Post
But a team from LA Chicago or DC, isnt going to be knocked out by a team from Knoxville Buffalo or Des Moines, those teams will be competing to be in the third tear

Its much more likely it would be a team from Tampa, knocking out a team from Denver or vice versa, you would end up with a pool of maybe 10-15 teams that alternate between 1st and 2nd divison, with a further 10 -15 teams that are safe bets for 1st division, it is these safe teams that would contain the likes of Houston, Philadelphia Miami it would be the teams from the 2 - 3 million metros that would be involved in the promotion/relegation battles, and ultimately there would be little to no net loss every season in terms of total metro areas of teams involved

No other football team owner pays anywhere near 100 million to play in the league, if this was in the form of a bond, held to ensure payment of creditors/players/staff etc in case of bankruptcy it would make sense, it may have even made sense when the league was starting, but at this stage it does not


You dont relegate teams thats true, maybe that is what football needs to help it stand apart from the traditional big four, the romance that any team can possibly make it, not just one of x amount of chosen teams will make it each year, and the next year it will be another one, and another, but always from that same group, unless the owner decides another market is mnore attractives moves them there and sometimes renames them.

Americans have tried to change the rules of football several times for their own domestic market, and guess what they never improved it, and have gone back to the international rules, maybe just maybe, the rest of the world after 130 + years of experience knows how a football league should work as well
It's not about how big the population of a metro area is. it's about how popular the sport is within that metro and in that category I would say LA,Seattle,Miami, and New York would be the cities dominating.
 
Old 06-18-2013, 01:35 PM
 
9,034 posts, read 16,471,250 times
Reputation: 6827
exactly .... pro sports in the US is a 30+ team ordeal

again, that is what is dictated by the geography of the nation and the size of the markets

this isn't some small land mass where you jam a half dozen top level teams in your most populus market .... just doesn't work that way here - although, incidentally that is how most sports did get their start in the US .... very regional in scope, until they were consolidated and honed over time to get to what we have now
 
Old 06-18-2013, 05:35 PM
 
1,356 posts, read 1,640,958 times
Reputation: 1035
Quote:
Originally Posted by texantodd View Post
US owners will not spend 100 million plus to buy an expansion team who are going to lose money (as the majority of MLS teams still do) and have the risk of being relegated. US advertisers are not going to pay when they risk losing a major market.

NBC paid for rights to a league that has major and growing viewership in this country, and which does not risk losing market share by having a major US city knocked down. MLS coverage on television or newspapers is almost non-existant outside of MLS markets. MLS tv ratings are not strong anywher but MLS markets, and even there they are not strong. MLS has been growing at a slow rate, but if a major market club (Chicago/DC just as two currently crappy examples) were lost and replaced by a smaller city it would be disastrous on so many levels.

If you don't understand that then you are either not American or your are blind.

Listen - I WANT PROMOTION/RELEGATION. I hate other sports. I love football (i.e. soccer). It is one of my biggest passions in life. I want America to embrace and love the world's game. But I"m not blind or stupid, and I understand that culturally there are differences in the sporting climate here and in other countries.
I wouldn't bother to keep arguing with him. I read something about a month about how you should choose who you want to argue with based on whether or not you want to grow from it and how you should avoid some arguments because you're basically arguing against strawmen and caricatures. That person doesn't care about how sound economically or financially his arguments are or why something may be different even if they are the same on the surface level. At this point he just wants to be right. Let him in his own world be right. It seems the majority in this thread understand the difficulties being presented.
 
Old 06-18-2013, 06:07 PM
 
1,651 posts, read 1,311,504 times
Reputation: 288
This thread is going nowhere. Two sides are never going to agree.

Besides, its gone totally off topic.

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