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This is so ridiculous. Gridiron fans do care. They wouldn't troll soccer forums, call soccer fans "snobs", or rag on the sport as though it were a foreign cancer.
The thing that boggles my mind is gridiron fans really think their opinions about soccer actually matter and don't see them as irrelevant and ignorant. I'm talking really ignorant and proud of it. Its an extension of the awful mentality that 'Murica is the best country and saves the world all the time when everyone in the room knows it's not true and only makes you look foolish.
People around the world used to international football aren't snobs for seeing the flaws in American football. They're not insecure or incapable of letting other people enjoy their sport. They just see clearly see that its pure entertainment more than an athletic competition. They see that there are only 11-13 total mins of actual gameplay, the know that advertisers milk the hell outta that extra time, they see that its a giant corporate money making venture that serves a purely spectator sport. They see the ridiculousness of calling the winners of the Super Bowl "world champions" when no other teams around the world compete.
And so on and so on.....
"We" as in Americans in general. Not just one specific group.
See, again, you're taking it TOO personal and letting the actions of a few people dictate your view of ALL fans of the sport. Everything you mentioned about the naming of the sport, what Americans call their championship games, other interests in other countries... none of it matters. NONE of it.
Stop stereotyping and putting everyone in the same category. It's showing that you're really not that much different in that aspect.
"We" as in Americans in general. Not just one specific group.
See, again, you're taking it TOO personal and letting the actions of a few people dictate your view of ALL fans of the sport. Everything you mentioned about the naming of the sport, what Americans call their championship games, other interests in other countries... none of it matters. NONE of it.
Stop stereotyping and putting everyone in the same category. It's showing that you're really not that much different in that aspect.
First off, I am a football fan, a college football fan. Mostly because it's less of a commercial fiasco and has more storied teams with a lot of tradition and history. I'm a huge fan of the Longhorns. I also like the Aggies historical traditions even though I'm not a fan of their team. The sport is just ten times better without the super corporate spectacle of the NFL. Sure it's still similar but I just find most NFL games unbearable.
Besides the actual game itself, playing it either live or on a video game console doesn't bother me one bit. I don't think it bothers anyone. What does bothers people is that the NFL games just seem like such ridiculous over the top corporate sponsored spectacles and Americans eat that up like its butter while criticizing a much beloved sport played all around the world.
Ann Coulter is ofcourse a nut job but she does bring up a good point. Unfortunately for the quest to strengthend the game here in America International Football is in many ways so different from all popular American team sports that it's kind of hard to get accustomed to for one with American sport sensibilities.
I for one am a passionate American Football fan but I have for a very long time also liked International Football and wished it would take hold in America.
Yes, I truly believe you don't have to be either or.
The same way England can support Football and Rugby I think it's possible for America to support both footballs and for some to even be fans of both at the same time. This was demonstrated most strongly during the World Cup when many of my friends and co workers who are real American Football fans were very much into soccer.
But I must admit they are totally night and day different in many ways. You can't enjoy one with the mentality of the other in your head sort of like you can't go enjoy a wine bar expecting it to be just like drinking at a beer garden.
I literally have to cut my American Football mind off while watching soccer. (Don't have to do the reverse with American Football because I've been into it all my life).
American Football is like a crecendo. Scores and achievements build up and build up until your gains either exceed your opponents or not leading to victory or defeat. In Soccer it's more like you steadily apply pressure and absorb pressure from the other team until something gives one way or the other. This happens once or maybe two or three times leading to victory (or not).
In American Football you possess the ball long enough for a little mini campaign where you get to try and execute an invasion of the other teams territory. You get to execute a ton of strategic plays and tactics in some of these campaigns.
In Soccer possession is much more tenuous, most only lasting a few seconds. Instead of a series of campaigns it's more like just one long orchestrated struggle. You have to learn to appreciate things like form and spacing things that are much more abstract than the X and O's of American Football plays.
American Football is territorial in that it's a game of yards. You can judge how well a team is doing by how many yards they gain against the opposing team which usually leads to more shots at the other teams in zone. Soccer is also a territorial game but it's more a game of space. You can tell how well a team is playing by how much space on the pitch they are able to freely move the ball about without being challenged and losing possession which usually leads to more set ups for shots on goal.
I know we're supposed to have evolved beyond this and some will hate me for admitting this but one of the joys of American Football is that if the stars are perfectly aligned and everything right not only do you get to see your team defeat that rival opponent that you hate so much but you get to see them physically beat them up in the process which is soooo satisfying.
Soccer is more physical than most give it credit but it takes perfect timing to physically push another team around or physically intimidate them else you will hurt your own team more than you hurt the opposing team due to penalty kicks, yellow and red cards etc.
In American Football I'm paying attention to all the individual battles and matchups going on. Receivers vs. Backs, O-Line vs D-Line, Q- Back vs. rushers. etc. etc.
In soccer I'm concentrating on matchups but more on how the team on offensive is stringing their passes together, how they coordinate and time everything to take advantage of the other teams spacing. On defensive how well they mark their assignments and cut off or counter the other teams movement.
Soccer crowd noise: For morale and inspiration of team. Very entertaining with lots of singing. American Football crowd noise: For morale but also very strategic. Smartly timed can critically disrupt opponents communication leading to a breakdown in their offensives.
International Football is Real Time. American Football is Incremental.
In military strategy:
American Football: Think conventional war campaign like Battle of Normandy or Battle of the Bulge.
International Football: Think two guerrilla forces battling against each other until one succeeds in blowing up the others Headquarters.
All in all I can dig both.
Last edited by Galounger; 08-06-2014 at 10:50 PM..
Seems typical of the talking heads in the media to pick some aspect or pastime of society and then whip up a vendetta against it so that she has something to write about. When I was young, I could only bear to watch the second half of a soccer game (and I had to be stoned to do that). This is just aother opinion piece by Ann Coulter. So she doesn't like soccer...big effing deal!
What next? She's going to devote a blog to her dislike of mac and cheese? Ridiculous woman!
Ann Coulter is ofcourse a nut job but she does bring up a good point. Unfortunately for the quest to strengthend the game here in America International Football is in many ways so different from all popular American team sports that it's kind of hard to get accustomed to for one with American sport sensibilities.
I for one am a passionate American Football fan but I have for a very long time also liked International Football and wished it would take hold in America.
Yes, I truly believe you don't have to be either or.
The same way England can support Football and Rugby I think it's possible for America to support both footballs and for some to even be fans of both at the same time. This was demonstrated most strongly during the World Cup when many of my friends and co workers who are real American Football fans were very much into soccer.
But I must admit they are totally night and day different in many ways. You can't enjoy one with the mentality of the other in your head sort of like you can't go enjoy a wine bar expecting it to be just like drinking at a beer garden.
I literally have to cut my American Football mind off while watching soccer. (Don't have to do the reverse with American Football because I've been into it all my life).
American Football is like a crecendo. Scores and achievements build up and build up until your gains either exceed your opponents or not leading to victory or defeat. In Soccer it's more like you steadily apply pressure and absorb pressure from the other team until something gives one way or the other. This happens once or maybe two or three times leading to victory (or not).
In American Football you possess the ball long enough for a little mini campaign where you get to try and execute an invasion of the other teams territory. You get to execute a ton of strategic plays and tactics in some of these campaigns.
In Soccer possession is much more tenuous, most only lasting a few seconds. Instead of a series of campaigns it's more like just one long orchestrated struggle. You have to learn to appreciate things like form and spacing things that are much more abstract than the X and O's of American Football plays.
American Football is territorial in that it's a game of yards. You can judge how well a team is doing by how many yards they gain against the opposing team which usually leads to more shots at the other teams in zone. Soccer is also a territorial game but it's more a game of space. You can tell how well a team is playing by how much space on the pitch they are able to freely move the ball about without being challenged and losing possession which usually leads to more set ups for shots on goal.
I know we're supposed to have evolved beyond this and some will hate me for admitting this but one of the joys of American Football is that if the stars are perfectly aligned and everything right not only do you get to see your team defeat that rival opponent that you hate so much but you get to see them physically beat them up in the process which is soooo satisfying.
Soccer is more physical than most give it credit but it takes perfect timing to physically push another team around or physically intimidate them else you will hurt your own team more than you hurt the opposing team due to penalty kicks, yellow and red cards etc.
In American Football I'm paying attention to all the individual battles and matchups going on. Receivers vs. Backs, O-Line vs D-Line, Q- Back vs. rushers. etc. etc.
In soccer I'm concentrating on matchups but more on how the team on offensive is stringing their passes together, how they coordinate and time everything to take advantage of the other teams spacing. On defensive how well they mark their assignments and cut off or counter the other teams movement.
Soccer crowd noise: For morale and inspiration of team. Very entertaining with lots of singing. American Football crowd noise: For morale but also very strategic. Smartly timed can critically disrupt opponents communication leading to a breakdown in their offensives.
International Football is Real Time. American Football is Incremental.
In military strategy:
American Football: Think conventional war campaign like Battle of Normandy or Battle of the Bulge.
International Football: Think two guerrilla forces battling against each other until one succeeds in blowing up the others Headquarters.
All in all I can dig both.
Excellent post. I agree, American football is more like WWII with an American general and a Nazi general are commanding their troops in battle. It's advertisements are literally like big giant WWII propaganda that tug at emotion and calls for glory.
International football is like the Cold War, with two competing guerrilla armies battling until one captures the capital. It's ads and commercial appeal are very populist, like left wing propaganda campaign posters of the Cold War era. You see the best players face plastered on walls like the famous Che Guevara portrait.
Ann Coulter is ofcourse a nut job but she does bring up a good point. Unfortunately for the quest to strengthend the game here in America International Football is in many ways so different from all popular American team sports that it's kind of hard to get accustomed to for one with American sport sensibilities..
So, I guess that may explain why there is always someone here defending gridiron while soccer fans don't really land in the football forum? Of course they care.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galounger
In Soccer it's more like you steadily apply pressure and absorb pressure from the other team until something gives one way or the other. This happens once or maybe two or three times leading to victory (or not).
Your post is good but I can't help it to notice that some football fans who start liking soccer don't quite understand the dynamics of the game. Pressure in soccer is not often steady. Teams have to adapt to their opponents change in dynamics on the fly more often than not. They often find more or less resitance to their tactics and they have to change and adapt in order to find spaces to score or defend. Defending, sometimes, is all a team can hope for against a strong opponent. This past WC showed plenty of that, because that's the direction modern soccer is going with the rise of tactical collective power from the less traditional teams. Netherlands was the most classic example, especially against Mexico. Van Gaal is a master of creating different scenarious for the players to adpat to the changing needs of the game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galounger
In Soccer possession is much more tenuous, most only lasting a few seconds. Instead of a series of campaigns it's more like just one long orchestrated struggle. You have to learn to appreciate things like form and spacing things that are much more abstract than the X and O's of American Football plays.
Not necessarily true, tiki-taka Spain was able to keep possesion for several minutes all the time, to a point I consider exageration. But you really can't have good chances of winning a soccer game unless you hold decent possesion, hence the biggest problem of the US team in Brazil.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galounger
Soccer is more physical than most give it credit but it takes perfect timing to physically push another team around or physically intimidate them else you will hurt your own team more than you hurt the opposing team due to penalty kicks, yellow and red cards etc.
Yes, there is phycicality in soccer, but with rules limiting it. It is true referee calls are somewhat subjective on their judgment of the rules governing physicality and I know that drives some of the football fans crazy, but that is a flaw true soccer fans either understand or enjoy, no kidding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galounger
Soccer crowd noise: For morale and inspiration of team. Very entertaining with lots of singing.
If you ever have a chance to go to the stadium and watch 2 major rivals play in South America, say a game of Copa Libertadores, or finals of the Argentinan or Brazilian championships, you will never forget the crowd. It's staggering, beautiful chants and deafening cheer plus all the huge flags and show of colors. I imagine games between big rivals in Europe are the same, but I have not had a chance to go there yet.
[Your post is good but I can't help it to notice that some football fans who start liking soccer don't quite understand the dynamics of the game. Pressure in soccer is not often steady. Teams have to adapt to their opponents change in dynamics on the fly more often than not. They often find more or less resitance to their tactics and they have to change and adapt in order to find spaces to score or defend. Defending, sometimes, is all a team can hope for against a strong opponent. This past WC showed plenty of that, because that's the direction modern soccer is going with the rise of tactical collective power from the less traditional teams. Netherlands was the most classic example, especially against Mexico. Van Gaal is a master of creating different scenarious for the players to adpat to the changing needs of the game.
Yes, I knew most of what you stated but I grossly oversimplified both International and American Football in an effort to not make my post too outrageously long. I understand that in International like in basketball one starts out with a general game plan and as the game proceeds they gauge the tendecies and weaknesses of the opponent and make changes on the fly. I often think of International Football as basketball on grass (with dribbling, passing and shooting done with the feet instead of hands ofcourse). There really are a lot of similarities like the zone and man to man defenses, passing coordinated with running to draw opponents out of position and open space to set up goals, the frequent change of possession and other stuff.
This stuff happens in American Football as well BTW. But in comparison to Soccer and Basketball it is much more planned out ahead of time as opposed to on the fly.
[
Quote:
Not necessarily true, tiki-taka Spain was able to keep possession for several minutes all the time, to a point I consider exaggeration. But you really can't have good chances of winning a soccer game unless you hold decent possession, hence the biggest problem of the US team in Brazil.
I wasn't saying that the total possession time of a good team wasn't long. But each separate possession by a team tends to be very short in comparison to American Football. Now.. the question is. What in the world can America do to increase it's time of possession?! It seemed Germany would hold the ball an eternity in comparison to them. And made it look easy.
Quote:
Yes, there is phycicality in soccer, but with rules limiting it. It is true referee calls are somewhat subjective on their judgment of the rules governing physicality and I know that drives some of the football fans crazy, but that is a flaw true soccer fans either understand or enjoy, no kidding
.
Refs often drive fans crazy in American Football as well but it seems in International Football there's always just a millimeter or microsecond between any contact being legal or illegal.
Quote:
If you ever have a chance to go to the stadium and watch 2 major rivals play in South America, say a game of Copa Libertadores, or finals of the Argentinan or Brazilian championships, you will never forget the crowd. It's staggering, beautiful chants and deafening cheer plus all the huge flags and show of colors. I imagine games between big rivals in Europe are the same, but I have not had a chance to go there yet.
I could imagine. I like how in English Premiership League every teams fans have their own songs and chants even if I can't understand a word they are saying when I watch on TV.
Last edited by Galounger; 08-07-2014 at 04:42 PM..
Yes, I knew most of what you stated but I grossly oversimplified both International and American Football in an effort to not make my post too outrageously long. I understand that in International like in basketball one starts out with a general game plan and as the game proceeds they gauge the tendecies and weaknesses of the opponent and make changes on the fly. I often think of International Football as basketball on grass (with dribbling, passing and shooting done with the feet instead of hands ofcourse). There really are a lot of similarities like the zone and man to man defenses, passing coordinated with running to draw opponents out of position and open space to set up goals, the frequent change of possession and other stuff.
This stuff happens in American Football as well BTW. But in comparison to Soccer and Basketball it is much more planned out ahead of time as opposed to on the fly.
[
I wasn't saying that the total possession time of a good team wasn't long. But each separate possession by a team tends to be very short in comparison to American Football. Now.. the question is. What in the world can America do to increase it's time of possession?! It seemed Germany would hold the ball an eternity in comparison to them. And made it look easy.
.
Refs often drive fans crazy in American Football as well but it seems in International Football there's always just a millimeter or microsecond between any contact being legal or illegal.
I could imagine. I like how in English Premiership League every teams fans have their own songs and chants even if I can't understand a word they are saying when I watch on TV.
I can't always hear on the TV, but at the games it is much clearer.. I love the chants in EPL games, some of them are great! The referee's a ****ker is one of my favourite ones
Hi Galounger, I suspected you were just simplifying your post to avoid being too long, but wasn't sure, hence my detailed responses, but I agree with you.
Regarding your comment: What in the world can America do to increase it's time of possession?! It seemed Germany would hold the ball an eternity in comparison to them. And made it look easy.
In my opinion, the US has the tactical discipline, fitness and reasonable skills required to do better in the World Cup but it's missing 2-3 high quality players in the midfield or mid-forward to hold decent possession and create. I think the US should focus on trying to identify such potential players to fill this gap in the near future by preparing them to serve the National team as team leaders. That said, I'm not sure Jurgen is the best coach for the team honestly. Some experts claim he is too focused in physical strength in favor of tactical training. That's the main criticism he got when coaching Bayern. I thought he made a big mistake not bringing Landon. He may not be as fit as Jurgen wished but he would bring a lot of experience and confidence to the team, and possibly help with the possession problem.
Hi Galounger, I suspected you were just simplifying your post to avoid being too long, but wasn't sure, hence my detailed responses, but I agree with you.
Regarding your comment: What in the world can America do to increase it's time of possession?! It seemed Germany would hold the ball an eternity in comparison to them. And made it look easy.
In my opinion, the US has the tactical discipline, fitness and reasonable skills required to do better in the World Cup but it's missing 2-3 high quality players in the midfield or mid-forward to hold decent possession and create. I think the US should focus on trying to identify such potential players to fill this gap in the near future by preparing them to serve the National team as team leaders. That said, I'm not sure Jurgen is the best coach for the team honestly. Some experts claim he is too focused in physical strength in favor of tactical training. That's the main criticism he got when coaching Bayern. I thought he made a big mistake not bringing Landon. He may not be as fit as Jurgen wished but he would bring a lot of experience and confidence to the team, and possibly help with the possession problem.
I don't it's wise for America to have at this point a coach that focus's on physical strength. Our players aren't very big. Somewhat small actually compared to the Dutch and German. They are scrappy and tough I give them that but like the Atlanta Falcons in American Football that only could get them so far. Eventually they would get shoved around by a team that's equally fit and tough but bigger.
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