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Old 11-29-2013, 12:14 PM
 
Location: SE UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH View Post
When England won all those tournaments? You should draw up a list on a postage stamp so we can all be in awe.

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Nevertheless its very convenient of you to completely ignore the first 80 years of the game isn't it - football has been around a lot longer than 1990 you know. I bet you're the sort of person to claim that Messi is better than Pele just because he is from your time.
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Old 11-29-2013, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Tejas
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Show me all the stuff they won in the 80 years.
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Old 11-29-2013, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Utica, NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH View Post
Show me all the stuff they won in the 80 years.
England have always had a pretty mediocre record. It could be forgiven with at least a few more semi final or runner up places. Their record in the European Championships is abysmal. 2006 was a year that England were probably at their best squad wise. Both Lampard and Gerrard were in their prime.
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Old 11-30-2013, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Scotland
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England are better historically than people are giving them credit for, and that is from a Scot. No they aren't a powerhouse but they gave the world the game, produced players like Gasgoigne, Lineker, Moore, Jimmy Greaves and the like, won a world cup etc. Are they a Germany or a Argentina? No. Are they a Denmark or a Poland? No. Do they still have a decent team? Yes. Will they win the big tournements anytime soon? No. They are what they are.
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Old 12-01-2013, 11:25 AM
 
Location: London
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paull805 View Post
England are better historically than people are giving them credit for, and that is from a Scot. No they aren't a powerhouse but they gave the world the game, produced players like Gasgoigne, Lineker, Moore, Jimmy Greaves and the like, won a world cup etc. Are they a Germany or a Argentina? No. Are they a Denmark or a Poland? No. Do they still have a decent team? Yes. Will they win the big tournements anytime soon? No. They are what they are.
Only one team can ever win the World Cup. Scotland have had some good sides over the years especially in 1978 and 1986. A pretty decent side in 1990 too.

Ireland had one great side in the 1988 European Championship with the likes of Ray Houghton, Ronnie Whelan and John Aldridge (who also had a great career in Spain with Real Sociedad) adding a touch of genuine quality to their full on pressing game dependent on a frenetic pace and robust physicality. They beat England, drew with a great USSR side and were cruelly undone by a last minute winner against the brilliant Dutch side who went on to win the tournament in fabulous style against the Russians who beat them at the group stage.

The last England side to have performed well on the major stage was the England side of 98 under Hoddle. It was also the only tournament where Beckham performed and I think their 2-1 defeat of Columbia was perhaps his finest game as an international. The Argentina game in the second round was a great game and England were unlucky not to win that game. Michael Owen scored a spectacular individual goal, Beckham was harshly sent off for a petulant flick of the boot and Sol Campbell had a perfectly good header ruled out in extra-time.

Other than that World Cup 90 probably saw England's best performance since 66. With Waddle, Gazza and Lineker they matched the Germans for 90 minutes and both teams hit the post in extra time, Waddle very unlucky indeed. Belgium had a good side that World Cup and England were lucky to win though the last minute volley from David Platt was a goal of great composure and technique.

There is an element of truth to the general consensus that England have failed to produce in recent years and the Lampard/Gerard era and team of 2006 were not a side that deserved the 'golden era' tag that the media placed upon them.

Overall I think England's main strength has been their rugged physicality and playing the game with power, speed and pace as English players tend to lack the composure and technique of their Dutch, Italian, Spanish and South American counterparts.

Of course South America only have two sides that have regularly produced at international level in Brazil and Argentina. I think the South American sides have suffered from having so many players in European leagues. The Brazilian team with Romario up front was the last Brazilian side that I enjoyed to watch as they possessed a great deal of flair and technical ability.

England on a par with Denmark Well Denmark had a great side in 1986 and of course Brian and Michael Laudrap were astonishingly talented players. Considering they won a major trophy in recent years and England haven't I'd say that's a fair comparison.

If you can't point to one tournament in nearly 20 years where England have produced then you have to concede they belong in the good but not amazing second tier of international football along with the Swedens, Belgiums and Denmarks of this world etc...

As for the years before England entered the World Cup (making the arrogant presumption there wasn't a team that could challenge them) well they were taught a footballing lesson by Hungary and were beaten by an entirely amateur United States team 1-0 when they first entered the competition in 1950.

To summarise England have 1966, they have Gazza's tears and a quite a few inevitable penalty shoot-out losses to about. You can say losing a penalty shoot-out is a roll of the dice but it really isn't. Composure under pressure+technique from twelve yards is a major part of the professional game.

And compared to their continental counterparts England have repeatedly been found wanting.
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Old 12-01-2013, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Scotland
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No I mean are they as good as a Argentina. No. Are they as poor as a Denmark. No.
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Old 12-01-2013, 11:35 AM
 
Location: London
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The current Denmark side perhaps. The Denmark side that won the European Championship however would beg to differ and England haven't got past the quarter-final stage since Euro 96 on home soil so I'm afraid they do belong where they are currently ranked. Amongst world football's second tier.
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Old 12-01-2013, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Scotland
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Well then by your way of thinking England world cup winning team would beg to differ. And yeah I made it clear they aare 2nd tier. Only a select few are top tier.
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Old 12-01-2013, 04:37 PM
 
Location: London
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paull805 View Post
Well then by your way of thinking England world cup winning team would beg to differ. And yeah I made it clear they aare 2nd tier. Only a select few are top tier.
As would the Uruguayan sides of 1930 and 1950 but if we were to contrast Denmark's record against England's in the modern era then unfortunately England fans cannot live on 1966 forever. If it wasn't for that Russian linesman they wouldn't even have won that.

As for top tier there are an abundance of quality sides I would place above England in quality. Chile recently outclassed England at Wembley and even though it may of been an experimental side Chile were experimenting too and they were a class apart on the night. Ireland even gained a draw and we have a very average side at present.

I'd say there were more than a few who were top tier. A few would seem to indicate three or four but Spain, Italy, France, Holland, Belgium, Germany, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Ecuador and Portugal are all better international sides than England right now.

I'd say England are a cut above Scotland but have only one truly world class player in Rooney. The rest are too old and the likes of Andros Townsend have a long way to develop. They have plenty of sturdy, reliable and good players but Gerrard is no longer world class and Lampard is well past his sell by date.

Secpnd round exit beckons for England. They will find conditions in South America too stifling and will crash. But on the bright side at least expectations are low. They should play Lennon on the right in my opinion, very underated in my opinion.
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Old 12-01-2013, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Scotland
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France? Ecuador?

You sure about that?

France barely scrapped into the world cup. I would say France are on par with England - but they have a better recent history. They have better players overall but we all know that doesn't equate to better as a team and national side.
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