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View Poll Results: Who do you think is going to win the WC in Brazil?
Brazil 19 28.79%
Argentina 10 15.15%
Spain 5 7.58%
Germany 21 31.82%
Italy 1 1.52%
Portugal 0 0%
Netherlands 1 1.52%
Other: Please post your option. 9 13.64%
Voters: 66. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-30-2013, 10:43 PM
 
Location: Scotland
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So in you stupid reasoning Miami, Chile are on par with Brazil and Spain?!
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Old 09-30-2013, 10:54 PM
 
Location: Finland
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Chile is a quality team, but not anymore what they used to be. Miamihurricane seems to exaggerate the quality of the Western Hemisphere teams, and it is sometimes difficult to percieve the class between the Old and New World, as countries seldom play against each other. That is also the fallacy in the FIFA ranking, as you get a different amount of points depending on the competition, and the quality between continents aren't balanced enough.

When countries like Honduras plays El Salvador in a qualifying match, they are awarded almost as much points for a win than Sweden gets beating Germany. France is at the moment 25th and Algeria 28th, but that doesn't mean they're anywhere equal countries. France will also drop significantly in the FIFA rankings after a year, only because it doesn't play any EURO 2016 qualifying matches as the host of the tournament.

The Elo rating used in chess is a much better and a more 'fair' classification system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_...ll_Elo_Ratings

It puts France as 14th and Algeria as 59th, to mention the examples I brought up.
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Old 09-30-2013, 11:55 PM
 
Location: Miami,FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LindavG View Post
The Netherlands and Italy were the first and only European countries to qualify for the WC so they're not exactly in bad form. Both teams are unbeaten in the WCQ so far (and they don't choose their opposition so you can't hold that against them). The Netherlands are WC finalists and they haven't lost in over a year now (this includes games against Germany, Portugal and Italy). Italy are Euro 2012 finalists and won 3rd place at the 2013 Confederations Cup. They also held Brazil and the Netherlands to a draw and beat Mexico (in Mexico) and Japan this year. Most importantly, both teams have a much better track record at the WC than Chile and if you don't think that counts for something, go ahead and check which teams have actually gotten far (at least SF) at previous WCs. It's only a handful and Chile is not among them. While Chile may face harder opposition in the WCQ, its record against the better CONMEBOL teams isn't exactly great. Chile has lost all games against the teams above it (Argentina and Colombia) and right below it (Ecuador). It also got trashed 4-0 in Uruguay.

I'm not saying Chile is not a good team or that it can't get far at the WC but there is absolutely no reason to think they would have a better chance than Italy or the Netherlands.
Before I break this down by team. let me tell you that a teams recent form is very important to me even more important than say how they performed at the euros back in 2012. when I mean recent form I mean no more than the last 10 games, and yes I include friendlies but to varying degrees depending on the starting XI. so here it is.

First team is Holland: in their last 8 games Holland have hardly been impressive. With a record of 3W 4D 1L scoring 13 goals and conceding 8 goals over that same span. while that in it of itself is already cause for concern for a nation that claims to be a top 10 nation it get's worse when you look at who they have played. all 3 of their victories came against crap teams ranked no higher than #99 in FIFA rankings the best team they managed to beat in that run is drumroll please, China... what's worse is that even playing genuinely crap teams like china,indonesia, and andorra they struggled. their best result was a 3-0 win against indonesia, a team that should easily have been beaten by 7 or 8 goals. now your rebuttal to that might be that who cares a win is a win, that brings me to my next point. Holland couldn't even manage a win against lowly Estonia, nor could it do any better than a draw with other soccer "powers" like italy and portugal. now in all of this there is one bright spot and that was their draw against a vastly superior german side in a friendly. however over the run of 8 games that 1 bright spot doesn't outweigh those 5 glaring disappointments including a lose against it's much smaller footballing neighbor belgium. as a result I hereby demot Holland to Middle Power status in futbol,which means they probably will make the knockout round but shouldn't make it beyond the round of 16.

Next up Italy: In their Last 10 games Italy have performed slightly better than the dutch. With a Record of 4W 4D 2L scoring 16 goals and conceding 16 goals. now the reason I look more favorably on italy then I do on holland is because they have fared better against stronger opposition but not so well as to get them out of Middle Power status. The results Italy have gotten include some notable bright spots like holding out against a Footballing SuperPower like Spain until PKs in the confed cup but also include many more discouraging performances like being held to a draw against Haiti. looking at all of italy's results it's not that they are a bad team it's just that they can't seem to win against footballing giants and look vulnerable sometimes against lesser sides. There games against the Czech Republic and Bulgaria are proof of that as they could only manage narrow 1 goal wins despite playing at home. Further evidence is found when looking at the recent confed cup and friendlies where they could only manage narrow wins against weaker sides like Mexico and Japan. Now just like above you might say a win is a win no matter how close the score is, and that there are teams that a designed to grind out results and that is all true. But, when push came to shove and italy played the other football powerhouses in Brazil,Uruguay,Argentina, and Spain they generally crumbled. with the notable exception being the PK lose to spain. So after looking at how they played in the last 10 games I can say that Italy is a middle power capable of making the quarterfinals but that's as far as she will probably go.

Lastly Chile: In their last 10 games Chile have Performed like a proper footballing power should. With a Record of 6W 2D 2L Scoring 23 goals and conceding 11. you can already see that that is the best of the bunch but what makes it more impressive is the quality of the opposition and the fact that it seems that chile have found a real good run of form as they are unbeaten in their last 7 games. the results include some impressive performances in drawing with super powers brazil and spain as well as blowing away the minnows as a big team should. the only negatives come from the early games with losses against peru and serbia and a narrow victory against egypt. however since then chile have been on fire beating uruguay,paraguay,venezuela,bolivia in qualifying by a combined score of 10-2. but it hasn't only been qualifying where they have impressed, they have also been impressive in friendlies including a 6-0 hammering of iraq and draws against brazil and spain in neutral venues. So after looking at how the 3 teams have performed recently I think it should be pretty obvious that chile is currently playing much better football and is deservedly promoted to footballing power status which means that progression to the knockout round is a virtual shoo in and that the teams expectations should be to make the quarterfinals but should still be considered a dark horse to win the whole thing.

So I hope you all now understand my reasoning and I bid you a good night.
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Old 10-01-2013, 12:20 AM
 
Location: Miami,FL
2,889 posts, read 3,303,068 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paull805 View Post
So in you stupid reasoning Miami, Chile are on par with Brazil and Spain?!
well isn't someone precious. but to answer your question I think chile are a step behind spain and a step and a half behind brazil.
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Old 10-01-2013, 02:54 AM
 
Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands
10,440 posts, read 12,476,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miamihurricane555 View Post

First team is Holland: in their last 8 games Holland have hardly been impressive. With a record of 3W 4D 1L scoring 13 goals and conceding 8 goals over that same span.

while that in it of itself is already cause for concern for a nation that claims to be a top 10 nation it get's worse when you look at who they have played. all 3 of their victories came against crap teams ranked no higher than #99 in FIFA rankings the best team they managed to beat in that run is drumroll please, China... what's worse is that even playing genuinely crap teams like china,indonesia, and andorra they struggled. their best result was a 3-0 win against indonesia, a team that should easily have been beaten by 7 or 8 goals. now your rebuttal to that might be that who cares a win is a win, that brings me to my next point. Holland couldn't even manage a win against lowly Estonia, nor could it do any better than a draw with other soccer "powers" like italy and portugal. now in all of this there is one bright spot and that was their draw against a vastly superior german side in a friendly. however

over the run of 8 games that 1 bright spot doesn't outweigh those 5 glaring disappointments including a lose against it's much smaller footballing neighbor belgium. as a result I hereby demot Holland to Middle Power status in futbol,which means they probably will make the knockout round but shouldn't make it beyond the round of 16.
Minus that friendly game in Belgium they have been decent, with a record of 9 wins and 4 draws, scoring 31 goals and conceding 6 goals.

They won 1-4 in Hungary and Romania, both WC qualifying games!
Draws against Germany, Italy and Portugal in friendlies.
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Old 10-01-2013, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Scotland
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So Brazil are a half a step ahead of Spain, let me guess you base this on their previous meeting? Well Switzerland beat Spain ......... are Switzerland a step ahead? No team are ahead of Spain not until someone wins like their team and domestic teams have done over the past few years.
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Old 10-01-2013, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Finland
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It's a long way to the World Cup yet, but Switzerland is probably the weakest team from Europe who will qualify. They were a joke already at their own Euro tournament, and hasn't improved much since.
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Old 10-01-2013, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Miami,FL
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Originally Posted by Davy-040 View Post
Minus that friendly game in Belgium they have been decent, with a record of 9 wins and 4 draws, scoring 31 goals and conceding 6 goals.

They won 1-4 in Hungary and Romania, both WC qualifying games!
Draws against Germany, Italy and Portugal in friendlies.
those victories against Hungary and Romania are more than a year old. anything that happened more than 10 matches ago and or a year ago doesn't count.
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Old 10-01-2013, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Finland
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Hungary and Romania... Real tough opposition...
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Old 10-01-2013, 12:12 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
2,942 posts, read 4,404,215 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miamihurricane555 View Post
Before I break this down by team. let me tell you that a teams recent form is very important to me even more important than say how they performed at the euros back in 2012. when I mean recent form I mean no more than the last 10 games, and yes I include friendlies but to varying degrees depending on the starting XI. so here it is.

First team is Holland: in their last 8 games Holland have hardly been impressive. With a record of 3W 4D 1L scoring 13 goals and conceding 8 goals over that same span. while that in it of itself is already cause for concern for a nation that claims to be a top 10 nation it get's worse when you look at who they have played. all 3 of their victories came against crap teams ranked no higher than #99 in FIFA rankings the best team they managed to beat in that run is drumroll please, China... what's worse is that even playing genuinely crap teams like china,indonesia, and andorra they struggled. their best result was a 3-0 win against indonesia, a team that should easily have been beaten by 7 or 8 goals. now your rebuttal to that might be that who cares a win is a win, that brings me to my next point. Holland couldn't even manage a win against lowly Estonia, nor could it do any better than a draw with other soccer "powers" like italy and portugal. now in all of this there is one bright spot and that was their draw against a vastly superior german side in a friendly. however over the run of 8 games that 1 bright spot doesn't outweigh those 5 glaring disappointments including a lose against it's much smaller footballing neighbor belgium. as a result I hereby demot Holland to Middle Power status in futbol,which means they probably will make the knockout round but shouldn't make it beyond the round of 16.
What on earth are you talking about? The Netherlands has the best record of all UEFA teams in WCQ along with Germany and Belgium. They have won 7 out of their 8 games with a goal ratio of +20. They haven't lost a single game in over a year. They beat Hungary and Romania 4-1 away and beat Romania 4-0 at home (Hungary is ranked #30, Romania #31). They also beat Turkey 2-0 in Amsterdam (which is almost like playing in Turkey), Turkey is ranked #49. If it weren't for that draw in Estonia, The Netherlands would have held the world record for most WCQ won in a row now. We didn't "struggle" against Andorra, lol. Getting a draw against Germany, Italy and Portugal is a very decent result. That loss against Belgium happened right after the Euro 2012, when we fielded a team full of debutants and had a brand new manager. How did we struggle against Indonesia (3-0 win) and China (2-0 win)?

Quote:
Next up Italy: In their Last 10 games Italy have performed slightly better than the dutch. With a Record of 4W 4D 2L scoring 16 goals and conceding 16 goals. now the reason I look more favorably on italy then I do on holland is because they have fared better against stronger opposition but not so well as to get them out of Middle Power status. The results Italy have gotten include some notable bright spots like holding out against a Footballing SuperPower like Spain until PKs in the confed cup but also include many more discouraging performances like being held to a draw against Haiti. looking at all of italy's results it's not that they are a bad team it's just that they can't seem to win against footballing giants and look vulnerable sometimes against lesser sides. There games against the Czech Republic and Bulgaria are proof of that as they could only manage narrow 1 goal wins despite playing at home. Further evidence is found when looking at the recent confed cup and friendlies where they could only manage narrow wins against weaker sides like Mexico and Japan. Now just like above you might say a win is a win no matter how close the score is, and that there are teams that a designed to grind out results and that is all true. But, when push came to shove and italy played the other football powerhouses in Brazil,Uruguay,Argentina, and Spain they generally crumbled. with the notable exception being the PK lose to spain. So after looking at how they played in the last 10 games I can say that Italy is a middle power capable of making the quarterfinals but that's as far as she will probably go.
So unless Italy beats other teams with at least 2 goals difference, they "crumbled"? It's funny how you mention Italy's draw against Haiti but not Italy's draw against Brazil earlier this year. Also, Argentina only managed to beat Italy by 1 goal in their friendly last month and I seem to recall that Italy kicked Uruguay out of the Confederations Cup Weren't you the one who posted a video of Honduras beating Mexico to prove how awesome Honduras is, yet when Italy beats Mexico it's a disappointing win because they didn't roll over such a weak side?

Quote:
Lastly Chile: In their last 10 games Chile have Performed like a proper footballing power should. With a Record of 6W 2D 2L Scoring 23 goals and conceding 11. you can already see that that is the best of the bunch but what makes it more impressive is the quality of the opposition and the fact that it seems that chile have found a real good run of form as they are unbeaten in their last 7 games. the results include some impressive performances in drawing with super powers brazil and spain as well as blowing away the minnows as a big team should. the only negatives come from the early games with losses against peru and serbia and a narrow victory against egypt. however since then chile have been on fire beating uruguay,paraguay,venezuela,bolivia in qualifying by a combined score of 10-2. but it hasn't only been qualifying where they have impressed, they have also been impressive in friendlies including a 6-0 hammering of iraq and draws against brazil and spain in neutral venues. So after looking at how the 3 teams have performed recently I think it should be pretty obvious that chile is currently playing much better football and is deservedly promoted to footballing power status which means that progression to the knockout round is a virtual shoo in and that the teams expectations should be to make the quarterfinals but should still be considered a dark horse to win the whole thing.
Oh right, so when it comes to Chile we should just ignore their 3-1 loss against Serbia (ranked #43) and their narrow wins against Egypt (ranked #50) and Senegal (ranked #66). But we are supposed to be impressed with them hammering Iraq in a friendly, a team that is not even in the top 100 of the FIFA ranking. How can you criticise Italy for not holding up against the bigger teams when Chile has a far worse record in that respect? Like I said, Chile has lost all games against the other teams in the top 5 of CONMEBOL, except one home win against Uruguay. These losses include 4-1 against Argentina, 4-0 against Uruguay, 3-1 against Colombia and 3-1 against Ecuador. What big teams have they beaten in the past 2 years?

Quote:
So I hope you all now understand my reasoning and I bid you a good night.
No, I get the impression that you haven't watched a football game in your life and base your entire opinion on FIFA/ESPN rankings.
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