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Old 06-02-2016, 06:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
English football goes back way before the 1970's it was a hundred years old by then! It WILL happen again all the while there is pro/rel, could be next year, could be 5 years, could be 10.
I'm well aware, but if you are such an EPL history buff, why don't you enlighten us as to the last time a team that was promoted two seasons prior and barely escaped relegation in their first season up won the league while spending 1/4 of what the "regular" top clubs of that time period?

I'm not saying it won't happen, I'm just saying that calling it an inevitability in today's footballing environment is, at best, wishful thinking.
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Old 06-03-2016, 12:55 PM
 
Location: SE UK
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Originally Posted by highlanderfil View Post
I'm well aware, but if you are such an EPL history buff, why don't you enlighten us as to the last time a team that was promoted two seasons prior and barely escaped relegation in their first season up won the league while spending 1/4 of what the "regular" top clubs of that time period?

I'm not saying it won't happen, I'm just saying that calling it an inevitability in today's footballing environment is, at best, wishful thinking.
Isn't it lucky that the guys at Leicester didn't share your view, perhaps if they thought it 'inevitable' that they were relegation fodder they would have gone down, watch out for Spurs AND West Ham next season.
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Old 06-05-2016, 07:49 AM
 
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Originally Posted by easthome View Post
Isn't it lucky that the guys at Leicester didn't share your view, perhaps if they thought it 'inevitable' that they were relegation fodder they would have gone down, watch out for Spurs AND West Ham next season.
I don't think they ever thought they were relegation fodder - but then, neither did I, so I'm not sure what "view" of mine they were supposed to share. If you're zeroing in on the word "inevitability", you are reading what I've written wrong. You've said that it's inevitable for another small market team from the lower part of the division to win the league in the coming five or ten seasons and I'm saying that simply isn't true. Although, I'll be happy to eat my words if Sunderland win it in the next few seasons. I'm just not going to hold my breath for them doing that.

As far as winning the title, Leicester actually did share my view. It wasn't until the last month of the season that Ranieri began talking about winning it. Leicester's humility and a realistic take on what they were about to achieve (the whole taking it one match at a time and not getting ahead of themselves book of cliches which rang true for once) was what drew most of the casual fans to them and what made the non-casuals respect them so much. The problem with small-market team success is that it makes them visible - and it's a good and a bad problem to have all at once. What made Leicester the insanely atypical success story they've become was the fact that they are anything but a traditional powerhouse, nor are they assembled in a way an Arsenal or a Chelsea generally tend to be. And now that they have achieved what they've done, vultures will be circling: already Vardy is in talks of a move to Arsenal (a horrible idea for his career progression, in my opinion) and Mahrez and Kante are also being headhunted by the "traditional" top clubs. Should they lose their core players, they will be forced to buy replacements (and a good number of them if they are to have any hope of even making it out of the group in CL), which inevitably signals a rebuilding process. A drop-off is, sadly, inevitable in these circumstances. I doubt they will fall below the top-8, but picking them to win the EPL again next year would be another long shot.

As for Spurs and West Ham - if you read another thread on this subforum, you'll see that I've picked the Spurs to win it next year. But don't kid yourself - both teams have made marquee signings over the past few seasons (Payet, Ericksen, Lamela), nor are they teams that have traditionally occupied the bottom 25% of the league (West Ham's relegation - and immediate promotion - a few seasons ago notwithstanding), so your comparing them to Leicester is moot. Yes, they've spent within their means, but then what did you even mean by "simply build a Premier League winning team at a price you can afford"? I don't think you'd argue that Manchester City or Manchester united cannot afford the hundreds of millions of pounds they've spent on talent in the past few seasons. It's the question of what talent arrives at that price, not of what they can afford.

And I'm still waiting on an answer about another team bar Nott'm Forest and Blackburn achieving what Leicester have done this season.

Last edited by highlanderfil; 06-05-2016 at 08:01 AM..
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Old 06-07-2016, 01:36 AM
 
Location: SE UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highlanderfil View Post
I don't think they ever thought they were relegation fodder - but then, neither did I, so I'm not sure what "view" of mine they were supposed to share. If you're zeroing in on the word "inevitability", you are reading what I've written wrong. You've said that it's inevitable for another small market team from the lower part of the division to win the league in the coming five or ten seasons and I'm saying that simply isn't true. Although, I'll be happy to eat my words if Sunderland win it in the next few seasons. I'm just not going to hold my breath for them doing that.

As far as winning the title, Leicester actually did share my view. It wasn't until the last month of the season that Ranieri began talking about winning it. Leicester's humility and a realistic take on what they were about to achieve (the whole taking it one match at a time and not getting ahead of themselves book of cliches which rang true for once) was what drew most of the casual fans to them and what made the non-casuals respect them so much. The problem with small-market team success is that it makes them visible - and it's a good and a bad problem to have all at once. What made Leicester the insanely atypical success story they've become was the fact that they are anything but a traditional powerhouse, nor are they assembled in a way an Arsenal or a Chelsea generally tend to be. And now that they have achieved what they've done, vultures will be circling: already Vardy is in talks of a move to Arsenal (a horrible idea for his career progression, in my opinion) and Mahrez and Kante are also being headhunted by the "traditional" top clubs. Should they lose their core players, they will be forced to buy replacements (and a good number of them if they are to have any hope of even making it out of the group in CL), which inevitably signals a rebuilding process. A drop-off is, sadly, inevitable in these circumstances. I doubt they will fall below the top-8, but picking them to win the EPL again next year would be another long shot.

As for Spurs and West Ham - if you read another thread on this subforum, you'll see that I've picked the Spurs to win it next year. But don't kid yourself - both teams have made marquee signings over the past few seasons (Payet, Ericksen, Lamela), nor are they teams that have traditionally occupied the bottom 25% of the league (West Ham's relegation - and immediate promotion - a few seasons ago notwithstanding), so your comparing them to Leicester is moot. Yes, they've spent within their means, but then what did you even mean by "simply build a Premier League winning team at a price you can afford"? I don't think you'd argue that Manchester City or Manchester united cannot afford the hundreds of millions of pounds they've spent on talent in the past few seasons. It's the question of what talent arrives at that price, not of what they can afford.

And I'm still waiting on an answer about another team bar Nott'm Forest and Blackburn achieving what Leicester have done this season.
I don't believe I said that at all did I!!???
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Old 06-07-2016, 11:07 AM
 
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Originally Posted by easthome View Post
I don't believe I said that at all did I!!???
I'm sorry, how else was I to interpret
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Originally Posted by easthome View Post
Nobody said it was simple, its happened before Leicester and it will happen again.
?
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Old 06-08-2016, 01:47 AM
 
Location: SE UK
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Originally Posted by highlanderfil View Post
I'm sorry, how else was I to interpret?
I never said it was 'inevitable that it would happen within the coming 5 or 10 seasons' like you suggested, I said it could happen within 5, 10, 20 etc years and I stick by this, there is no reason why an un-fancied club can put together a good team to challenge for or even win the league, its happened before and it WILL happen again. It is impossible to predict which club and when though. What has made Bournemouth a premier league club and not say Gillingham (probably two similar 'sized' clubs), the simple fact that Bournemouth have managed to put together a 'Premier League' quality team, there is no reason why Gillingham couldn't do the same thing - it is of course bloody hard and competitive everybody is trying to do it.


If you are interested for historical examples may I suggest you go to the European Football Statistics website, it has the complete history of English football (and not just English) there including the historical performance and yearly attendance of every English club, I think its interesting and it will probably throw you a few surprises.
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Old 06-09-2016, 07:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by easthome View Post
I never said it was 'inevitable that it would happen within the coming 5 or 10 seasons' like you suggested, I said it could happen within 5, 10, 20 etc years
Conceded.
Quote:
If you are interested for historical examples may I suggest you go to the European Football Statistics website, it has the complete history of English football (and not just English) there including the historical performance and yearly attendance of every English club, I think its interesting and it will probably throw you a few surprises.
Got it. So that basically tells me that there's nothing but supposition and wishful thinking behind your "it could happen" statement. I can use the Internet just as well as the next guy, thank you. I was just hoping that you would actually make an attempt at backing up your argument and you seem to have no interest in doing so.
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Old 06-09-2016, 07:35 AM
 
Location: SE UK
7,879 posts, read 6,686,591 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highlanderfil View Post
I'm well aware, but if you are such an EPL history buff, why don't you enlighten us as to the last time a team that was promoted two seasons prior and barely escaped relegation in their first season up won the league while spending 1/4 of what the "regular" top clubs of that time period?

I'm not saying it won't happen, I'm just saying that calling it an inevitability in today's footballing environment is, at best, wishful thinking.
There is 150 years history of English football and dozens of clubs, I've given you the web page, European Football Statistics you look it up!! Perhaps you could come back and post every clubs historical record so we can 'discuss' it? The season before last I spent hours arguing with a Spurs fan who decided that they would NEVER challenge for the league title because they weren't in the 'elite' clubs, it took less than a year before he was proved wrong! It might just be that you are proved wrong next season too, we shall have to wait and see.
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Old 06-12-2016, 08:31 AM
 
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Originally Posted by easthome View Post
There is 150 years history of English football and dozens of clubs, I've given you the web page, European Football Statistics you look it up!! Perhaps you could come back and post every clubs historical record so we can 'discuss' it?
It doesn't work this way. You can't make an assertion and then, when asked to back your statement up, say "go look it up".
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Old 06-12-2016, 11:07 AM
 
Location: SE UK
7,879 posts, read 6,686,591 times
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Originally Posted by highlanderfil View Post
It doesn't work this way. You can't make an assertion and then, when asked to back your statement up, say "go look it up".
I don't see why not, I am not spending hours trawling through, you go and look it up and then we will discuss.
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