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Old 06-07-2013, 12:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JD47john View Post
If the league wants to one day compete with other leagues, its gonna have to adapt to the way the game is mostly played. Winning the championship wont mean nothing if it can be won by the same teams every year. The talent that will be on display in the MLS will leave for a better league.

The MLS needs to keep growing but it will soon need to bring in a promotion/relegation system.
I don't follow your logic. The way the game is played elsewhere in the world means that the teams with the deepest pockets are constantly at the top of the table. The MLS has seen it's talent grow since the league was founded and just this season, three of our teams were almost made it to the CL final against other teams that have been around longer than our teams.

 
Old 06-07-2013, 12:55 PM
 
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Again - that has nothing to do with anything

Really nothing said in that comment at all

Quote:
Originally Posted by JD47john View Post
If the league wants to one day compete with other leagues, its gonna have to adapt to the way the game is mostly played.
The game is played the same - same field, same ball, same rules, etc ..... the game is fundamentally the same ... the business is different and the only thing that would hamper the league from competing with other leagues is finances ....... the revenue would be hampered by pro/reg .... they need to build up the main markets, get a TV audience and start to generate TV revenue .... the league is a long ways off from being able to financially compete with the top leagues and frankly it doesn't really matter - for them to be a successful league in the US they don't have to produce the top world club teams

Quote:
Originally Posted by JD47john View Post
Winning the championship wont mean nothing if it can be won by the same teams every year.
So the championships that Man United have compiled in a pro/reg environment don't mean anything? Since the premier league came into existence in 1992 there have been 45 teams that have competed for the title and only have have lifted the trophy - Man United (13), Arsenal (3), Chelsea (3), Blackburn Rovers (1) and Man City (1) ...... blackburn is coming up on 20 years since their championship and city is pushing new money to be in the fold .... the premiership is typically a 3-5 team league in any give year with 3 of those teams being static each year

That is parity compared to La Liga - which as been dominated by Barcelona and Real Madrid for generations - Atletico Madrid is the 3rd most decorated team and their total # of top 3 finishes (30) is fewer than the total of Real Madrid titles (32) .... Real Madrid has finished top three 60 times, Barcelona 58 times ...... so how again does pro/reg keep the same couple of teams from winning titles again?

In modern times Serie A is pretty much Juventus, Milan & Internazionale ... ocassionally Napoli peaks their heads in there, alone with Roma ...... again, a super top heavy league

Bundesliga is slightly more balanced with team popping up into conention every now and again - but still, Bayern Munich has won 11 titles in the past 20 years and have been runner up 5 times

Championships are about money for the most part ... if you can buy and support the talent you can continue to win .... the US systems isn't set up to be as financially impacted (although there are defintiely some more financial advantages now than in the past)

MLS has had 17 seasons and 12 different teams have played for the title with 10 different teams winning the title ....... if you want to look at single table type titles for which team had the most points in the regular season then the supporters shield has gone to 8 different teams in this time span

So again, how exactly is pro/reg hurting the parity in MLS compared to other world leagues?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JD47john View Post
The talent that will be on display in the MLS will leave for a better league.
Because the "better leagues" are more established and can offer greater revenue that continues to increase the competition level ......... if MLS would go pro/reg it would crumple emerging markets and the financial stability of teams - not to mention prevent teams from even getting off the ground

Quote:
Originally Posted by JD47john View Post
The MLS needs to keep growing but it will soon need to bring in a promotion/relegation system.
Again - simply no backing to this

The US is a giant country with a large number of giant cities that can fully support franchises .... there is a clear difference between the larger cities and smaller cities on the whole in their ability to support a team and drive revenue for the league ......... losing a team in houston to a team in El Paso would be a huge blow for the league and TV contracts could never be fully capitalized if something like that were a distinct possibility

The only way it could work is if you had a financially imbalanced league where the large clubs could reasonably secure their place, be the main draws and provide reinsurance to networks, advertisers, etc that they would be there to continue to drive the draw ...... then you just cycle through the smaller markets that don't drive as much revenue
 
Old 06-07-2013, 02:03 PM
 
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Whats the point in having a league where no one can get relegated/promoted? As I said, winning the league wont mean anything if its a league with the exact same teams every year. I also don't see how it would be enjoyable. No last day heartbreak. That's the sort of thing that will get you viewers.

My point on competing with other leagues goes back to a discussion I had on this site a few months ago. People were saying that the MLS can compete with the top football leagues in Europe. It cant. I am not just talking about financially. Who wants to play in a league where a team cant get relegated or promoted? Top players want to play in thrilling leagues. A league that stays the same is boring and not appealing to the best players.

As I said, the league needs to grow first before anything is done. The MLS needs to keep doing what it is doing. However, in years to come, a promoted/relegated system needs to come in to bring more excitement and thrill to the league and to widen the fanbase. A few more big name has-beens wouldn't hurt either. The league is growing which is the main thing at the minute and I hope to see it do well. The more football, the better.
 
Old 06-07-2013, 02:48 PM
 
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top players don't want to play for teams that are at risk of falling off the table

thrilling finishes/excitement for the masses comes at the top of the table ....... not the bottom - that audience is much more limited and it's more depressing than thrilling

also, you can still work yourself up from the bottom of the league to the top - especially in a league like MLS - which many fans find thrilling and you can generate interest over time as long as they are working in that direction .... you build long term excitement and followings

in the leagues I mentioned pro/reg has nothing to do with who is in contention to win ... absolutely nothing ....... in those leagues it's going to be one of a handfull of teams pretty much every single season and those teams very seldom rotate ...... in La Liga if you aren't a fan of Real Madrid or Barca your team has pretty much no shot at the title, yet you argue that those titles are somehow more meaningful because they cycle through a group of teams that will never, ever compete for a title?
 
Old 06-07-2013, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JD47john View Post
That should be the risk you have to take. If the MLS wants to compete with other football leagues, its gonna have to adapt to the way the other leagues play the game.
I completely agree.
 
Old 06-07-2013, 04:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post
thrilling finishes/excitement for the masses comes at the top of the table ....... not the bottom - that audience is much more limited and it's more depressing than thrilling
That's not true at all. When a team is going down and its based on the last game of the season, its a huge game and gets an audience. Its like a cup final. 90th minute winner to stay up means something and is a big deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post
also, you can still work yourself up from the bottom of the league to the top - especially in a league like MLS - which many fans find thrilling and you can generate interest over time as long as they are working in that direction .... you build long term excitement and followings
But whats good about that from a fans point of view? At least if there is a threat of relegation the games are more important and more vital to win. More at stake means better, more passionate game of football. That's the pros of relegation. Excitement is seen at the bottom of the table to. Not just the top.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post
in the leagues I mentioned pro/reg has nothing to do with who is in contention to win ... absolutely nothing ....... in those leagues it's going to be one of a handfull of teams pretty much every single season and those teams very seldom rotate ...... in La Liga if you aren't a fan of Real Madrid or Barca your team has pretty much no shot at the title, yet you argue that those titles are somehow more meaningful because they cycle through a group of teams that will never, ever compete for a title?
Of course it does. Man Utd lost to Wigan 1-0 last season. Man Utd were on course to winning the league. Wigan were going down. A fight back from Wigan coming to the end of the season kept them up. It was very entertaining. They beat Man Utd and Man Utd lost the league to Man City on goal difference. QPR were going down to on the last day. They were beating Man City 2-1 to stay up. City fought back and won 3-2. QPR stayed up anyway because of another result. These are just some of the examples of how teams in danger of going down have an effect on the rest of the league and who wins it. No one likes playing a team in danger of going down because that team will have fight in them and could cause an upset. That's entertaining for a fan.

Also, its not just about winning the league. Yes 2 or 3 teams will only win the league but 5 teams are also in contention with qualifying for the Champions League and Europa League. The MLS doesn't have that. That's the way teams build in Europe. They qualify for the Champions League and build a title challenge(except if you are Arsenal of course). How can a team in the US build a title challenge? How can a midtable team build a title challenge if they cant compete for another competition?

How will the league be exciting and thrilling if (apart from 2 or 3 teams at the top), everyone is equal? The reason the Premier League is thrilling is because you have a title race, a race for the top 4, a race for Europe and a relegation battle. That has thrill, passion and excitement written all over it.
 
Old 06-07-2013, 04:18 PM
 
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So now it's not about winning the league?

Wow - a league may have a total of 5 teams be able to compete for a title over 20 years .... that really is amazing ... but they do get to play in a completely other tournament - a tournament that all but those 5 teams are also going to be excluded from by and large

But feel free to take your consolation prize of maybe staying in the club even if you never have a shot to compete at anything beyond getting sent down

Color me unimpressed
 
Old 06-07-2013, 04:22 PM
 
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Never said its not about winning the league. Its about entertainment though to. So you would have a title race and that's it? You wouldn't have the excitement of a title race and the excitement of a relegation battle?
 
Old 06-07-2013, 04:45 PM
 
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no - relegation isn't exciting as there is no hope for the team that gets sent down and they get beat up financially (which is why the EPL floats money to the relegated teams - which then makes it harder for some teams looking to get promoted)

again - it's awful business when you have a situation where houston can be replaced by el paso .... that type of move will crush your league

if your team is in the basement or towards the bottom you hope they get some good young talent in and then can start to build themselves back up to the point where you can compete for a championship ..... it's pointless to have a franchise that has zero hope to ever compete for a championship

in american sports there are just way too many options - no one is going to turn out to support a team that is never in it and frankly most wouldn't find anything exciting about having their team be constantly in contention to be sent down

even with the financial imbalance in baseball you see teams go from being bad to at least being in contention and providing an entertaining product .... in 2010 2 of the 3 worst teams in the NL were Arizona & Washington .... in 2011 AZ was in the playoffs, in 2012 Washington was in the playoffs ........ I'm sure the local Arizona fans found it much more exciting to bounce back in 2011 than to spend that year playing low talent teams from reno, albuquerque and the like .... not to mention the league is happy to have a team that performing well in a 5M+ person metro area
 
Old 06-07-2013, 04:56 PM
 
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Well if you want the league to grow to a bigger audience, that's how you are going to do it. Its reasons like them that the Premier League and other major leagues are so major.
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